NASA

And it can be difficult to notice the difference between Mylar and wrapping paper!

Oh Tom, you have some work awaiting for you!

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 20, 2012, 09:11:54 AM

Quote from: Markjo

Saying that the LEM looks fake is a far cry from proving that it's a fake.

Markjo, I did not merely say that the lander was fake. I provided direct visual evidence that the Lunar Lander is built out of junkyard parts and stationary supplies.

Have you physically examined a lunar lander?  There is one on display at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC.  Unless you physically examine a LEM, it's impossible to say for certain exactly what materials were used in its construction.  It's also very important to understand the environment that the lander was designed to operate within before you criticize the materials that were used in its construction.

Stop supporting these criminals. Anyone can see that the Lunar Lander is crudely and hastily built. Are real space ships easily mistaken for a 13 year old's art project?

Your denialism is repulsive. I do not need to perform material tests on the materials to know that the Lunar Lander is a crudely constructed piece of crap. Anyone can see this. Why would NASA use scotch tape to hold everything together? Surely there are better ways than TAPE to hold the Lunar Lander together. The whole thing looks thrown together at the last second.

Quote from: markjo on April 20, 2012, 09:26:54 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 20, 2012, 09:11:54 AM

Quote from: Markjo

Saying that the LEM looks fake is a far cry from proving that it's a fake.

Markjo, I did not merely say that the lander was fake. I provided direct visual evidence that the Lunar Lander is built out of junkyard parts and stationary supplies.

Have you physically examined a lunar lander?  There is one on display at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC.  Unless you physically examine a LEM, it's impossible to say for certain exactly what materials were used in its construction.  It's also very important to understand the environment that the lander was designed to operate within before you criticize the materials that were used in its construction.

Stop supporting these criminals. Anyone can see that the Lunar Lander is crudely and hastily built. Are real space ships easily mistaken for a 15 year old's art project?

Your denialism is repulsive. I do not need to perform material tests on the materials to know that the Lunar Lander is a crudely constructed piece of crap. Anyone can see this. Why would NASA use scotch tape to hold everything together? Surely there are better ways than TAPE to hold the Lunar Lander together.

Still no proof. Your stubbornness is bewildering.

You really must accept that "anyone can see that..." is pointless and childish.

Still no proof. Your stubbornness is bewildering.

You really must accept that "anyone can see that..." is pointless and childish.

I did provide proof. I provided photographic evidence, not just words.

Are you denying that the materials of the Lunar Lander are crudely held together with tape? Because it clearly is. The exterior white walls of the craft don't even align properly. This is undeniable photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is a thrown together piece of crap.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 20, 2012, 11:04:05 AM

Still no proof. Your stubbornness is bewildering.

You really must accept that "anyone can see that..." is pointless and childish.

I did provide proof. I provided photographic evidence, not just words.

Are you denying that the materials of the Lunar Lander are crudely held together with tape? Because it clearly is. The exterior white walls of the craft don't even align properly. This is undeniable photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is a thrown together piece of crap.

So for you a photograph is a proof? In this case I can link you to thousands of proofs that the Earth is round.

And yes, the Lunar Lander looks crudely held with tape. But, unlike you, I am a true Zetetic. I don't jump to far-fetched conclusions.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 20, 2012, 11:04:05 AM

Still no proof. Your stubbornness is bewildering.

You really must accept that "anyone can see that..." is pointless and childish.

I did provide proof. I provided photographic evidence, not just words.

Are you denying that the materials of the Lunar Lander are crudely held together with tape? Because it clearly is. The exterior white walls of the craft don't even align properly. This is undeniable photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is a thrown together piece of crap.

Tom, since the LEM is designed to operate only in a vacuum, it hardly matters if the white walls line up just right or are just taped together.  You have to remember that avoiding excess weight was a high priority in its design.

Well, yes, markjo, it would matter. Even only in a vacuum, it is (supposed to be) a pressurized container in a vacuum. I don't think tape is going to work for you there.

Well, yes, markjo, it would matter. Even only in a vacuum, it is (supposed to be) a pressurized container in a vacuum. I don't think tape is going to work for you there.

