Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?

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markjo

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #180 on: May 18, 2012, 08:51:02 AM »
2) It doesn't make sense that an organization implicitly RE'er should choose a FE representation!

Actually, it does if you read about the history of the logo (which I've pointed out earlier in this thread).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Nations
Quote
The globe used in the original design was an azimuthal projection focused on the North Pole with the United States, the host nation of the conference, at the centre. The projection that was used cut off portions of the Southern Hemisphere at the latitude of Argentina, which was acceptable at the time, as Argentina was not planned to be an original member of the United Nations.[7] The projection was later altered so that no country will be at prominence within the flag. The new logo was now designed so that the globe is bisected in the centre by the Prime Meridian and the International Date Line.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #181 on: May 18, 2012, 08:55:02 AM »
2) It doesn't make sense that an organization implicitly RE'er should choose a FE representation!

Actually, it does if you read about the history of the logo (which I've pointed out earlier in this thread).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Nations
Quote
The globe used in the original design was an azimuthal projection focused on the North Pole with the United States, the host nation of the conference, at the centre. The projection that was used cut off portions of the Southern Hemisphere at the latitude of Argentina, which was acceptable at the time, as Argentina was not planned to be an original member of the United Nations.[7] The projection was later altered so that no country will be at prominence within the flag. The new logo was now designed so that the globe is bisected in the centre by the Prime Meridian and the International Date Line.

2) It doesn't if we think in term of conspiracy.
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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markjo

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #182 on: May 18, 2012, 09:49:33 AM »
2) It doesn't if we think in term of conspiracy.

Not much of anything makes sense if you think in terms of conspiracy.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #183 on: May 18, 2012, 09:58:19 AM »
2) It doesn't if we think in term of conspiracy.

Not much of anything makes sense if you think in terms of conspiracy.

If you look at things though the prism of conspiracy, everything makes sense.

But this conspiracy doesn't make sense. As I've said before: too long a time, too many people, too much money.
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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Thork

Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #184 on: May 18, 2012, 10:08:44 AM »
On a side note, I'm always amazed at the amount of discussion that is had here concerning ENaG.  While a notable text, its outdated, patently false at times and only really has note in its discussion and definition of its practices and philosophical pins. 
Oh, you did not just? Did you? Ooooh. Tom Bishop is going to read that, and when he does, you're gonna wish he was still unhappy at Wilmore. Oh, man.

Also if you want a united division under Daniel's umbrella, you might want to stop telling people "that's the way Daniel wants it so like it or lump it" every time someone has issue with the status quo. Because there is only so much lumping people will do before they want rid of Daniel.

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John Davis

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #185 on: May 18, 2012, 10:19:32 AM »
Yeah, I know. 

Luckily that is not what I want.
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The Knowledge

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #186 on: May 18, 2012, 10:25:13 AM »

On a side note, I'm always amazed at the amount of discussion that is had here concerning ENaG.  While a notable text, its outdated, patently false at times and only really has note in its discussion and definition of its practices and philosophical pins.  Its only worth at this point of time, other than its historical interest, is that Rowbotham is the modern father of zeteticism.

Well, we're still waiting for publication of the latest book on FET... I believe the author is called John Davis or something like that... I can't remember.
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John Davis

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #187 on: May 18, 2012, 01:46:34 PM »
Yes because clearly theres only one flat earth book in existence and its ENaG.
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mathsman

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #188 on: May 20, 2012, 08:30:03 AM »
On a side note, I'm always amazed at the amount of discussion that is had here concerning ENaG.  While a notable text, its outdated, patently false at times and only really has note in its discussion and definition of its practices and philosophical pins.  Its only worth at this point of time, other than its historical interest, is that Rowbotham is the modern father of zeteticism.

You'd better not say that to Tom Bishop, he'll punch your lights out.

