What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?

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What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« on: June 12, 2012, 08:55:35 AM »
I'm going to come out and say that I'm not an FET proponent. I'm a physicist and it flies in the face of, well, basically everything I know. I'm not here to make fun, I'm not here to incite anger, I'm here to ask what specific evidence would you, personally, accept that would shun your beliefs in FET? If someone proved to you that the moon were actually ~240000 miles away instead of 3000, would that do it? If someone were to take you into orbit and you personally saw that you could only see ~1/2 of the planet's landmass in one go, would that do it? If neither of those, what would?

Thanks for your time.

Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 09:06:11 AM »
These people dont really believe that the earth is flat. They simply argue that the earth is flat to improve their debate skills, but you'll never hear that from them.

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 10:05:29 AM »
Despite LolaBunny's mockery and closed mindedness, TFES is actually open to all theories, both conventional and alternative, to describe the physics of the Earth and the universe. 

The question as to what would it take to convince me that Earth is spherical is a little hard to answer.  It would be like me asking you what it would take to convince you that red is really green.  You could try to convince to me that the moon landings were real, I suppose.  Or, you could prove to me that the government has never lied to me.  I really do not know for sure what would convince me of anything that I have not been convinced of before now.

Going into orbit, if possible, would definitely be fun though, no matter how unlikely.  However, seeing only a portion of the Earth would not likely convince me that the Earth is a globe, considering that it is common knowledge that only a portion of the Earth is lit by the sun at any given time.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 10:18:59 AM by jroa »

Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 10:18:44 AM »
I believe it would spending a a fair amount time in space. Peforming many Zetetic Experiments, and on the very slight chance it is determined that the earth is something else than planar, I may start to question the validity of its shape.

Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 10:25:14 AM »
Going into orbit, if possible, would definitely be fun though, no matter how unlikely.  However, seeing only a portion of the Earth would not likely convince me that the Earth is a globe, considering that it is common knowledge that only a portion of the Earth is lit by the sun at any given time.

Let's take this image for example, say you saw this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg

I'm not saying this is necessarily real, but say you saw this. You can only see a couple continents, some obvious curvature, and black (or presumably stars) around the edges. If the sun were only illuminating part of the earth, the parts that were dark would still be obscuring the stars behind it/you'd be able to see city lights and stuff. If you saw that, would that be convincing?

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 10:41:04 AM »
If the sun were only illuminating part of the earth, the parts that were dark would still be obscuring the stars behind it/you'd be able to see city lights and stuff. If you saw that, would that be convincing?

If I were to see stars around an apparently disk shaped object that is claimed to be the Earth, I might consider that possibly the object is circular and not infinite.  I have yet to see such a picture, though.

Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 11:17:21 AM »
If the sun were only illuminating part of the earth, the parts that were dark would still be obscuring the stars behind it/you'd be able to see city lights and stuff. If you saw that, would that be convincing?

If I were to see stars around an apparently disk shaped object that is claimed to be the Earth, I might consider that possibly the object is circular and not infinite.  I have yet to see such a picture, though.

I want to push you a bit on this; why would it only make you consider the possibility and not convince you fairly solidly? Like I said, I don't believe in FET but if I went up in a rocket and went up and up and up and all I saw was land expanding out in all directions my belief in the spherical-ish Earth with 13,000 km diameter would be pretty darn shaken.

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Mizuki

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2012, 12:16:32 PM »
I'm going to come out and say that I'm not an FET proponent. I'm a physicist and it flies in the face of, well, basically everything I know. I'm not here to make fun, I'm not here to incite anger, I'm here to ask what specific evidence would you, personally, accept that would shun your beliefs in FET? If someone proved to you that the moon were actually ~240000 miles away instead of 3000, would that do it? If someone were to take you into orbit and you personally saw that you could only see ~1/2 of the planet's landmass in one go, would that do it? If neither of those, what would?

Thanks for your time.

Good question - and nicely put.

I belieue that the true nature of the earth is something that can only be "realised".

I understand that this is not going to go down well with someone with a background in physics and i am leauing myself wide open to the charge of "cop out".

There is nothing that could conuince me that the earth is globe shaped simply because it absolutely is not globe shaped.

Mizuki x
"Earth is a maximal sphere in a cyclical space and its surface therefore a total plane, the equator plane of the Cosmos. The (total) plane, as well as the straight line and space as a whole, is flat, without curvature yet closed, running back on itself."

Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 01:22:56 PM »
I'm going to come out and say that I'm not an FET proponent. I'm a physicist and it flies in the face of, well, basically everything I know. I'm not here to make fun, I'm not here to incite anger, I'm here to ask what specific evidence would you, personally, accept that would shun your beliefs in FET? If someone proved to you that the moon were actually ~240000 miles away instead of 3000, would that do it? If someone were to take you into orbit and you personally saw that you could only see ~1/2 of the planet's landmass in one go, would that do it? If neither of those, what would?

