Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light

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Tom Bishop

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If you watch the Apollo videos NASA doesn't even put an appropriate delay between the astronauts and mission control to account for the moon's distance. The astronauts and Huston are communicating faster than the speed of light.



    "The Moon is 350-400,000km away from Earth, that is 1.25-1.4 Light Seconds. Yet the Communications Between Earth & The "Moon" have no Perceivable Delay. If they were really on the Moon there would have been a delay of 2.5-2.8 seconds between Ground Control and the Astronauts on the Surface of the Moon."

Apparently NASA astronauts are trained in the art of talking over other people. They know exactly what ground control is going to say, as they rehearsed so many times!!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 09:54:18 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Also, this guy from the comments says that the videos were edited:

Quote from: LunarTuner
You have simply found edited video/audio. Apollo video and audio has been copies perhaps more than any events in history. It is very often edited for time, so the edited versions don't reflect the delays correctly. However, the delays WERE heard in the original broadcasts (as I and millions others can attest). You can find more dependable, unedited audio. Go to the "Lunar Surface Journal" website. What you've discovered is hardly 100% proof of anything.

But if you go to the Lunar Surface Journal website we see the same no-delay videos: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/video11.html#Lan

See the 15 minute video for instance. It's the third video clip down on the page. In many cases the astronauts and mission control are saying "Roger that," "Copy," and responding to eachother's questions almost immediately.

The snippit from the original video "Huston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed." "Roger that Tranquility, we copy you on the ground." occurs at the 15:18 mark and is without delay.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 04:02:01 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2012, 09:22:34 AM »
1. The video on YouTube has been heavily edited.
2. There's no proof that the video released by the NASA hasn't been sound-edited.

Again, Tom, it's not that I don't believe you, it is that in order to believe you, I need real evidence.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2012, 09:31:25 AM »
1. The video on YouTube has been heavily edited.
2. There's no proof that the video released by the NASA hasn't been sound-edited.

Again, Tom, it's not that I don't believe you, it is that in order to believe you, I need real evidence.

Please see the second post of this thread. The versions on NASA's website agree with the YouTube video.

Why would NASA go through the videos and delete the delays before each and every spoken sentence in hours of footage? That's ridiculous to the extreme. That's the way it was shown on the original "live" television broadcast, and that's how it is shown here.  The video journal is purported to be an accurate representation of the Apollo missions. Editing out portions of the audio would mess up the timing of the entire journal.

Many people did record the live Apollo landings. You will find the same no-delay communication wherever you look. NASA did not go back and edit everyone's sentences. How absurd.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 10:01:26 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2012, 09:59:48 AM »
1. Correction. The images of the video are heavily edited and biased.
2. You better start to put yourself in the minds of the NASA people in order to understand them. May be you'll have a different analysis, since you're not bringing proofs.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2012, 10:10:15 AM »
NASA did not go through hours of footage and remove the delays before every spoken sentence. What a laugh. When you have a better argument for me to address send me a PM.

Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2012, 10:11:57 AM »
NASA did not go through hours of footage and remove the delays before every spoken sentence. What a laugh. When you have a better argument for me to address send me a PM.

Prove it on this one, then.
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Moon squirter

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 12:14:40 AM »
NASA did not go through hours of footage and remove the delays before every spoken sentence. What a laugh. When you have a better argument for me to address send me a PM.

Source?   What a laugh, you have no evidence. I'm sure it would take "hours" to go through hours of footage.  Perfectly reasonable.
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hoppy

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 08:05:00 AM »
Tom it seems that it takes more than evidence to break through the brain washing of RET.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 09:39:01 AM »
NASA did not go through hours of footage and remove the delays before every spoken sentence. What a laugh. When you have a better argument for me to address send me a PM.

Prove it on this one, then.

A Youtube user was kind enough to upload recordings of the original live broadcasts of the CBS News Coverage of the  1960's and 1970's Apollo missions. There are several hundred CBS Apollo recordings on his channel.

Here is the "The Eagle has landed" snippit at 6:01:

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">CBS Apollo 11 Landing.

Feel free to watch his other videos as well. You will hear the same no-delay communication as seen in the Youtube video in the first post, and as seen in the Lunar Surface Journal.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 08:55:04 AM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 09:48:38 AM »
If you watch the Apollo videos NASA doesn't even put an appropriate delay between the astronauts and mission control to account for the moon's distance. The astronauts and Huston are communicating faster than the speed of light.