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John Davis

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #189 on: May 20, 2012, 08:40:47 AM »
I'm pretty sure he knows and disagrees with my views of ENaG.  I also doubt he wishes to discuss it with me again and honestly I don't really care to either.
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zarg

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #190 on: May 20, 2012, 01:02:04 PM »
As far as the UN being "implicitly" RE, I've never heard the UN referred to as a RE organization.

99% of the organizations in the world are implicitly RE. If you didn't know what "implicit" means, you could have just said so, or looked it up.
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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #191 on: May 20, 2012, 01:06:03 PM »
As far as the UN being "implicitly" RE, I've never heard the UN referred to as a RE organization.

99% of the organizations in the world are implicitly RE. If you didn't know what "implicit" means, you could have just said so, or looked it up.

No one, apart a handfull of people think that the Earth is flat in the western world!
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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The Knowledge

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #192 on: May 20, 2012, 01:23:20 PM »
I'm pretty sure he knows and disagrees with my views of ENaG.  I also doubt he wishes to discuss it with me again and honestly I don't really care to either.

I love the way you are always saying you don't want to discuss things and then two weeks later you suddenly come back and have a go at them. Is this because you're an idiot, or is that an unrelated issue?
Also, you don't really believe the earth is flat.
Go on, ban me forever, I dare you.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #193 on: May 20, 2012, 08:15:16 PM »
On a side note, I'm always amazed at the amount of discussion that is had here concerning ENaG.  While a notable text, its outdated, patently false at times and only really has note in its discussion and definition of its practices and philosophical pins.  Its only worth at this point of time, other than its historical interest, is that Rowbotham is the modern father of zeteticism.


I tend to agree. I think methodologically/philosophically Rowbotham was clearly on to something, but he often failed to practice what he preached. I maintain that the first chapter of Zetetic Astronomy is easily the most important, and contains some of the most significant epistemic insights in human history. I still think there is more work to do in terms of establishing the scope of the Zetetic Method and augmenting its philosophical foundations, but the core is there. Incidentally, I am hoping to write another essay in the coming months on the potential for phenomenological approaches to Zeteticism, which may tie into some of your post-modernist thoughts with regard to Neozeteticism.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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John Davis

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #194 on: May 22, 2012, 01:54:44 PM »
Can't wait to read your essay!  They are always a useful and enjoyable read.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #195 on: May 22, 2012, 01:57:14 PM »
On a side note, I'm always amazed at the amount of discussion that is had here concerning ENaG.  While a notable text, its outdated, patently false at times and only really has note in its discussion and definition of its practices and philosophical pins.  Its only worth at this point of time, other than its historical interest, is that Rowbotham is the modern father of zeteticism.
I tend to agree. I think methodologically/philosophically Rowbotham was clearly on to something, but he often failed to practice what he preached.

I tend to find that his readers fail to understand what they read.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #196 on: May 22, 2012, 02:20:59 PM »
On a side note, I'm always amazed at the amount of discussion that is had here concerning ENaG.  While a notable text, its outdated, patently false at times and only really has note in its discussion and definition of its practices and philosophical pins.  Its only worth at this point of time, other than its historical interest, is that Rowbotham is the modern father of zeteticism.
I tend to agree. I think methodologically/philosophically Rowbotham was clearly on to something, but he often failed to practice what he preached.

I tend to find that his readers fail to understand what they read.

Where does he say that using others' accounts is part of zetetic reasoning?
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #197 on: May 22, 2012, 02:29:31 PM »
Can't wait to read your essay!  They are always a useful and enjoyable read.


I'll send you a draft before I post it here. Like the last one, I probably won't get around to it until June-ish, as that's when most of my college work will be submitted.


I tend to find that his readers fail to understand what they read.


Well, at least you've moved on from claiming I haven't read it. ::)


Precisely which parts have I misunderstood, Tom? Could you highlight the relevant passages, and explain my errors?
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #198 on: May 29, 2012, 06:49:18 AM »
I tend to find that his readers fail to understand what they read.