Thanks for your time.

Good question - and nicely put.

I belieue that the true nature of the earth is something that can only be "realised".

I understand that this is not going to go down well with someone with a background in physics and i am leauing myself wide open to the charge of "cop out".

There is nothing that could conuince me that the earth is globe shaped simply because it absolutely is not globe shaped.

Mizuki x

This could be the scientist in me talking, but isn't it a bit close-minded to ignore evidence? I'm talking about a hypothetical here: Imagine a situation where the Earth is in fact a globe. You currently do not believe this and you have your reasons for such but let's agree, for the sake of argument, that it is a globe. What evidence could you be presented with to dissuade you from your line of thinking?

?

Mizuki

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 02:48:08 PM »
I'm going to come out and say that I'm not an FET proponent. I'm a physicist and it flies in the face of, well, basically everything I know. I'm not here to make fun, I'm not here to incite anger, I'm here to ask what specific evidence would you, personally, accept that would shun your beliefs in FET? If someone proved to you that the moon were actually ~240000 miles away instead of 3000, would that do it? If someone were to take you into orbit and you personally saw that you could only see ~1/2 of the planet's landmass in one go, would that do it? If neither of those, what would?

Thanks for your time.

Good question - and nicely put.

I belieue that the true nature of the earth is something that can only be "realised".

I understand that this is not going to go down well with someone with a background in physics and i am leauing myself wide open to the charge of "cop out".

There is nothing that could conuince me that the earth is globe shaped simply because it absolutely is not globe shaped.

Mizuki x

This could be the scientist in me talking, but isn't it a bit close-minded to ignore evidence? I'm talking about a hypothetical here: Imagine a situation where the Earth is in fact a globe. You currently do not believe this and you have your reasons for such but let's agree, for the sake of argument, that it is a globe. What evidence could you be presented with to dissuade you from your line of thinking?

GENUINE continuous and unbroken footage taken from the ISS of a complete earth orbit.

Mizuki x
"Earth is a maximal sphere in a cyclical space and its surface therefore a total plane, the equator plane of the Cosmos. The (total) plane, as well as the straight line and space as a whole, is flat, without curvature yet closed, running back on itself."

?

Cat Earth Theory

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 03:26:04 PM »
I'm going to come out and say that I'm not an FET proponent. I'm a physicist and it flies in the face of, well, basically everything I know. I'm not here to make fun, I'm not here to incite anger, I'm here to ask what specific evidence would you, personally, accept that would shun your beliefs in FET? If someone proved to you that the moon were actually ~240000 miles away instead of 3000, would that do it? If someone were to take you into orbit and you personally saw that you could only see ~1/2 of the planet's landmass in one go, would that do it? If neither of those, what would?

Thanks for your time.

Good question - and nicely put.

I belieue that the true nature of the earth is something that can only be "realised".

I understand that this is not going to go down well with someone with a background in physics and i am leauing myself wide open to the charge of "cop out".

There is nothing that could conuince me that the earth is globe shaped simply because it absolutely is not globe shaped.

Mizuki x

This could be the scientist in me talking, but isn't it a bit close-minded to ignore evidence? I'm talking about a hypothetical here: Imagine a situation where the Earth is in fact a globe. You currently do not believe this and you have your reasons for such but let's agree, for the sake of argument, that it is a globe. What evidence could you be presented with to dissuade you from your line of thinking?

GENUINE continuous and unbroken footage taken from the ISS of a complete earth orbit.

Mizuki x

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream#

I'm watching right now live.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 03:49:32 PM »
I want to push you a bit on this; why would it only make you consider the possibility and not convince you fairly solidly? Like I said, I don't believe in FET but if I went up in a rocket and went up and up and up and all I saw was land expanding out in all directions my belief in the spherical-ish Earth with 13,000 km diameter would be pretty darn shaken.

How could you see land expanding out in all directions infinitely?  Maybe God could, but not a human.  That is just silly.  The human eye has limitations.

?

Mizuki

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 04:06:17 PM »
I'm going to come out and say that I'm not an FET proponent. I'm a physicist and it flies in the face of, well, basically everything I know. I'm not here to make fun, I'm not here to incite anger, I'm here to ask what specific evidence would you, personally, accept that would shun your beliefs in FET? If someone proved to you that the moon were actually ~240000 miles away instead of 3000, would that do it? If someone were to take you into orbit and you personally saw that you could only see ~1/2 of the planet's landmass in one go, would that do it? If neither of those, what would?

Thanks for your time.

Good question - and nicely put.

