NASA

I did some quick searching, and apparently the grey 'cardboard' is heat-resistant nickel-steel alloy, 0.002 millimeters thick, and the 'aluminum foil' is plastic, thinly coated with aluminum, and used in multiple layers.  In zero to light gravity and no air, tape of some kind would be adequate to hold that in place.

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Quote from: markjo on April 20, 2012, 06:11:27 PM

A real space agency wouldn't build a crudely thrown together space ship easily mistaken for the handiwork of a 13 year old child.

NASA didn't build the LEM.  Grumman did.

We've gone over this already.

Grumman contractors build and design things for the government under the auspices of government managers, and do so on government research bases. Grumman contractors are basically government employees. Contracting companies like Grumman and Lockheed are really just the government version of KForce or Volt staffing. It's a temp agency. They're headhunters which contract your services to the government. Most of the time the contracting company does not really know, nor have an interest in, what their contractors are doing for the client.

NASA designed the LEM, because Grumman temps are de-facto NASA employees.

It's like the DoD. Very few people at military research bases actually work for the government (only managers and security). The actual people designing and building the equipment on the government base are government contractors.

Look at the NAVY's new Rail Gun weapon for instance. Would you say that the NAVY designed their new Rain Gun, or would you say that so-and-so temp agency designed it? The answer is that the NAVY did, because the contractors are de-facto government employees receiving instructions from and working directly under government managers. They're the hired help.

IBM hires contractors to build their chips, Nestle hires contractors to process their candies, Gerber hires contractors to maintain their equipment, but it's still IBM, Nestle, and Gerber pulling the strings and who are credited with the end result.

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It's absurd that a zetetic would judge the space worthiness of the LEM from a photograph.

A photograph of a crudely built spacecraft is photographic evidence that it is crudely built. I don't know what your problem is.

You need to stop denying and face the facts.

A photograph of a crudely built spacecraft is photographic evidence that it is crudely built. I don't know what your problem is.

You need to stop denying and face the facts.

And aren't you the guy who told us not to believe in photographs? Or are you applying your double standards: a FE'ers can use any photograph he pleases where a RE'ers will be automatically denied the right to use a photograph.

Quote from: 29silhouette on April 20, 2012, 12:30:07 PM

I did some quick searching, and apparently the grey 'cardboard' is heat-resistant nickel-steel alloy, 0.002 millimeters thick, and the 'aluminum foil' is plastic, thinly coated with aluminum, and used in multiple layers.  In zero to light gravity and no air, tape of some kind would be adequate to hold that in place.

Note to Tim Bishop: why did you conveniently forget those elements?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 20, 2012, 09:02:01 PM

You need to stop denying and face the facts.

That's rich, especially coming from you.  Have you ever heard the saying "Don't judge a book by its cover"?   Just because the outside looks crude, that doesn't mean that there is a lot of engineering and technology under those poorly fitting covers.

(...) it looks like it was thrown together over a weekend by children.

Have you ever heard the phrase "A $6 Billion dollar engineering project usually doesn't look like a 13 year old taped it together with stationary supplies and junkyard parts"?

A photograph of a crudely put together space craft is photographic evidence of a crudely put together spacecraft. There is no denial of facts.

Have you ever heard the saying "A $6 Billion dollar engineering project usually doesn't look like a 13 year old taped it together with stationary supplies and junkyard parts"?

A photograph of a crudely put together space craft is photographic evidence of a crudely put together spacecraft. There is no denial of facts.

A photograph of a crudely put together space craft is photographic evidence of a crudely put together spacecraft. There is no denial of facts.

I note you carefully ignoring my mention that regardless of how you label the Grumman engineers, the fact is they went out and built this spacecraft and therefore in your view are members of the conspiracy if it would not function, or if they're not, then the spacecraft has to be legitimate in terms of design.
Which is it, Mr Bishop?
You won't address this.

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A photograph of a crudely built spacecraft is photographic evidence that it is crudely built. I don't know what your problem is.

You need to stop denying and face the facts.

If you're willing to accept a photograph as evidence then let me present this as evidence as well.

You say it yourself: it LOOKS LIKE. It doesn't mean it is. You're not bringing up new elements but rather practicing whisfull thinking.

Have you examined the propulsion systems of the LM?  Have you examined the guidance system of the LM?  Have you examined the electrical system of the LM?  Have you examined the life support system of the LM?  Have you examined the any part of the LM other than the exterior? 

Quote from: The Knowledge on April 21, 2012, 04:59:25 AM

I note you carefully ignoring my mention that regardless of how you label the Grumman engineers, the fact is they went out and built this spacecraft and therefore in your view are members of the conspiracy if it would not function, or if they're not, then the spacecraft has to be legitimate in terms of design.
Which is it, Mr Bishop?
You won't address this.

I see I was right.

Quote from: markjo on April 21, 2012, 05:51:28 PM

Have you examined the propulsion systems of the LM?  Have you examined the guidance system of the LM?  Have you examined the electrical system of the LM?  Have you examined the life support system of the LM?  Have you examined the any part of the LM other than the exterior? 

I would be happy to dissect the Lunar Lander if NASA were willing to put itself up to peer review; which for over 40 years have been unwilling.