For you, it's only tape and paper behind the first layer? Have you an X-ray vision?

Well, yes, markjo, it would matter. Even only in a vacuum, it is (supposed to be) a pressurized container in a vacuum. I don't think tape is going to work for you there.

You do understand that the covers in question are not part of the pressurized cabin, don't you?

Exactly one week after his congressional testimony and just days before he was set to publish his 500 page report exposing NASA, Thomas Baron was killed by a train. He was absolutely murdered.

From what I read so far, it was all safety violations and procedure violations.  I haven't read his 58 page report yet.  I also understand he worked for North American Aviation at Kennedy Space Center.

If he was murdered, is there any proof other than 'it fits in with a conspiracy'?  Evidence of a pay-off to local police?  Evidence of tampering with his vehicle?

I did provide proof. I provided photographic evidence, not just words.

Are you denying that the materials of the Lunar Lander are crudely held together with tape? Because it clearly is. The exterior white walls of the craft don't even align properly. This is undeniable photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is a thrown together piece of crap.

No, you linked an exterior photo of a lunar module in your wiki page with an entire three quotes (one of which being yourself) saying it looks fake, with no photos of the interior or any other proof. 

It was built to be disposable, light-weight, and used one time in light gravity and zero air-resistance.  Scotch tape?  Since when is scotch tape gold tinted?  I have some metal tape that is silver looking, and made for extreme temperatures.  I'm sure their tape isn't ordinary off-the-shelf tape from a local hardware store.

I did some quick searching, and apparently the grey 'cardboard' is heat-resistant nickel-steel alloy, 0.002 millimeters thick, and the 'aluminum foil' is plastic, thinly coated with aluminum, and used in multiple layers.  In zero to light gravity and no air, tape of some kind would be adequate to hold that in place.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 19, 2012, 03:25:40 PM

Exactly one week after his congressional testimony and just days before he was set to publish his 500 page report exposing NASA, Thomas Baron was killed by a train. He was absolutely murdered.

From what I read so far, it was all safety violations and procedure violations.  I haven't read his 58 page report yet.  I also understand he worked for North American Aviation at Kennedy Space Center.

If he was murdered, is there any proof other than 'it fits in with a conspiracy'?  Evidence of a pay-off to local police?  Evidence of tampering with his vehicle?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on April 20, 2012, 11:07:28 AM

I did provide proof. I provided photographic evidence, not just words.

Are you denying that the materials of the Lunar Lander are crudely held together with tape? Because it clearly is. The exterior white walls of the craft don't even align properly. This is undeniable photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is a thrown together piece of crap.

No, you linked an exterior photo of a lunar module in your wiki page with an entire three quotes (one of which being yourself) saying it looks fake, with no photos of the interior or any other proof. 

It was built to be disposable, light-weight, and used one time in light gravity and zero air-resistance.  Scotch tape?  Since when is scotch tape gold tinted?  I have some metal tape that is silver looking, and made for extreme temperatures.  I'm sure their tape isn't ordinary off-the-shelf tape from a local hardware store.

I did some quick searching, and apparently the grey 'cardboard' is heat-resistant nickel-steel alloy, 0.002 millimeters thick, and the 'aluminum foil' is plastic, thinly coated with aluminum, and used in multiple layers.  In zero to light gravity and no air, tape of some kind would be adequate to hold that in place.

Thanks. You're doing the reasearch that Tim Bishop doesn't bother to do.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 20, 2012, 11:04:05 AM

Still no proof. Your stubbornness is bewildering.

You really must accept that "anyone can see that..." is pointless and childish.

I did provide proof. I provided photographic evidence, not just words.

Are you denying that the materials of the Lunar Lander are crudely held together with tape? Because it clearly is. The exterior white walls of the craft don't even align properly. This is undeniable photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is a thrown together piece of crap.

You do realise that you are doubling the size of the conspiracy by adding in all the Grumman engineers who worked to build the LM? Because whether you think it went to the moon or not, build it they surely did.

