Flight time below the equator

The time it takes to go from Perth, Australia to Johannesburg, South Africa is about 11 hours, 15 minutes according to this tourism website: http://www.sa-venues.com/travel-times.htm
That is 5173 miles.


Using The US as a scale for the FE map, I have calculated the approximate FE distance from Perth to Johannesburg to be 11100 Miles:


Using the same airplane going the same speed would take about 24 hours to go from perth to johannesburg on a FE. But it doesn't, because the earth is a sphere. How does the FET explain this?

Lola, if there is one thing I have learned from reading the useless banter FE proponents put forth it is that anything and everything that can disprove FE is magically disproven by FE.

It should be in their FAQ like this...

Q: How can someone disprove FE?
A: you cannot, anything that disproves FE is disproven by FE and regarded as a part of either a conspiracy to fool the masses, a hoax, or simply impossible to do on our flat Earth. All evidence provided against FE will prohibit a swift change to our ideas to cover the sudden evidence and shall label that evidence as a hoax or not realistic with current FE physics. Anything sad about one map of FE will warrant a swift creation of a new map to cover the flaws in the old (no cartographers necessary).

Lola, if there is one thing I have learned from reading the useless banter FE proponents put forth it is that anything and everything that can disprove FE is magically disproven by FE.

It seems that way! 

I would like to know how this is justified by the FE'ers.

Also, the flight times above the equator have the same distance/time ratio as below the equator. (ie The flight from Washington D.C. to London, England is 3687.6 miles and takes 7 hr. 39 min .... The Flight from RE Perth to Johannesburg is 5173 miles and takes 11 hr. 15min.) So they aren't lying about the distance from Perth to Johannesburg.

Have you ever been on an international flight? They're always a lot longer than the carrier estimates, for the obvious reason you just pointed out. The conspiracy has handed out globe earths left and right, aircraft companies never had any reason to disregard them and automatically adds time to account for this discrepancy. It is usually attributed to minute things like air currents. Who would actually claim it is because the distances are incorrect? They would be called crazy and made fun of, much like the people of this forum. After all, how can you not make fun of them when you were conditioned from birth to laugh at the very thought of the earth not being round?

Have you ever been on an international flight? They're always a lot longer than the carrier estimates

Do you have documented proof that an intercontinental flight has never arrived on time?

On a FE they would arrive double the estimated time. Like the Perth to S. Africa would take 24 hrs.

Plus, on the Perth to S. Africa flight you don't pass over India, like on the FE map, just saying.

Flight times.  My favorite.  In the "northern hemisphere" they prove a flat-earth and in the "southern hemisphere" they disprove a flat-earth... or so they say.  I believe that the closer you are the the rim, and the higher you are in the air, the the more and more you are effected by what I call associative time dilation. To you, it seems like you are on an eight hour flight, and to the observers on the ground, you are on an eight hour flight.  But in actuality, time for you is moving much faster than people on the ground.  Once you descend, your time-frame aligns with the terrestrial observers and neither is the wiser.  Both parties feel like eight hours have passed, but the proximity to the rim of the earth and the height you are flying at, where the atmolayer's protection is the weakest, cause your time to move faster. 

I am currently formulating experiments to test this hypothesis.

the proximity to the rim of the earth and the height you are flying at, where the atmolayer's protection is the weakest, cause your time to move faster. 

That doesn't explain why the actual distance traveled is significantly less than what is expected if using a FE map. Do people who live closer to the rim, like in southern chile, experience faster time?

Flight times.  My favorite.  In the "northern hemisphere" they prove a flat-earth and in the "southern hemisphere" they disprove a flat-earth... or so they say.  I believe that the closer you are the the rim, and the higher you are in the air, the the more and more you are effected by what I call associative time dilation. To you, it seems like you are on an eight hour flight, and to the observers on the ground, you are on an eight hour flight.  But in actuality, time for you is moving much faster than people on the ground.  Once you descend, your time-frame aligns with the terrestrial observers and neither is the wiser.  Both parties feel like eight hours have passed, but the proximity to the rim of the earth and the height you are flying at, where the atmolayer's protection is the weakest, cause your time to move faster. 

I am currently formulating experiments to test this hypothesis.

Utter nonsense.

Why don't you interview pilots and they'll explain simple concepts that you seem to be unable to grasp.

I see that you two failed to understand the concept of height + proximity and perspective respectively.

The same thing can be applied to ships, who never leave the surface of the earth. thus never affected by this 'associative time dilation' that happens when you get high. No pun intended.

I would like to add to the vessel destination times you mention Lola. Most vessel do a great deal of things that would alter their time to destination. Everything from foul weather, unplanned course changes, currents, speed changes, and many more factors go into vessels times. I know on my boat when I am calculating time to turn or what have you it is just a number based off of our current speed/heading and can not account for the factors I listed above.