The answer is very simple:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories#Transmissions
Quote
2. Typical delays in communication were about 0.5 seconds.
 
  • Claims that the delays were only half a second are untrue, as examination of the original recordings show. It should also be borne in mind that there should not be a straightforward, consistent time delay between every response, as the conversation is being recorded at one end - Mission Control. Responses from Mission Control could be heard without any delay, as the recording is being made at the same time that Houston receives the transmission from the Moon.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 09:57:30 AM »
If you watch the Apollo videos NASA doesn't even put an appropriate delay between the astronauts and mission control to account for the moon's distance. The astronauts and Huston are communicating faster than the speed of light.

The answer is very simple:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories#Transmissions
Quote
2. Typical delays in communication were about 0.5 seconds.
 
  • Claims that the delays were only half a second are untrue, as examination of the original recordings show. It should also be borne in mind that there should not be a straightforward, consistent time delay between every response, as the conversation is being recorded at one end - Mission Control. Responses from Mission Control could be heard without any delay, as the recording is being made at the same time that Houston receives the transmission from the Moon.

If you had watched the video linked in the second post of this thread from the Lunar Surface Journal you would see that the astronauts are clearly communicating with mission control without delay, and that mission control is communicating with the astronauts without delay. It cuts both ways. Each are saying "Roger," "Copy That," and answering eachother's questions almost immediately.

Apparently you didn't even watch the first video I provided. The first "The Eagle has landed" example in the Youtube video in the first post shows mission control responding immediately to the astronauts. The second " class="bbc_link" target="_blank"> "What does the moon look like?" example in the original Youtube video shows the astronauts responding to mission control without a 2.8 second delay.

Your contention that this is explained by the feed being recorded at mission control is bogus. This is what should have happened:

Mission Control: "What does the moon look like? Over."
[1.4 second delay should happen here]
[Apollo astronauts receive transmission]
Astronauts: "Okay, Houston. The moon is essentially gray, no color; looks like plaster-of-paris or sort of a grayish beach sand."
[1.4 second delay should happen here]
[Mission Control receives transmission]
Mission control: Roger that.

The recording at mission control should have picked up 2.8 seconds of silence before hearing the response. But it did not. This isn't even accounting for the fact that Apollo 11 signals were allegedly received at a dish in Australia, which was then relayed to Huston on land lines (significantly slower than speed of light as anyone who has made an international phone call across an ocean can attest), causing even greater delay.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 04:22:50 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2012, 10:23:59 AM »
when did youtube videos become evidence. please provide the master tapes of the original recording.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2012, 10:48:27 AM »
when did youtube videos become evidence. please provide the master tapes of the original recording.

Hundreds of recordings of the CBS broadcasts of the live Apollo missions are available, as I described four posts above. Is NASA editing live CBS footage from 1969 now?

Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2012, 11:04:05 AM »
If you watch the Apollo videos NASA doesn't even put an appropriate delay between the astronauts and mission control to account for the moon's distance. The astronauts and Huston are communicating faster than the speed of light.



    "The Moon is 350-400,000km away from Earth, that is 1.25-1.4 Light Seconds. Yet the Communications Between Earth & The "Moon" have no Perceivable Delay. If they were really on the Moon there would have been a delay of 2.5-2.8 seconds between Ground Control and the Astronauts on the Surface of the Moon."

Apparently NASA astronauts are trained in the art of talking over other people. They know exactly what ground control is going to say, as they rehearsed so many times!!

They haven't edited that very well.

I mean the guy responding didn't even have a chance to think before replying. They've edited too much of the pause out.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2012, 11:58:16 AM »
The quick responses between the astronauts and mission control appear in the Lunar Surface Journal, as well as recorded on the live CBS broadcasts.

It's quick because the dialogue is scripted and they are sitting between two rooms, not 238855 miles away. I've provided enough evidence that NASA is not editing out the delays, unless you're going to start claiming that NASA is editing the live 1960's CBS broadcasts...

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2012, 12:29:08 PM »
The quick responses between the astronauts and mission control appear in the Lunar Surface Journal, as well as recorded on the live CBS broadcasts.

It's quick because the dialogue is scripted and they are sitting between two rooms, not 238855 miles away. I've provided enough evidence that NASA is not editing out the delays, unless you're going to start claiming that NASA is editing the live 1960's CBS broadcasts...