Well, at least you've moved on from claiming I haven't read it. ::)


Precisely which parts have I misunderstood, Tom? Could you highlight the relevant passages, and explain my errors?

You claim that Rowbotham states that you have to see it to believe it, or that the experimenter must have first hand knowledge, but he does not say that at all. Nowhere in your work have you cited anything from Earth Not a Globe which suggests that. Your ideas of Zeteticism are a complete farce.

You are insolent for accusing Rowbotham of failing to practice what he preaches.

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markjo

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #199 on: May 29, 2012, 07:29:10 AM »
Precisely which parts have I misunderstood, Tom? Could you highlight the relevant passages, and explain my errors?

You claim that Rowbotham states that you have to see it to believe it, or that the experimenter must have first hand knowledge, but he does not say that at all. Nowhere in your work have you cited anything from Earth Not a Globe which suggests that. Your ideas of Zeteticism are a complete farce.

You have yet to cite the relevant passage(s) where Wilmore makes this alleged claim.

Quote
You are insolent for accusing Rowbotham of failing to practice what he preaches.

And you seem to have a hard time providing any evidence to support this claim
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #200 on: May 29, 2012, 08:26:52 AM »
You claim that Rowbotham states that you have to see it to believe it, or that the experimenter must have first hand knowledge, but he does not say that at all. Nowhere in your work have you cited anything from Earth Not a Globe which suggests that. Your ideas of Zeteticism are a complete farce.


Firstly, I do not claim that Rowobotham says "you have to see it to believe it". We have been over this:


No, I'm saying that confirming the veracity of a claim requires being able to repeat it, and that to reach conclusions zetetically one's conclusions must follow logically from direct sensorial evidence. So it's totally false to say that I have reduced it to "you have to see it to believe it", because the logical consistency of the conclusions one reaches is an essential component of the methodology.


Simply put, you are making false claims about my interpretation of the Zetetic Method as expounded by Rowbotham.


Secondly, my Discourse on the Zetetic Method is just that: an interpretation of the Zetetic Method. I quite openly say that I am merely interpreting Rowbotham, and acknowledge that my interpretation may be open to dispute. However, if you wish to credibly dispute it, you should do so by explaining what you think Rowbotham does mean, and support it with textual evidence. Simply posting a link does not demonstrate understanding. I can only hope that when your Zetetic University opens, you will demand a higher standard of evidence from your students than you yourself have presented in this thread.


You are insolent for accusing Rowbotham of failing to practice what he preaches.


And you are a fool if you think otherwise.


I have been polite throughout this thread, Tom, but my patience is at an end. Either dispute my interpretation with textual evidence in a civil manner, or cease posting. The Zetetic Method is not whatever you wish it to be for the sake of convenience, and insulting the work of others and the intellectual stances they take whilst making no commitments yourself is cowardly and lazy. I will brook no more of it - until you state and substantiate your own position, you have no right to claim that mine is incorrect.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #201 on: May 29, 2012, 09:11:18 AM »
Quote from: Markjo
You have yet to cite the relevant passage(s) where Wilmore makes this alleged claim.

Here's Wilmore's thread: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=48821.0

Here's where Wilmore says that you have to see it to believe it:

Quote from: Wilmore
In contrast, that Zetetics "[learn] from experience and observation" (Rowbotham 1) implies that they make logical deductions based on data they have themselves experienced or observed, and that there must be a direct connection between the data and the person drawing logical conclusions from it. Otherwise, Zetetics would not be making logical deductions on the basis of "experience and observation", but rather from reported experiences or reported observations. In short, the Zetetic Method requires that logical deduction be based upon direct sensorial evidence. This is what separates 'observation' from the globularist notion of empirical data, and it accords with our intuitive understanding of Zeteticism, which sees individual Zetetics conducting experiments and drawing conclusions on that basis, rather than making assumptions or accepting as given the opinions of those with vested interests.

and later on:

Quote from: Wilmore
The role of the observer is therefore at the heart of the Zetetic Method, which requires us to seek the truth ourselves.

