NASA

Just to complete the destruction of Tom Bishop's latest wild speculation (like we did on the Apollo 16 site reuse), I point out that Tom Bishop without merit argues that the 'tape' is the only way the heat shield was kept in place.

You're right, there also appear to be some staples in there. Really, they might as well have just sewn it on.

No legitimate space agency would use tape to hold things together on a space ship and cross their fingers that the impact of landing or the vibration of the engines wouldn't dislodge the adhesive.

Explain.

Where does this fantastic knowledge come from?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 23, 2012, 09:41:38 AM

No legitimate space agency would use tape to hold things together on a space ship and cross their fingers that the impact of landing or the vibration of the engines wouldn't dislodge the adhesive.

Explain.

Where does this fantastic knowledge come from?

It comes from common sense, and being able to think independently. Some people can see through a bunch of lies and some can't. I guess you are one of the gullible ones.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 23, 2012, 03:58:53 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 23, 2012, 09:41:38 AM

No legitimate space agency would use tape to hold things together on a space ship and cross their fingers that the impact of landing or the vibration of the engines wouldn't dislodge the adhesive.

Explain.

Where does this fantastic knowledge come from?

It comes from common sense, and being able to think independently. Some people can see through a bunch of lies and some can't. I guess you are one of the gullible ones.

Common sense would follow that tape is sticky, and NASA used it to stick something together, which seems reasonable.  Stupidity would follow that NASA used tape, and therefore is a giant conspiracy, which seems unreasonable.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 23, 2012, 03:58:53 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 23, 2012, 09:41:38 AM

No legitimate space agency would use tape to hold things together on a space ship and cross their fingers that the impact of landing or the vibration of the engines wouldn't dislodge the adhesive.

Explain.

Where does this fantastic knowledge come from?

It comes from common sense, and being able to think independently. Some people can see through a bunch of lies and some can't. I guess you are one of the gullible ones.

I never said I don't believe Tom Bishop, I say that he didn't bring any kind of grounds to his claims and furthermore that his common sense can be seriously questioned.

I am not gullible in a way that I don't swallow everything that Tim Bishop says.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 23, 2012, 03:58:53 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 23, 2012, 09:41:38 AM

No legitimate space agency would use tape to hold things together on a space ship and cross their fingers that the impact of landing or the vibration of the engines wouldn't dislodge the adhesive.

Explain.

Where does this fantastic knowledge come from?

It comes from common sense, and being able to think independently. Some people can see through a bunch of lies and some can't. I guess you are one of the gullible ones.

Common sense you say?  What does your common sense say is a reasonable way to attach a light weight film of heat reflective material to the outside of a lunar lander?

Quote from: hoppy on April 23, 2012, 04:13:03 PM

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 23, 2012, 03:58:53 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 23, 2012, 09:41:38 AM

No legitimate space agency would use tape to hold things together on a space ship and cross their fingers that the impact of landing or the vibration of the engines wouldn't dislodge the adhesive.

Explain.

Where does this fantastic knowledge come from?

It comes from common sense, and being able to think independently. Some people can see through a bunch of lies and some can't. I guess you are one of the gullible ones.

Common sense you say?  What does your common sense say is a reasonable way to attach a light weight film of heat reflective material to the outside of a lunar lander?

First of all "Markjo," that doesn't look like a space blanket at all on the Lunar Lander. It looks like CARDBOARD.

Space Blanket:



Cardboard:



Lunar Lander



Secondly, why are you still arguing that haphazardly applied pieces of tape is a proper building technique to hold together a space ship? Don't you see how stupid that sounds?

Secondly, why are you still arguing that haphazardly applied pieces of tape is a proper building technique to hold together a space ship? Don't you see how stupid that sounds?

Holding together space blankets and covers is not the same as holding together a space craft.

Holding together space blankets and covers is not the same as holding together a space craft.

Once more, I do not see any 'space blanket', but I do see something which looks uncannily similar to cardboard.

Quote from: markjo on April 23, 2012, 08:16:59 PM

Holding together space blankets and covers is not the same as holding together a space craft.

Once more, I do not see any 'space blanket', but I do see something which looks uncannily similar to cardboard.

What do you think is wrapped around the descent stage?

Quote from: markjo on April 23, 2012, 08:16:59 PM

Holding together space blankets and covers is not the same as holding together a space craft.

Once more, I do not see any 'space blanket', but I do see something which looks uncannily similar to cardboard.

OK, this is the first concession from Tom.  It looks similar.   Gentlemen, we are making progress.

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/images11.html

Here is the source for that picture.  There are many, many more pictures as well.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 23, 2012, 09:10:01 PM

Quote from: markjo on April 23, 2012, 08:16:59 PM

Holding together space blankets and covers is not the same as holding together a space craft.