So the conspiracy leaders new that the moon should have ejecta blankets twice the size of mercury but forgot that there would be a radio delay between the earth and the moon?

Not sure if too stupid or just trolling.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2012, 12:51:37 PM »
So the conspiracy leaders new that the moon should have ejecta blankets twice the size of mercury but forgot that there would be a radio delay between the earth and the moon?

You don't seem too smart yourself, misspelling grade 2 level words.

You are assuming that NASA is hired the best of the best to pull off this scam. But the mistakes made are numerous and cumulative. The people doing this were clearly not the brightest crayons in the box.

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2012, 01:12:49 PM »
So the conspiracy leaders new that the moon should have ejecta blankets twice the size of mercury but forgot that there would be a radio delay between the earth and the moon?

You don't seem too smart yourself, misspelling grade 2 level words.

You are assuming that NASA is hired the best of the best to pull off this scam. But the mistakes made are numerous and cumulative. The people doing this were clearly not the brightest crayons in the box.

"You are assuming that NASA is hired the best of the best to pull off this scam."

I think I have heard a second grader say that to me before.  Why don't we stop with the nitpicking and get down to how fundamentally dumb your argument is.

You think that NASA executives are running a fake space program.  To do this they hire people that somehow know that ejecta blankets on the moon should be twice that of the ones on mercury.  Someone actually sat there faking the mercury photos to have the correct size ejecta blanket around the craters, but the same group of people forgot that there should be a radio delay?

Then you make an equally idiotic claim, that someone faking an entire lunar program would higher idiots to do the portion that will come under the some of the highest scrutiny, the transcripts.  These transcripts are viewed, and the tapes are listened to by tons of people now, and many more in the past.  Yet the NASA executives with millions and millions and millions of future dollars on the line, participating in criminal activity, trust this act to people who are so dumb as to forget that there should be a radio delay.


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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2012, 01:44:51 PM »
"You are assuming that NASA is hired the best of the best to pull off this scam."

I think I have heard a second grader say that to me before.  Why don't we stop with the nitpicking and get down to how fundamentally dumb your argument is.

You think that NASA executives are running a fake space program.  To do this they hire people that somehow know that ejecta blankets on the moon should be twice that of the ones on mercury.  Someone actually sat there faking the mercury photos to have the correct size ejecta blanket around the craters, but the same group of people forgot that there should be a radio delay?

Then you make an equally idiotic claim, that someone faking an entire lunar program would higher idiots to do the portion that will come under the some of the highest scrutiny, the transcripts.  These transcripts are viewed, and the tapes are listened to by tons of people now, and many more in the past.  Yet the NASA executives with millions and millions and millions of future dollars on the line, participating in criminal activity, trust this act to people who are so dumb as to forget that there should be a radio delay.

Regardless of how amateur the mistakes in the Apollo footage are, the fact is that the mistakes were made.

How can one say that NASA is smart when things like the ejecta blankets being twice the size of mercury's is entirely unverifiable?

There is clearly no delay in the communication between the astronauts and mission control. The scam is blatant and obvious.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2012, 02:05:49 PM »
I do think that it's a bit simplistic to attribute these mistakes to the conspirators being a bunch of morons.  But it's a fact that everyone, no matter how smart they are, will occasionally make mistakes that look stupid in hindsight.  The logic of "That's a really dumb mistake, therefore they couldn't have made it" just isn't supported by reality.

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hoppy

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 07:01:50 PM »
when did youtube videos become evidence. please provide the master tapes of the original recording.

Hundreds of recordings of the CBS broadcasts of the live Apollo missions are available, as I described four posts above. Is NASA editing live CBS footage from 1969 now?
Also NASA claims to have lost thousands of the original tapes of apollo missions.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2012, 08:28:37 PM »
when did youtube videos become evidence. please provide the master tapes of the original recording.

Hundreds of recordings of the CBS broadcasts of the live Apollo missions are available, as I described four posts above. Is NASA editing live CBS footage from 1969 now?
Also NASA claims to have lost thousands of the original tapes of apollo missions.

Yeah, that's right. We don't even have the master tapes from the Apollo mission to look at or study because NASA 'lost' them along with all of the scientific and telemetry data collected from the craft's equipment. I don't know how you can lose two metric tons of tape and data of the most important event in human history, but NASA did. Mumbled to be "in a government warehouse somewhere" whenever a Freedom of Information act request is put through.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2012, 09:08:05 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11_missing_tapes

Back up tapes in case something went wrong with the live feed, to be precise.  With the technology of the 60s they wouldn't have been able to reproduce any better pictures than what were captured from the live feed.