Former NASA employee Thomas Baron testified before Congress that NASA was running a false space program. He was murdered exactly one week after his testimony.

People get stupid when it comes to train crossings. I have seen first had people tring to beat the train to the crossing. I also see almost everyday traffic backed up with cars stoping on the tracks. Knowing this it is just as posible that he was trying to beat the train at the crossing.

And his detailed report went 'missing'. Not to mention that a man of such intellectual stature would likely not be so stupid as to raceba train that he knew was coming.

I'll have to read more about his report going missing but do you realy think that smart people can't have a stupid moment?

Tom, since the LEM is designed to operate only in a vacuum, it hardly matters if the white walls line up just right or are just taped together.  You have to remember that avoiding excess weight was a high priority in its design.

A real space agency wouldn't build a crudely thrown together space ship easily mistaken for the handiwork of a 13 year old child.

It's absurd that you would defend such rubbish.

I'll have to read more about his report going missing but do you realy think that smart people can't have a stupid moment?

He just happened to get steamrolled by a train one week after his congressional hearing exposing NASA and only a few days before his 500 page report was set to be published?

No. He was very obviously murdered. The timing is impeccable.

Quote from: markjo on April 20, 2012, 11:16:13 AM

Tom, since the LEM is designed to operate only in a vacuum, it hardly matters if the white walls line up just right or are just taped together.  You have to remember that avoiding excess weight was a high priority in its design.

A real space agency wouldn't build a crudely thrown together space ship easily mistaken for the handiwork of a 13 year old child.

It's absurd that you would defend such rubbish.

Quote from: barrog on April 20, 2012, 03:16:50 PM

I'll have to read more about his report going missing but do you realy think that smart people can't have a stupid moment?

He just happened to get steamrolled by a train one week after his congressional hearing exposing NASA and only a few days before his 500 page report was set to be published?

No. He was very obviously murdered. The timing is impeccable.

On both points (the Lunar Module and the supposed assassination):

STILL NO PROOF

I suggest that you come back to this topic only when you have more sensible things to say. You're waisting your time and ours. And working against FET.

On both points (the Lunar Module and the supposed assassination):

STILL NO PROOF

I suggest that you come back to this topic only when you have more sensible things to say. You're waisting your time and ours. And working against FET.

Why are you still asking for proof when I already provided photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is crudely built?

In the case of Thomas Baron, a video was provided in the link confirming that he was smacked by a train just days before he was set to release his 500 page report. Newspapers and police reports are also available.

Evidence was provided. Please stop or I will report your trouble making to the forum moderators.

So was he tied to the tracks?  Pushed?

If you have any evidence of foul-play that'd be wonderful.

Zhark and Cat, Baron's death was highly convenient. And suicide allegations make it even more intriguing. Was he compelled to end it?

Was he?  Feel free to bring up actual evidence.

Zhark and Cat, Baron's death was highly convenient. And suicide allegations make it even more intriguing. Was he compelled to end it?

Highly convenient, this remains to be proved.
The conditions of this death remains to be proved.

Personaly, I don't have yet an opinion, I'm just like you, speculating.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 20, 2012, 03:40:09 PM

On both points (the Lunar Module and the supposed assassination):

STILL NO PROOF

I suggest that you come back to this topic only when you have more sensible things to say. You're waisting your time and ours. And working against FET.

Why are you still asking for proof when I already provided photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is crudely built?

In the case of Thomas Baron, a video was provided in the link confirming that he was smacked by a train just days before he was set to release his 500 page report. Newspapers and police reports are also available.

Evidence was provided. Please stop or I will report your trouble making to the forum moderators.

1. The Lunar Lander LOOKS crudely built. Is it? You haven't provent iy yet.
2. Yes the death of Thomas Baron looks suspicious. But we don't have enough data to jump to the conclusion of murder.

I can't even find a credible source that says his 500 page report was completed and then lost.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on April 20, 2012, 03:40:09 PM

On both points (the Lunar Module and the supposed assassination):

STILL NO PROOF

I suggest that you come back to this topic only when you have more sensible things to say. You're waisting your time and ours. And working against FET.