But they cannot prove themselves, because we can already see that they're using TAPE to affix the heat shield to a craft which is supposed to land and launch from the surface of the moon. Would a real space agency affix the heat shield on with tape? No way. The whole thing is undeniably bogus.

What are you talking about? Of course photographic evidence of a amateurishly built space craft is evidence of an amateurishly built space craft. It is a very crude and repulsive thing.

NASA is claiming that the cardboard looking stuff are the craft's heat shields. What kind of space agency would affix heat shields to their $6 Billion dollar space ship with tape?

The whole thing is Bogus with a capital B.

But they cannot prove themselves, because we can already see that they're using TAPE to affix the heat shield to a craft which is supposed to land and launch from the surface of the moon. Would a real space agency affix the heat shield on with tape? No way. The whole thing is undeniably bogus.

The Non Disclosure Agreements at secret government facilities are a little different than the NDA's at private companies, namely that the government version ends with words in line with "... will be considered treason against the United States of America and will result in a military trial and is punishable by death."

Do you think that the solar wind is strong enough to blow these covers off?

Why would a space craft designed to only ever operate in a vacuum need anything more than tape to affix reflective covers?  Do you think that the solar wind is strong enough to blow these covers off?

Do you have any real reason why aesthetic appeal should have been such a concern that using heavier and more solid looking exterior shielding would have been would have been justified, thus requiring more materials and parts, more designing, more fabricating, more framework, bigger rockets, more fuel, etc, etc.

No real space agency would hold the heat shield and other components together with tape. How ridiculous!

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 22, 2012, 09:34:03 AM

Quote from: markjo on April 21, 2012, 05:51:28 PM

Have you examined the propulsion systems of the LM?  Have you examined the guidance system of the LM?  Have you examined the electrical system of the LM?  Have you examined the life support system of the LM?  Have you examined the any part of the LM other than the exterior? 

I would be happy to dissect the Lunar Lander if NASA were willing to put itself up to peer review; which for over 40 years have been unwilling.

Well, here's some documentation to get you started:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-LMdocs.html

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But they cannot prove themselves, because we can already see that they're using TAPE to affix the heat shield to a craft which is supposed to land and launch from the surface of the moon. Would a real space agency affix the heat shield on with tape? No way. The whole thing is undeniably bogus.

Why would a space craft designed to only ever operate in a vacuum need anything more than tape to affix reflective covers?  Do you think that the solar wind is strong enough to blow these covers off?

Quote from: markjo on April 22, 2012, 10:27:58 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 22, 2012, 09:34:03 AM

Quote from: markjo on April 21, 2012, 05:51:28 PM

Have you examined the propulsion systems of the LM?  Have you examined the guidance system of the LM?  Have you examined the electrical system of the LM?  Have you examined the life support system of the LM?  Have you examined the any part of the LM other than the exterior? 

I would be happy to dissect the Lunar Lander if NASA were willing to put itself up to peer review; which for over 40 years have been unwilling.

Well, here's some documentation to get you started:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-LMdocs.html

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But they cannot prove themselves, because we can already see that they're using TAPE to affix the heat shield to a craft which is supposed to land and launch from the surface of the moon. Would a real space agency affix the heat shield on with tape? No way. The whole thing is undeniably bogus.

Why would a space craft designed to only ever operate in a vacuum need anything more than tape to affix reflective covers?  Do you think that the solar wind is strong enough to blow these covers off?

Correct me if I'm wrong; but wasn't the lunar module used for re-entry?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 22, 2012, 11:21:53 AM

No real space agency would hold the heat shield and other components together with tape. How ridiculous!

So your evidence is... your imagination of what a "real" space agency would do?  A "real" space agency being something that you don't believe even exists.  Alright then.

So you confirm that your imagination is your only evidence.

Quote from: markjo on April 22, 2012, 10:27:58 AM

Why would a space craft designed to only ever operate in a vacuum need anything more than tape to affix reflective covers?  Do you think that the solar wind is strong enough to blow these covers off?

Please recall that the Lunar Lander has to land and blast off from the surface of the moon. It must endure extreme vibration, several g-forces, and the shock of impact. Not to mention the engine would also be blowing up dust at high velocities.

No real space agency would hold the heat shield and other components together with tape. How ridiculous!

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on April 22, 2012, 11:53:18 AM

So you confirm that your imagination is your only evidence.

I am hearing arguments that it's okay for the LEM to be poorly constructed. "Tape holding together the heat shield and other components? Who cares... why can't tape be a proper building material for space ships???"

Clearly I am speaking to children. The denialism and deliberate ignorance here is incredibly sad.

It is not opinion that tape is an improper building material for a multi-billion dollar space craft designed to explore foreign worlds. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows that a real space ship would not be crudely thrown together.

  Also, since there is no atmosphere, I see no source of extreme vibration.

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on April 22, 2012, 11:53:18 AM

So you confirm that your imagination is your only evidence.

I am hearing arguments that it's okay for the LEM to be poorly constructed. "Tape holding together the heat shield and other components? Who cares... why can't tape be a proper building material for space ships???"

Clearly I am speaking to children. The denialism and deliberate ignorance here is desperate and sad.

It is not opinion that tape is an improper building material for a multi-billion dollar space craft designed to explore foreign worlds. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows that a real space ship would not be crudely thrown together.

Tom, if the NASA conspiracy is so elaborate then why would they allow something like this to be released?