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sillyrob

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2012, 09:26:24 PM »
Those beeps between messages don't hint at any sort of editing.

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Lorddave

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2012, 09:16:56 AM »
I looked at the 15 minute video at the time index you mentioned.

There is a 3-4 second delay between mission control saying that they can all breath again and the astronaughts saying "thank you".

So I don't see the problem.
After all, why would there be a delay between the audio coming from space and mission control's response if you record the audio from mission control?  The delay is only how long it takes for the signal to reach the earth or space. Once it arrives the response is instant because each word isn't being delayed, the whole signal is. Once you start receiving the signal it'll sound like its from down the block.
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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2012, 11:56:24 AM »
Wrong again, Tom.  The tapes were not lost.  They were erased.  There was a three-year investigation.  It's not like they could record all of that data on a small HDD.  They recorded everything on magnetic tapes, and those tapes take up a great deal of space.  They were recycled for use in other missions.  Mistakenly, obviously, but the explanation is still much more efficient than yours.  And, it doesn't assume the conclusion.

More to the point, here is a perfect example of the effects of the these very real communications delays: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/ktclips/ap11_landing_with_FD_loop.rm
You might have to right click and do a "save as.." or something.  It's an audio file from http://www.apolloarchive.com/.  You can navigate to the file by clicking the "Apollo Multimedia" link on the left, then scrolling down to "Apollo 11 landing: Flight Director loop (left channel), Air-to-Ground (right channel)" under Apollo 11.

The downloaded .rm file can be played with VLC Media Player, among others.

You'll notice not only that the delays are causing them to talk over one another all the time, but also that you can occasionally hear the flight director's previous transmission in the air-to-ground transmission coming from the moon, a couple of seconds after the flight director made the transmission.

Sure, out of hundreds of hours of taped communications, you can surely find a few instances in which it seems like there is no delay.  It's only relevant if you ignore all of the communications that are stymied by the delay.  It's only relevant if you believe that it would be impossible for any of them to anticipate the questions of the others.  It's only relevant if the "no delay" examples are actually examples of genuine communication, and not just the coincidence of two people saying words at the same time.

For example, there are times when it seems like the capsule is communicating with Houston with no delay, until you realize that Houston is just saying "good" or "ok" over and over again, not in response to what the capsule commander is saying, but because they are giving the capsule a constant verification that their flight path is still on track.

You're unwilling to do any real analysis.  You're a fake intellectual.  You comb through mountains of data to find one or two points that appear to support your point, but only if we're willing to assume the conclusion, and only if we're unwilling to continue our inquiry.  You stop asking questions as soon as you get the answer you wanted all along.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 11:58:10 AM by garygreen »
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2012, 12:19:47 PM »
I just thought of something else, too.  When you do your "analysis" of the time between communications, are you timing it from the start of a sentence, or from the end?  I've noticed that several instances in which communication seems instant are really an artifact of the fact that houston begins its response before the astronaut finishes his sentence.  Example: The capsule reports a warning light.  "Houston, we've got a warning light on blah blah blah blah."  Houston seems to respond immediately, but this is because Houston receives the same warning light at the same time (maybe before, depending on when the capsule sees it) as they receive the message about it.  The sentence runs on for a moment after the actual information about the warning light has been transmitted.  If Houston begins its response while the astronaut is still "finishing his sentence," the timing simply won't reflect the actual communication delays from an external perspective.

This is the real problem with these analyses.  With the amount of talking over one another, the ability of both sides to predict what info the other needs and when they need it, and the number of transmissions that aren't query-response kinds of communication, the data has too much "noise" to lead to a meaningful conclusion.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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BoatswainsMate

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2012, 04:30:49 PM »
When communicating by radio, the radio waves are traveling to the recipient the moment the sender begins transmission. Everything that follows is like one giant line of radio wave. The only delay that would be noticeable is the brief moments the astronaut hits that button to open comms while the entail signal is traveling to the recipient. Once that is established it would be like hearing him talk to you normally.

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squevil

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Re: Apollo astronauts communicating faster than the speed of light
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2012, 07:54:43 PM »
2 words;

zetetic evidence


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