Wilmore is saying to do it yourself and distrust others.

Quote from: Markjo
And you seem to have a hard time providing any evidence to support this claim

Here's the relevant chapter defining Zeticism in Earth Not a Globe: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm

Where does it say anything like first hand evidence is required?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 09:59:35 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #202 on: May 29, 2012, 09:16:57 AM »
Quote from: Lord Wilmore
Firstly, I do not claim that Rowobotham says "you have to see it to believe it". We have been over this:

Yes you did. Your Zetetic Discourse suggests those sentiments. In my previous post above I just quoted you where you stated that direct sensoral evidence is required and that third party reports are heresy.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore
Simply put, you are making false claims about my interpretation of the Zetetic Method as expounded by Rowbotham.

I've read your interpretation and it is incorrect. Rowbotham does not say anything to the effect of first hand evidence being necessary for evidence or not to trust other investigators. In Earth Not a Globe the author provides literally hundreds of pieces of third party evidence to support his position, which he himself did not collect.

Not only does Rowbotham not say Zeteticism is what you are claiming, his actual work is in complete contradiction to the principles you say he teaches.

Quote from: Lord Wilmore
I have been polite throughout this thread, Tom, but my patience is at an end. Either dispute my interpretation with textual evidence in a civil manner, or cease posting.
The Zetetic Method is not whatever you wish it to be for the sake of convenience, and insulting the work of others and the intellectual stances they take whilst making no commitments yourself is cowardly and lazy. I will brook no more of it - until you state and substantiate your own position, you have no right to claim that mine is incorrect.

Here's Chapter 1 of Earth Not a Globe: ZETETIC AND THEORETIC DEFINED AND COMPARED

Where does Rowbotham say that direct sensoral evidence is required, and not to rely on third party evidence? I can't quote the passages you misquoted Rowbotham on because you make no quotes which support your position.

The sole and only quote you provide is that Rowbotham says to "[learn] from experience and observation", but I can't even find the phrase "from experience and observation" in Earth Not a Globe. Nonetheless, the quote does not state whose experiences and observations you should learn from, nor does the text in the above link. It does not state that you cannot learn from the experiences and observations of others. As Rowbotham supports his position with hundreds of third party sources, the sentiment is clearly not anything to the effect of first hand evidence being required.

In Zeticism you learn from the established body of work of others, just like the regular method.

The concept of a Conspiracy in the scientific community may seem to contradict this idea, which may have led to confusion of what Zetecism means, but as long as there is compelling evidence discrediting those sources, the fundamental principles stand. The Conspiracy presents a body of work suggesting that the earth is a globe, but there is also a body of work discrediting those sources.

NASA clearly wasn't around in the 1800's when Earth Not a Globe was written. Rowbotham didn't author his work under the idea of others being untrustworthy or having vested interests. Rowbtham authored his work under the premise of the western world being mistaken on the earth's shape. A great deal of third party evidence from the established scientific community is collected to support this position.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 10:34:04 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #203 on: May 29, 2012, 10:24:23 AM »
This is when a thread should be locked?  Come on, guys, you're obviously not going to reach any kind of agreement here.  Can't you just shake hands as gentlemen and simply agree to disagree?

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #204 on: June 10, 2012, 03:36:14 PM »
Yes you did. Your Zetetic Discourse suggests those sentiments. In my previous post above I just quoted you where you stated that direct sensoral evidence is required and that third party reports are heresy.


It "suggests those sentiments", does it? Is that code for "Wilmore never actually said that?"


I've read your interpretation and it is incorrect. Rowbotham does not say anything to the effect of first hand evidence being necessary for evidence or not to trust other investigators. In Earth Not a Globe the author provides literally hundreds of pieces of third party evidence to support his position, which he himself did not collect.