Once more, I do not see any 'space blanket', but I do see something which looks uncannily similar to cardboard.

What do you think is wrapped around the descent stage?

If the gold foil is your space blanket then we cannot really see how it is attached to the lander with in that photo. I'm not sure why you brought it up. I'm talking about the cardboard.

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/images11.html

Here is the source for that picture.  There are many, many more pictures as well.

Yes, many pictures of taped together space-craft.



(high res)

Quote from: markjo on April 23, 2012, 09:29:15 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 23, 2012, 09:10:01 PM

Quote from: markjo on April 23, 2012, 08:16:59 PM

Holding together space blankets and covers is not the same as holding together a space craft.

Once more, I do not see any 'space blanket', but I do see something which looks uncannily similar to cardboard.

What do you think is wrapped around the descent stage?

If the gold foil is your space blanket then we cannot really see how it is attached to the lander with in that photo. I'm not sure why you brought it up. I'm talking about the cardboard.

Quote from: MrT on April 24, 2012, 04:29:19 AM

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/images11.html

Here is the source for that picture.  There are many, many more pictures as well.

Yes, man pictures of taped together lunar landers.



(high res)

I'm sorry Tom but i don't see any masking tape or a craft that's not been constructed properly. As its been explained to you that 'special tape' is a plausible material to use when securing the 'blankets' to the craft, even with the stresses and vibrations during take off. I think someone made a good comment in this thread that a human being would need to experience the stresses of take off which means the g forces etc... are probably not as severe as you're imaging them to be.

Also if you look at more of those pictures it clearly shows how intricate the Apollo projects were.

Yes, man pictures of taped together lunar landers.

Are you under the mistaken impression that the only use of that yellow tape is to hold cardboard together?

Let's review your arrogant, and unsupported claims here:

• The yellow strips in the photo are tape.
• The alleged tape is holding something together.
• The something is cardboard.
• No other means could possibly be used to hold the alleged cardboard together.

You fail again, Tom Bishop.

I'm sorry Tom but i don't see any masking tape or a craft that's not been constructed properly. As its been explained to you that 'special tape' is a plausible material to use when securing the 'blankets' to the craft, even with the stresses and vibrations during take off. I think someone made a good comment in this thread that a human being would need to experience the stresses of take off which means the g forces etc... are probably not as severe as you're imaging them to be.

Also if you look at more of those pictures it clearly shows how intricate the Apollo projects were.

In the last image I posted the tape is holding together more than the blankets. It's holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

In the first Lunar Lander image I provided, zoom into white external walls of the craft. You can see that the integrity of the walls are clearly in shambles and falling apart.

Billions of dollars of research and development, I'm sure...

Quote from: DDDDAts all folks on April 24, 2012, 10:32:52 AM

I'm sorry Tom but i don't see any masking tape or a craft that's not been constructed properly. As its been explained to you that 'special tape' is a plausible material to use when securing the 'blankets' to the craft, even with the stresses and vibrations during take off. I think someone made a good comment in this thread that a human being would need to experience the stresses of take off which means the g forces etc... are probably not as severe as you're imaging them to be.

Also if you look at more of those pictures it clearly shows how intricate the Apollo projects were.

In the last image I posted the tape is holding together more than the blankets. It's holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

In the first Lunar Lander image I provided, zoom into white external walls of the craft. You can see that the integrity of the walls are clearly in shambles and falling apart.

Billions of dollars of research and development, I'm sure...

That's really redundant. How did you determine that the tape is holding anything together? As far as I know, you can't reliably infer what's holding something together from a photo. Do tell us about your amazing abilities, and please no binoculars.

That's really redundant. How did you determine that the tape is holding anything together? As far as I know, you can't reliably infer what's holding something together from a photo. Do tell us about your amazing abilities, and please no binoculars.

Please zoom into the external white walls of the first Lunar Lander photo I provided. From this angle you can clearly see that the external white walls are in shambles. They don't even align up properly. NASA is using tape to hold this monstrosity of a space ship together.

Quote from: DDDDAts all folks on April 24, 2012, 10:32:52 AM

I'm sorry Tom but i don't see any masking tape or a craft that's not been constructed properly. As its been explained to you that 'special tape' is a plausible material to use when securing the 'blankets' to the craft, even with the stresses and vibrations during take off. I think someone made a good comment in this thread that a human being would need to experience the stresses of take off which means the g forces etc... are probably not as severe as you're imaging them to be.

Also if you look at more of those pictures it clearly shows how intricate the Apollo projects were.

In the last image I posted the tape is holding together more than the blankets. It's holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

In the first Lunar Lander image I provided, zoom into white external walls of the craft. You can see that the integrity of the walls are clearly in shambles and falling apart.