You can calculate the time for say San Fran to Mito, Japan is just need a speed and distance. Keep in mind to get very accurate you would need to factor in course changes and such since a straight set heading might not be possible, but it might I do not know.

I see that you two failed to understand the concept of height + proximity and perspective respectively.

Interview some pilots, work, read books about flight and you'll understand.

Have you ever been on an international flight? They're always a lot longer than the carrier estimates, for the obvious reason you just pointed out.

I have been in lots of international flights, and they are precise to within some 10 minutes. Since several years ago, when airliners were required to reserve a landing slot before taking off, the time of actual flight has been very consistent, even though the waiting time before departing is sometimes stretched to hours.

And your use of the word "always" is totally wrong or totally ill intended. If every single international flight South of the United States or Europe had a delay of hours, your babble would have some sense. But with just one flight that departs and lands on time your whole theory collapses.

And airlines usually have better than 90% on-time history.

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on June 05, 2012, 10:49:34 PM

Have you ever been on an international flight? They're always a lot longer than the carrier estimates, for the obvious reason you just pointed out.

I have been in lots of international flights, and they are precise to within some 10 minutes. Since several years ago, when airliners were required to reserve a landing slot before taking off, the time of actual flight has been very consistent, even though the waiting time before departing is sometimes stretched to hours.

And your use of the word "always" is totally wrong or totally ill intended. If every single international flight South of the United States or Europe had a delay of hours, your babble would have some sense. But with just one flight that departs and lands on time your whole theory collapses.

And airlines usually have better than 90% on-time history.

Please quote a source for that figure.

According to the Department of Transportation, the average on-time arrival rate is 75% among the 16 largest carriers.

http://www.gadling.com/2011/06/08/airline-industry-best-and-worst-of-april-2011/

"Overall, the airline industry posted an average on-time arrival rate of 75.5 percent. This means that a quarter of the time, they miss the mark. It's almost as easy as being a weather man!"

1 in 4 world-wide flights were delayed. Weather conditions, or a slight misunderstanding of the earth's shape?

Please put forth a source for flight times being misrepresented based on the shape of Earth, Tom.


 If you ask for a source for a claim then claim something yourself without a source...what is the word im looking for here... hypocrite? yeah that is it.

You can attribute it to weather conditions if you'd like. I'm simply saying that flight delays are incredibly common. Have you never had your flight delayed at an international airport? You can be sitting there half a day waiting for your plane to arrive.

flight delays are common, but not to the extent that one would contribute it to the Earth not being round. generally I have seen most long flight delays as a direct result of foul weather. I can see that there is a snow storm in Anchorage so therefor my flight is delayed..pretty easy.

Does that prove anything, probably not. It does not show the shape of the Earth period so I guess flight delays cannot prove either.

Tom's answer is really a way of saying: I don't have a clue, but I so want to be right that I'm ready to say anything.

@lolatherabbit. Here is a problem just for you - just for fun. (Lola is new. Let her/him have this one, all you perma noobs.)

It is over 10,000 miles from Melborne to New York
http://www.travelmath.com/flying-distance/from/New+York,+NY/to/Melbourne,+Australia



Why do airlines tell you the flight is 5 hours and 2 mins there, and 6 hours 32 back?
Here you go. Link to airline data.

10,000 miles in 5 hours is a speed of 2000 miles per hour!  Three times the speed of sound. Faster than Concorde!
So how much attention should I give to flight times?

@lolatherabbit. Here is a problem just for you - just for fun. (Lola is new. Let her/him have this one, all you perma noobs.)

It is over 10,000 miles from Melborne to New York
http://www.travelmath.com/flying-distance/from/New+York,+NY/to/Melbourne,+Australia



Why do airlines tell you the flight is 5 hours and 2 mins there, and 6 hours 32 back?
Here you go. Link to airline data.

10,000 miles in 5 hours is a speed of 2000 miles per hour!  Three times the speed of sound. Faster than Concorde!
So how much attention should I give to flight times?

Think again.

Quote from: Thork on June 06, 2012, 02:47:24 PM

@lolatherabbit. Here is a problem just for you - just for fun. (Lola is new. Let her/him have this one, all you perma noobs.)

It is over 10,000 miles from Melborne to New York
http://www.travelmath.com/flying-distance/from/New+York,+NY/to/Melbourne,+Australia



Why do airlines tell you the flight is 5 hours and 2 mins there, and 6 hours 32 back?
Here you go. Link to airline data.

10,000 miles in 5 hours is a speed of 2000 miles per hour!  Three times the speed of sound. Faster than Concorde!
So how much attention should I give to flight times?

Think again.

Your user Id isn't lolatherabbit. Go away.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on June 06, 2012, 02:55:07 PM

Quote from: Thork on June 06, 2012, 02:47:24 PM

@lolatherabbit. Here is a problem just for you - just for fun. (Lola is new. Let her/him have this one, all you perma noobs.)