Not only does Rowbotham not say Zeteticism is what you are claiming, his actual work is in complete contradiction to the principles you say he teaches.


I have supported my interpretation with direct quotes from Rowbotham. If that interpretation is incorrect, you need to explain why he says those things, or why they don't mean what I quite reasonably suggest they mean.




Here's Chapter 1 of Earth Not a Globe: ZETETIC AND THEORETIC DEFINED AND COMPARED

Where does Rowbotham say that direct sensoral evidence is required, and not to rely on third party evidence? I can't quote the passages you misquoted Rowbotham on because you make no quotes which support your position.

The sole and only quote you provide is that Rowbotham says to "[learn] from experience and observation", but I can't even find the phrase "from experience and observation" in Earth Not a Globe. Nonetheless, the quote does not state whose experiences and observations you should learn from, nor does the text in the above link. It does not state that you cannot learn from the experiences and observations of others. As Rowbotham supports his position with hundreds of third party sources, the sentiment is clearly not anything to the effect of first hand evidence being required.


First of all, I quote Rowbotham no fewer than three times. With regard to your accusation of a misquote, I must concede you are partially correct: Rowbotham says "observation and experience", not "experience and observation". I am a bit annoyed, because I hate making citation errors, but this is quite obviously an error of no argumentative substance (though I will amend it). However, it leads me to conclude you've been searching for terms instead of reading the text.


As for Rowbotham's reference to other sources, nowhere do I say one cannot do so, or that such evidence is of no value. However, it is in no way in line with the Zetetic Method, and at no point in the above chapter does Rowbotham refer to it, despite the chapter ostensibly being an outline of that methodology.


He outlines the Zetetic Method, and does not refer to such sources. He does argue that conclusions should be based on "observation and experience".  Hence it is entirely reasonable to conclude that the use of such sources is not part of of the Zetetic Method.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #205 on: June 10, 2012, 04:46:41 PM »
Rowbotham does not say that all evidence must be based on direct first hand observations and experiences. Where does he say that?

The observations and experiences of others may be used. The observations and experiences of others are archived and cataloged to create a body of corroborating evidence. Earth Not a Globe contains hundreds of third party pieces of evidence.

If Zeteticism required that first hand experience be necessary, why would the actual work demonstrate otherwise?

Please quote where Rowbotham states that first hand evidence is required. Rowbotham states that evidence is required (observations and experiences), but he does not state anywhere that they need to be first hand.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #206 on: June 10, 2012, 06:41:15 PM »
Rowbotham does not say that all evidence must be based on direct first hand observations and experiences. Where does he say that?


I have provided quotes and interpretations to that effect.


The observations and experiences of others may be used.


Where, in chapter 1, where Rowbotham defines and outlines the Zetetic Method, does he say that? Because if he doesn't say it there, how can it be part of the Zetetic Method?


Please quote where Rowbotham states that first hand evidence is required. Rowbotham states that evidence is required (observations and experiences), but he does not state anywhere that they need to be first hand.


Please read my Discourse on the Zetetic Method. It addresses this issue specifically, so either you haven't read it, or you're unwilling to engage with it. Neither is acceptable at this stage.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 11:22:26 AM by Lord Wilmore »
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #207 on: June 10, 2012, 11:15:44 PM »
Rowbotham does not say that all evidence must be based on direct first hand observations and experiences. Where does he say that?


I have provided quotes and interpretations to that effect.

No, you have not provided quotes to that effect. You provided quotes where Rowbotham says that evidence must be collected through observations and experience. Where does he say that you have to do it yourself?

Provide the direct quote, right here, right now.

Quote
Where, in chapter 1, where Rowbotham defines and outlines the Zetetic Method, does he say that? Because if he doesn't say it there, how can it be part of the Zetetic Method?

