North Korea foiled by UA

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2012, 03:18:09 PM »
The point is I'm right, and you guys are wrong as usual.

All this proves is that you're extremely lazy.  That's nothing to be pleased about.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Graff

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2012, 03:20:07 PM »
I've forgotten what the point of this even is.

The point is I'm right, and you guys are wrong per usual.
You still haven't provided any proof of your claims. As usual.
You somehow just know without any information or proof. As usual.
And you claim to be right without any reason. As usual.

Tom, you are starting to get a might annoying. I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously anymore.
God bless the Enclave.

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Rushy

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2012, 03:37:21 PM »
Chalk up another victory for FES.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2012, 03:42:35 PM »
Chalk up another victory for FES.

Yes, another lazy albeit successful troll.  You and Tom are doing great work eroding even the faintest hint of legitimacy left in the FES.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Graff

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2012, 03:43:08 PM »
Chalk up another victory for FES.
Under what cause?
Because due to Tom's lack of proof, and unjustified proclamation of success (as well as your own), I would say that this is a victory for RET, as noone is capable of answering questions, or providing proof, and as such, they simply resort to "I'm right, you are wrong".
God bless the Enclave.

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2012, 05:07:17 PM »
Chalk up another victory for FES.

Seriously thank you for this post, it made me laugh so hard.

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Tausami

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2012, 08:41:32 PM »
I'd yell at someone for low content posting, but I wouldn't know where to begin. Carry on.

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squevil

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2012, 08:07:54 AM »
If nukes were real and the earth was a spinning ball it would have been over a long, long time ago.

Give all praise and glory to The Creator for He is the source of all that is Good.

Science and Technology will never create a better world for us. We will never evolve into a higher consciousness by acting against the Will of Our Father.

Diet Sodas Kill and Water Cures.

Anti-Depressants Kill and Marijuana Cures.

Hate Kills and Love Cures.

The Beast Kills and Our Savior Saves.

God Bless You people I love all of you even if you hate me. I know I come off as an arrogant troll but that's the internet talking not me. I don't have all the answers, but I love life and want the best for all of you.

I have faith that the world is heading in the right direction and One Day we will all live together in Peace and Honor Our Father, The Creator in Heaven, who Word is eternal and whose Mercy endureth forever.

If the world ends and we kill each other it's because we are dumbasses not because God is Bad. He gave us all the tools, love, freedom, land, food, water, wisdom and chances we could ever need and we still act like fucking idiots. He even told us how it was going to end if we didn't get it together and start loving eachother and I believe we can do it.

All we have to do is be honest and realistic, share and care, love each other and help out when we can.

your such a twat, sorry guys but ill hapily take a warning for saying what your thinking

Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2012, 09:09:50 AM »
space travel IS possible,
the US and Russia had many failures as well. As India and China have had lately. 

give them time, and keep going to Walmart, and they will achieve orbit soon.

Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2012, 01:10:29 PM »
No I meant built improperly, like containing a fault, I am not speaking about their blueprints, I am suggesting a possible variation with those.  All you need is one bolt to fail, or a second stage to fail to ignite.

Why is it so hard for you to admit that its even possible you are wrong.  There are more possible explanations than just "IT CAAAAN"T BE DUUUNN!", and yet you claim to know the exact reason.

North Korea is intentionally starving its people to it can pour untold millions into super weapons.

They've been failing to reach orbit for years. They have successfully tested long range rockets in the past. It isn't a technology problem.

I know this will probably go in one ear and out the other, but you're jumping to a conclusion based around what you want that conclusion to be, not on what the facts are. Do you know at what point in its launch and trajectory the rocket disintegrated? If not then how can you come to the conclusion you have?

Could it be possible that North Korea suck at building rockets?

Could it be possible that North Korea deliberately destroyed the rocket for political reasons?

Could it be possible that other countries (such as the US) keep sabotaging North Korea's attempts to launch rockets into space?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 03:53:09 PM by DDDDAts all folks »

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squevil

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2012, 03:34:29 PM »
and remeber that US space missions can also go badly wrong, quite famously infact. mind you maybe the teacher they killed was teaching 'bad science' in class.

Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2012, 03:53:48 PM »
I don't know if the N. Korea's failures justify FET, however I believe nothing costs billions of dollars to make. Orbis can you please provide an entire list of expanses that goes into building a rocket and quote the production price? Don't just say it costs a billion just because media is saying it. You can sell something for a billion that does not mean it costs that much to make it. An average price for Gucci shoes is 500 dollars. Do you know how much it costs to make them? No more then 20 dollars.
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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2012, 04:32:52 PM »
I don't know if the N. Korea's failures justify FET, however I believe nothing costs billions of dollars to make. Orbis can you please provide an entire list of expanses that goes into building a rocket and quote the production price? Don't just say it costs a billion just because media is saying it. You can sell something for a billion that does not mean it costs that much to make it. An average price for Gucci shoes is 500 dollars. Do you know how much it costs to make them? No more then 20 dollars.

Haha someone is not an economics major.

No I cannot give you an entire list of expenses going to to building an intercontinental ballistic missile, especially when i have no idea what was in the nose cone.  Designer shoes are not a great comparison to ICBMs, although i never thought i would actually have to tell someone that. 

In addition, i was not really referring to a single missile, and if i did i misspoke.  They are usually built in numbers, as a sort of program.  The point is that they are hugely expensive, and extremely complicated objects that are prone to failure when they are not sufficiently funded or engineered.  Take for example the N1 rocket, the soviets could never match the engine capabilities of the Saturn 5, they simply did not have the tech or the know how, and so they tried to generate the power with 30 smaller rockets, and it failed multiple times.