It is over 10,000 miles from Melborne to New York
http://www.travelmath.com/flying-distance/from/New+York,+NY/to/Melbourne,+Australia



Why do airlines tell you the flight is 5 hours and 2 mins there, and 6 hours 32 back?
Here you go. Link to airline data.

10,000 miles in 5 hours is a speed of 2000 miles per hour!  Three times the speed of sound. Faster than Concorde!
So how much attention should I give to flight times?

Think again.

Your user Id isn't lolatherabbit. Go away.

Look again at the link and think. You can do it.

I reiterate. Go away. This isn't a problem meant for some dumb ass who is still arguing the earth is round 1700 posts later. Let someone else solve the problems.

I reiterate. Go away. This isn't a problem meant for some dumb ass who is still arguing the earth is round 1700 posts later. Let someone else solve the problems.

Don't you think there's an error in the site?

@lolatherabbit. Here is a problem just for you - just for fun. (Lola is new. Let her/him have this one, all you perma noobs.)

It is over 10,000 miles from Melborne to New York

Why do airlines tell you the flight is 5 hours and 2 mins there, and 6 hours 32 back?
Here you go. Link to airline data.

That is for a flight to Florida, not Australia.  Another site I saw actually showed total flight time from NY to Australia (not including layover times) and they were around 21-24 hours depending on the airline.

Quote from: Thork on June 06, 2012, 02:47:24 PM

@lolatherabbit. Here is a problem just for you - just for fun. (Lola is new. Let her/him have this one, all you perma noobs.)

It is over 10,000 miles from Melborne to New York

Why do airlines tell you the flight is 5 hours and 2 mins there, and 6 hours 32 back?
Here you go. Link to airline data.

That is the stop time (I.E. your layover time, or how long you have to wait between flights).  Look at the local depart and arrive times to determine total flight time.  Also, another site I saw actually showed total flight time (not including layover times) and they were around 21-24 hours depending on the airline.
10,000 miles in 5 hours is a speed of 2000 miles per hour!  Three times the speed of sound. Faster than Concorde!
So how much attention should I give to flight times?

I you help Thork too much, he won't make the effort and won't do any progress.

That is the stop time (I.E. your layover time, or how long you have to wait between flights).  Look at the local depart and arrive times to determine total flight time.  Also, another site I saw actually showed total flight time (not including layover times) and they were around 21-24 hours depending on the airline.

Sorry, no. Those are the flight times. Not layover times. Only with 2 stops does the time increase. The first one illustrates this. Take off is 6:55PM. Land is 11:57PM. 5 hours 2 mins later.

Quote from: Thork on June 06, 2012, 03:00:18 PM

I reiterate. Go away. This isn't a problem meant for some dumb ass who is still arguing the earth is round 1700 posts later. Let someone else solve the problems.

Don't you think there's an error in the site?

What part of 'go away' are you struggling with? This site is for lots of users. Not just you.

Sorry, no. Those are the flight times. Not layover times. Only with 2 stops does the time increase. The first one illustrates this. Take off is 6:55PM. Land is 11:57PM. 5 hours 2 mins later.

Sorry, just looked again and you are correct.  However, the destination was in Florida, USA, not Australia.  Look again.  I had to open the flight details to notice it.

Quote from: MrT on June 06, 2012, 03:03:54 PM

That is the stop time (I.E. your layover time, or how long you have to wait between flights).  Look at the local depart and arrive times to determine total flight time.  Also, another site I saw actually showed total flight time (not including layover times) and they were around 21-24 hours depending on the airline.

Sorry, no. Those are the flight times. Not layover times. Only with 2 stops does the time increase. The first one illustrates this. Take off is 6:55PM. Land is 11:57PM. 5 hours 2 mins later.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on June 06, 2012, 03:03:17 PM

Quote from: Thork on June 06, 2012, 03:00:18 PM

I reiterate. Go away. This isn't a problem meant for some dumb ass who is still arguing the earth is round 1700 posts later. Let someone else solve the problems.

Don't you think there's an error in the site?

What part of 'go away' are you struggling with? This site is for lots of users. Not just you.

There doesn't seem to be any direct flight from JFK to Melbourne. May be you should do another search.

Ah, I really want to answer this! flight calculations might be different from marine navigation, but it is the same concept in travel time calculations! I will leave it to Lola though...


What does one stop mean? Is that a lay over? is that factored into the actual flight time? Do they give total time of actual travel?

you would need total time of actual air travel plus the exact distance to get the speed of the aircraft. After that you can use the distance and speed to figure out the time and include time zone changes and such. There seems to be a great deal of variables in air travel so I will look some up.

I will just leave it to Lola, give her a chance, but if there is no response today I will solve it in the morning .