Did you read the rest of Earth Not a Globe? HUNDREDS of third parties are cited throughout the work to support Rowbotham's positions.

Rowbotham does not say anywhere that first hand experience is required. His work demonstrates quite the contrary.

Quote
Please read my Discourse on the Zetetic Method. It addresses this issue specifically, so either you haven't read it, or you're unwilling to engage with it. Neither is acceptable at this st

Please read Samuel Birley Rowbotham's Earth Not a Globe. The presence of hundreds of third party citations demonstrates very clearly that the philosophy behind the work does not require first hand experience.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 08:51:52 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #208 on: June 11, 2012, 11:32:13 AM »
No, you have not provided quotes to that effect. You provided quotes where Rowbotham says that evidence must be collected through observations and experience. Where does he say that you have to do it yourself?

Provide the direct quote, right here, right now.


I said "quotes and interpretations". Stop creating strawman arguments Tom. Please argue against the positions I have actually taken, not those you'd like to argue against.


Did you read the rest of Earth Not a Globe? HUNDREDS of third parties are cited throughout the work to support Rowbotham's positions.


If they're part of the Zetetic Method, why doesn't he mention them in the first chapter, where that method is defined and outlined?


Rowbotham does not say anywhere that first hand experience is required. His work demonstrates quite the contrary.


Rowbotham at no point precisely states the kind of empirical data he demands. We have to infer it based on extremely limited textual evidence. Below I make what I consider to be a compelling analysis of that evidence, resulting in my interpretation of Rowbotham:


   At this point I must return to an issue I left unresolved earlier, as I wished to lay out the largely incontestable aspects of my thesis first. I have mentioned "evidence" and "empirical data" several times in the last few paragraphs, but the former is a highly ambiguous term, and the latter is never used by Rowbotham himself. The most explicit phrase he uses to describe the kind of data required by practioners of the Zetetic Method is "observation and experience" (Rowbotham 1), and even this description is so vague as to require interpretation. I believe that the use of the word "observation" indicates that Rowbotham means something quite different to traditional globularist notion of 'empirical data', which includes photographs, fanciful accounts and all manner of 'evidence' that may not have been observed nor experienced by the person 'verifying' the imaginative theory that has been constructed.


    In contrast, that Zetetics "[learn] from observation and experience" (Rowbotham 1) implies that they make logical deductions based on data they have themselves experienced or observed, and that there must be a direct connection between the data and the person drawing logical conclusions from it. Otherwise, Zetetics would not be making logical deductions on the basis of "observation and experience", but rather from reported experiences or reported observations. In short, the Zetetic Method requires that logical deduction be based upon direct sensorial evidence. This is what separates 'observation' from the globularist notion of empirical data, and it accords with our intuitive understanding of Zeteticism, which sees individual Zetetics conducting experiments and drawing conclusions on that basis, rather than making assumptions or accepting as given the opinions of those with vested interests.


If you have a problem with my analysis, state it, but you need to commit to an actual view about what Rowbotham means, because the fact is that the terms he uses are so broad as to be (in context) of very little use in determining his methodological views.


Please read Samuel Birley Rowbotham's Earth Not a Globe. The presence of hundreds of third party citations demonstrates very clearly that the philosophy behind the work does not require first hand experience.


Rowbotham also quotes from scripture. Are we to take it that Bible quotes constitute evidence for Zetetics? Rowbotham's use of third-party accounts is every bit as anecdotal as his quoting scripture, and is only ever used as rhetorical support for his experimental claims.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Tausami

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Re: Why do the United Nations and Flat Earth Society have the same Logo?
« Reply #209 on: June 11, 2012, 12:09:36 PM »
Warning: noobs should not interfere at this stage. It's too dangerous. I'm taking a risk just to post this warning. This is a clash of titans and regardless of whether or not you agree with them (I myself have grudges and/or dissenting opinions towards both) I highly recommend you respect that.

Tausami out, please don't catch me in the crossfire.