Billions of dollars of research and development, I'm sure...

Again looking at the pictures I can't see how you came to the conclusion that the 'tape' is holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 24, 2012, 10:43:50 AM

Quote from: DDDDAts all folks on April 24, 2012, 10:32:52 AM

I'm sorry Tom but i don't see any masking tape or a craft that's not been constructed properly. As its been explained to you that 'special tape' is a plausible material to use when securing the 'blankets' to the craft, even with the stresses and vibrations during take off. I think someone made a good comment in this thread that a human being would need to experience the stresses of take off which means the g forces etc... are probably not as severe as you're imaging them to be.

Also if you look at more of those pictures it clearly shows how intricate the Apollo projects were.

In the last image I posted the tape is holding together more than the blankets. It's holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

In the first Lunar Lander image I provided, zoom into white external walls of the craft. You can see that the integrity of the walls are clearly in shambles and falling apart.

Billions of dollars of research and development, I'm sure...

Again looking at the pictures I can't see how you came to the conclusion that the 'tape' is holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

Are those white walls not part of the craft's structure?

It's shameful that anyone would sit here defending criminals. How repulsive.

Quote from: ClockTower on April 24, 2012, 10:46:55 AM

That's really redundant. How did you determine that the tape is holding anything together? As far as I know, you can't reliably infer what's holding something together from a photo. Do tell us about your amazing abilities, and please no binoculars.

Please zoom into the external white walls of the first Lunar Lander photo I provided. You can clearly see that the external white walls are in shambles. They don't even light up properly. NASA is using tape to hold this monstrosity of a space ship together.

How absurd.

I still don't see how you can make the claim that the tape is holding the spaceship together. Please elaborate. I use tape to patch small hole, to mark a location ('X' marks the spot.), and a host of other reasons.

Then tell us how you can make the claim that it's only the tape holding the spaceship together.

It's shameful that anyone would sit here defending criminals. How repulsive.

It's shameful that anyone would sit here and falsely accuse good, hard-working people of crime. How repulsive.

I still don't see how you can make the claim that the tape is holding the spaceship together. Please elaborate. I use tape to patch small hole, to mark a location ('X' marks the spot.), and a host of other reasons.

Then tell us how you can make the claim that it's only the tape holding the spaceship together.

Tape is placed across the seams of the wall sections. It's meant to hold it together, not to "mark a location."

The whole matter is disgusting. The idea of NASA sending a space ship to the moon held together with tape is absurd beyond words.

Quote from: DDDDAts all folks on April 24, 2012, 10:53:16 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 24, 2012, 10:43:50 AM

Quote from: DDDDAts all folks on April 24, 2012, 10:32:52 AM

I'm sorry Tom but i don't see any masking tape or a craft that's not been constructed properly. As its been explained to you that 'special tape' is a plausible material to use when securing the 'blankets' to the craft, even with the stresses and vibrations during take off. I think someone made a good comment in this thread that a human being would need to experience the stresses of take off which means the g forces etc... are probably not as severe as you're imaging them to be.

Also if you look at more of those pictures it clearly shows how intricate the Apollo projects were.

In the last image I posted the tape is holding together more than the blankets. It's holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

In the first Lunar Lander image I provided, zoom into white external walls of the craft. You can see that the integrity of the walls are clearly in shambles and falling apart.

Billions of dollars of research and development, I'm sure...

Again looking at the pictures I can't see how you came to the conclusion that the 'tape' is holding the structural integrity of the craft together.

Are those white walls not part of the craft's structure?

It's shameful that anyone would sit here defending criminals. How repulsive.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm just looking at the pictures.

If you find that repulsive so be it.

And with regards to the 'white walls (sheets of white stuff)' could it be possible that those sheets were only meant to protect the craft as it left the main compartment of the rocket (dunno what it's called properly)?

Quote from: ClockTower on April 24, 2012, 10:58:07 AM

I still don't see how you can make the claim that the tape is holding the spaceship together. Please elaborate. I use tape to patch small hole, to mark a location ('X' marks the spot.), and a host of other reasons.

Then tell us how you can make the claim that it's only the tape holding the spaceship together.

Tape is placed across the seams of the wall sections. It's meant to hold it together, not to "mark a location."

The whole matter is disgusting. The idea of NASA sending a space ship to the moon held together with tape is absurd beyond words.

Again, you're make stupid assumptions. How do you know that the "tape" (You haven't even determined that it is tape) is the only thing holding the wall sections together. Could it be that there were a small leaks in the sealed cargo bay and they use tape to seal the leaks? Just because it's across a seam is not sufficient reason to conclude that it's holding anything together. Why couldn't the tape be there to mark that edge, say perhaps as a grip point during assembly?