I belieue that the true nature of the earth is something that can only be "realised".

I understand that this is not going to go down well with someone with a background in physics and i am leauing myself wide open to the charge of "cop out".

There is nothing that could conuince me that the earth is globe shaped simply because it absolutely is not globe shaped.

Mizuki x

This could be the scientist in me talking, but isn't it a bit close-minded to ignore evidence? I'm talking about a hypothetical here: Imagine a situation where the Earth is in fact a globe. You currently do not believe this and you have your reasons for such but let's agree, for the sake of argument, that it is a globe. What evidence could you be presented with to dissuade you from your line of thinking?

GENUINE continuous and unbroken footage taken from the ISS of a complete earth orbit.

Mizuki x

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream#

I'm watching right now live.

That is a cool link! Thank you. I"m going to watch that for a while and see what"s happening!

Mizuki x
"Earth is a maximal sphere in a cyclical space and its surface therefore a total plane, the equator plane of the Cosmos. The (total) plane, as well as the straight line and space as a whole, is flat, without curvature yet closed, running back on itself."

?

Mizuki

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  • Earth is NOT a Globe
Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 04:34:15 PM »
Well i"ue been watching it for a while now and unfortunately it"s rubbish  :(

It"s been stuck for about ten minutess now on a static picture. Another con from NASA.

Mizuki x
"Earth is a maximal sphere in a cyclical space and its surface therefore a total plane, the equator plane of the Cosmos. The (total) plane, as well as the straight line and space as a whole, is flat, without curvature yet closed, running back on itself."

?

BoatswainsMate

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2012, 04:45:44 PM »
Same here, I am going to try again later. Maybe they stop streaming at certain times.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2012, 04:47:49 PM »
They have to reload the film every now and then.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2012, 04:50:21 PM »
They have to reload the film every now and then.

Are you claiming that they replay the same footage again?

It should be quite easy to prove this if this is what you actually believe.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2012, 04:55:21 PM »
They have to reload the film every now and then.

Are you claiming that they replay the same footage again?

It should be quite easy to prove this if this is what you actually believe.

You said it, not me.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2012, 04:56:39 PM »
They have to reload the film every now and then.

Are you claiming that they replay the same footage again?

It should be quite easy to prove this if this is what you actually believe.

You said it, not me.

This doesn't appear to be an answer to the question I asked.  It looks like more FEer intellectual cowardice when presented with an opportunity to actually test your beliefs.

If they're not playing the same footage what film are they reloading?
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

*

Son of Orospu

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2012, 05:01:03 PM »
They have to reload the film every now and then.

Are you claiming that they replay the same footage again?

It should be quite easy to prove this if this is what you actually believe.

You said it, not me.

This doesn't appear to be an answer to the question I asked.  It looks like more FEer intellectual cowardice when presented with an opportunity to actually test your beliefs.

If they're not playing the same footage what film are they reloading?

Why don't you tell me.

?

BoatswainsMate

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2012, 05:03:00 PM »
Apollo 13 with Tom Hanks!

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2012, 05:03:41 PM »
Why don't you tell me.

Nothing because it's live.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2012, 05:05:08 PM »
Why don't you tell me.

Nothing because it's live.

Then why do they have to periodically stop the "Live" footage?

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2012, 05:08:36 PM »
Why don't you tell me.

Nothing because it's live.

Then why do they have to periodically stop the "Live" footage?

Usually they stop to show the crew on the inside. 

As for why it stopped just then, connection issues?  It did that for about 5 seconds earlier when I was watching, so it's not always in big blocks of time.  Of course that's too mundane, there must be something sinister going on!
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2012, 05:11:47 PM »
there must be something sinister going on!

Calm down.  Not every technical problem is caused by the conspiracy, although plenty of them are.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2012, 05:12:49 PM »
So I notice you continue dodging the question: do you think they're replaying footage or not?
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2012, 05:14:13 PM »
I notice that you periodically take breaks, then repeat yourself.  Are you a bot?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 08:42:28 PM by jroa »

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2012, 05:14:46 PM »
How could you see land expanding out in all directions infinitely?  Maybe God could, but not a human.  That is just silly.  The human eye has limitations.

Where did he say "infinitely"? 
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2012, 05:15:42 PM »
Yes, I am a bot.

Now about that footage: are they replaying it or not?
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

*

Son of Orospu

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Re: What would it take to make you stop believing in FET?
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2012, 05:20:59 PM »
Yes, I am a bot.

Reported to markjobot

How could you see land expanding out in all directions infinitely?  Maybe God could, but not a human.  That is just silly.  The human eye has limitations.

Where did he say "infinitely"? 

If the world is an infinite disk, then it would stand to reason that you would have to have extraordinary eyesight in order to know it, wouldn't you?