Why are you still asking for proof when I already provided photographic evidence that the Lunar Lander is crudely built?

In the case of Thomas Baron, a video was provided in the link confirming that he was smacked by a train just days before he was set to release his 500 page report. Newspapers and police reports are also available.

Evidence was provided. Please stop or I will report your trouble making to the forum moderators.

Your evidence fails to make your case. Cherry picking one photo, ignoring the others, is cowardly. Making wild statements about the construction of the LEM is useless. Every credible researcher agrees that man have walked on the Moon. We've regularly had to demonstrate your claims to be false. Remember the Apollo 16 "set" repeat from earlier this month? You failed there miserably. How about your outlandish claim that the Chinese spacewalk as fake? Remember what your source was? Epoch Times. They published this woo-woo article just last month: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/science/does-telepathy-conflict-with-science-211214.html. There's a pattern here. You make outlandish claims. Don't do your homework. Make trolling comments. Memberate. And, finally, fail to concede when proven wrong.

Please reference any newspaper or police report that declared Baron's death a murder. Surely these investigators at the time are far superior to your armchair ruminations.

Quote from: markjo on April 20, 2012, 11:16:13 AM

Tom, since the LEM is designed to operate only in a vacuum, it hardly matters if the white walls line up just right or are just taped together.  You have to remember that avoiding excess weight was a high priority in its design.

A real space agency wouldn't build a crudely thrown together space ship easily mistaken for the handiwork of a 13 year old child.

NASA didn't build the LEM.  Grumman did.

It's absurd that you would defend such rubbish.

It's absurd that a zetetic would judge the space worthiness of the LEM from a photograph.

obviously, grumman is part of the conspiracy...




 

The real questions we should be asking is why does it matter if congress knew. If this conspiracy is as total as you claim, the congress would have been in on it. I doubt NASA would just fake a lunar program without direction form Congress. I mean it's not like NASA scientists just chill in a completely government funded facility and do space craft/art projects and lie to the government which funds and provides oversight to it. Therefore, there is absolutely no logical reason for him to be murdered as the people he was reporting to should have been in on the conspiracy.

Quote from: markjo on April 20, 2012, 06:11:27 PM

A real space agency wouldn't build a crudely thrown together space ship easily mistaken for the handiwork of a 13 year old child.

NASA didn't build the LEM.  Grumman did.

We've gone over this already.

Grumman contractors build and design things for the government under the auspices of government managers, and do so on government research bases. Grumman contractors are basically government employees. Contracting companies like Grumman and Lockheed are really just the government version of KForce or Volt staffing. It's a temp agency. They're headhunters which contract your services to the government. Most of the time the contracting company does not really know, nor have an interest in, what their contractors are doing for the client.

NASA designed the LEM, because Grumman temps are de-facto NASA employees.

It's like the DoD. Very few people at military research bases actually work for the government (only managers and security). The actual people designing and building the equipment on the government base are government contractors.

Look at the NAVY's new Rail Gun weapon for instance. Would you say that the NAVY designed their new Rain Gun, or would you say that so-and-so temp agency designed it? The answer is that the NAVY did, because the contractors are de-facto government employees receiving instructions from and working directly under government managers. They're the hired help.

IBM hires contractors to build their chips, Nestle hires contractors to process their candies, Gerber hires contractors to maintain their equipment, but it's still IBM, Nestle, and Gerber pulling the strings and who are responsible for the end result.

It's absurd that a zetetic would judge the space worthiness of the LEM from a photograph.

A photograph of a crudely built spacecraft is photographic evidence that it is crudely built. I don't know what your problem is.

You need to stop denying and face the facts.

A photograph of a crudely built spacecraft is photographic evidence that it is crudely built. I don't know what your problem is.

You need to stop denying and face the facts.

Wrong, as usual.

If you cannot make the difference between appearances and reality, you are led to believe anything.

And aren't you the guy who told us not to believe in photographs? Or are you applying your double standards: a FE'ers can use any photograph he pleases where a RE'ers will be automatically denied the right to use a photograph.