That you make so many stupid assumptions so often is absurd beyond words.

And with regards to the 'white walls (sheets of white stuff)' could it be possible that those sheets were only meant to protect the craft as it left the main compartment of the rocket (dunno what it's called properly)?

The Spacecraft Lunar Module Adapter (SLA)

Are those white walls not part of the craft's structure?

No, they are not.  They merely covers for the aft equipment bay.

I'd like to see Tom explain why, if NASA were faking a mission and wanted to therefore make it believable, would they not make a spacecraft that looked like the public imagining of what a spacecraft looks like (like the image in Tom's head)? Why would they make something that looked like this if their only aim was to pretend? It makes no sense.

Again, you're make stupid assumptions. How do you know that the "tape" (You haven't even determined that it is tape) is the only thing holding the wall sections together. Could it be that there were a small leaks in the sealed cargo bay and they use tape to seal the leaks? Just because it's across a seam is not sufficient reason to conclude that it's holding anything together. Why couldn't the tape be there to mark that edge, say perhaps as a grip point during assembly?

That you make so many stupid assumptions so often is absurd beyond words.

The tape isn't "marking the edge as a grip point" It's clearly holding down sections of the white external wall.

And no, I'm not making assumptions. I've already provided a shot of the white wall from another angle showing how flimsy and shoddily put together it is. The tape is clearly meant to keep it from falling apart.

I've provided clear photographic evidence that the white walls of the craft are shoddy and crudely put together. I don't see how anyone can call it a stupid assumption.

No, they are not.  They merely covers for the aft equipment bay.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-16.jpg

I see a lot of tape in that junkyard of a picture. Why are the important internal components of a space ship being held together with tape?

I'd like to see Tom explain why, if NASA were faking a mission and wanted to therefore make it believable, would they not make a spacecraft that looked like the public imagining of what a spacecraft looks like (like the image in Tom's head)? Why would they make something that looked like this if their only aim was to pretend? It makes no sense.

The crafts used in the Apollo missions are not original. The concept of a Lunar Lander actually comes from an old pre-apollo movie called Frau im Mond, a silent-era movie about a mission to the moon. The three stage Saturn V, the Vehicle Assembly Building, the giant rolling launch pad which carries the Saturn V vertically, the dramatic countdown sequence, the floating water globule scenes, the spider lander, are all blatant rip-offs of Frau im Mond.

If you want to learn more about this here's a documentary for you to watch: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3186616594425246748&q=what+happened+on+the+moon&total=51&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

The topic of Frau im Mond starts at the 24 minute mark

The topic of the Apollo Lander hoax starts at 54:27

Quote from: markjo on April 24, 2012, 01:17:36 PM

No, they are not.  They merely covers for the aft equipment bay.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/misc/apmisc-LM-noID-16.jpg

I see a lot of tape in that junkyard of a picture. Why are the important internal components of a space ship being held with tape?

Perhaps because the engineers who designed the LM decided that tape was the appropriate fastener in those particular areas.  It's also nice to know that you can judge the quality of the components from just a photograph.  Keep up the good job of upholding the highest standards of Zeteticism.

Quote from: ClockTower on April 24, 2012, 11:10:22 AM

Again, you're make stupid assumptions. How do you know that the "tape" (You haven't even determined that it is tape) is the only thing holding the wall sections together. Could it be that there were a small leaks in the sealed cargo bay and they use tape to seal the leaks? Just because it's across a seam is not sufficient reason to conclude that it's holding anything together. Why couldn't the tape be there to mark that edge, say perhaps as a grip point during assembly?

That you make so many stupid assumptions so often is absurd beyond words.

The tape isn't "marking the edge as a grip point" It's clearly holding down sections of the white external wall.

And no, I'm not making assumptions. I've already provided a shot of the white wall from another angle showing how flimsy and shoddily put together it is. The tape is clearly meant to keep it from falling apart.

I've provided clear photographic evidence that the white walls of the craft are shoddy and crudely put together. I don't see how anyone can call it a stupid assumption.

<sigh> Again, do tell us how you know that the tape is clearly holding down sections of the white external wall. Do tell us how you know the there is not something else, like glue or solder, holding down sections of the white external wall. Tell us how you know that the tape is not being used for repair or marking.

Oh, and just to encourage your accuracy... saying something does not make it true--no matter how many times you say it. Saying something is clear does not meet even the vaguest notion of Science. You can't even determine if the yellow strips are tape. They could be strip magnets. They could be glued on. You don't know, and you're silly to believe without evidence, that they are tape.

Your stupid assumptions really are absurd, but you're now just repeating your unsupported claims.