And you are correct, i usually don't trust the media very much, but unfortunately that's really all we have as Americans.  Surprisingly the North Koreans really dont tell us much about their inner workings.  But I am starting to think we might have a man on the inside, Mr Tom.

In terms of how i know that rocket programs cost tons of cash, well just look at who is able to participate in large numbers.  The European Union, the Russians, and the Americans are the biggest players, and even the Americans are reducing their space program because of how hugely expensive it can be.  If it were cheap they would be launching many more, not just one every once in a while.

Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2012, 04:51:44 PM »
I don't know if the N. Korea's failures justify FET, however I believe nothing costs billions of dollars to make. Orbis can you please provide an entire list of expanses that goes into building a rocket and quote the production price? Don't just say it costs a billion just because media is saying it. You can sell something for a billion that does not mean it costs that much to make it. An average price for Gucci shoes is 500 dollars. Do you know how much it costs to make them? No more then 20 dollars.

Haha someone is not an economics major.

No I cannot give you an entire list of expenses going to to building an intercontinental ballistic missile, especially when i have no idea what was in the nose cone.  Designer shoes are not a great comparison to ICBMs, although i never thought i would actually have to tell someone that. 

In addition, i was not really referring to a single missile, and if i did i misspoke.  They are usually built in numbers, as a sort of program.  The point is that they are hugely expensive, and extremely complicated objects that are prone to failure when they are not sufficiently funded or engineered.  Take for example the N1 rocket, the soviets could never match the engine capabilities of the Saturn 5, they simply did not have the tech or the know how, and so they tried to generate the power with 30 smaller rockets, and it failed multiple times.

And you are correct, i usually don't trust the media very much, but unfortunately that's really all we have as Americans.  Surprisingly the North Koreans really dont tell us much about their inner workings.  But I am starting to think we might have a man on the inside, Mr Tom.

In terms of how i know that rocket programs cost tons of cash, well just look at who is able to participate in large numbers.  The European Union, the Russians, and the Americans are the biggest players, and even the Americans are reducing their space program because of how hugely expensive it can be.  If it were cheap they would be launching many more, not just one every once in a while.


If you negate the development costs (by using a pre-designed and tested system) then it becomes alot cheaper to send something in space.

North Korea where probably (can't be sure) using rocket designs used by other countries which would have reduce the cost of the program significantly.

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Graff

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2012, 05:29:17 PM »
I don't know if the N. Korea's failures justify FET, however I believe nothing costs billions of dollars to make. Orbis can you please provide an entire list of expanses that goes into building a rocket and quote the production price? Don't just say it costs a billion just because media is saying it. You can sell something for a billion that does not mean it costs that much to make it. An average price for Gucci shoes is 500 dollars. Do you know how much it costs to make them? No more then 20 dollars.

Haha someone is not an economics major.

No I cannot give you an entire list of expenses going to to building an intercontinental ballistic missile, especially when i have no idea what was in the nose cone.  Designer shoes are not a great comparison to ICBMs, although i never thought i would actually have to tell someone that. 

In addition, i was not really referring to a single missile, and if i did i misspoke.  They are usually built in numbers, as a sort of program.  The point is that they are hugely expensive, and extremely complicated objects that are prone to failure when they are not sufficiently funded or engineered.  Take for example the N1 rocket, the soviets could never match the engine capabilities of the Saturn 5, they simply did not have the tech or the know how, and so they tried to generate the power with 30 smaller rockets, and it failed multiple times.

And you are correct, i usually don't trust the media very much, but unfortunately that's really all we have as Americans.  Surprisingly the North Koreans really dont tell us much about their inner workings.  But I am starting to think we might have a man on the inside, Mr Tom.

In terms of how i know that rocket programs cost tons of cash, well just look at who is able to participate in large numbers.  The European Union, the Russians, and the Americans are the biggest players, and even the Americans are reducing their space program because of how hugely expensive it can be.  If it were cheap they would be launching many more, not just one every once in a while.


If you negate the development costs (by using a pre-designed and tested system) then it becomes alot cheaper to send something in space.

North Korea where probably (can't be sure) using rocket designs used by other countries which would have reduce the cost of the program significantly.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

Anyway; if North Korea is using pre-existing designs, it is likely old Soviet ones.
But, yes. Still will be pricey. It isn't like these things are mass-produced.
You have to pay, not only for the raw material, but for the factory to build them. After all, designing it is only half the problem. Or possibly less, depending.
Not to mention that they no doubt would have to pay for those designs.
God bless the Enclave.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2012, 06:02:47 PM »
I think the biggest issue here was that the North Korean engineers and scientists are just simply incompetent.
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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #76 on: April 15, 2012, 03:27:35 AM »
I think the biggest issue here was that the North Korean engineers and scientists are just simply incompetent.

I'm not sure about that.

Although I am putting my tinfoil hat on for this, I think it could be a result of sabotage.

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Hazbollah

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2012, 04:30:37 AM »
Maybe not sabotage, things do go wrong. One thing that can be ruled out is it having been shot down.
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The Knowledge

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2012, 04:32:11 AM »
I think the biggest issue here was that the North Korean engineers and scientists are just simply incompetent.

Probably correct, and looking at the history of rocketry even the most competent rocket engineers suffered many failures. Look at the early American rocket program for evidence of that.
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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2012, 01:25:57 PM »
I was not comparing shoes to Missiles. I was simply trying to show how market works. Nations are not involved in nuclear missiles development not because they don't have the money but because they are prevented from doing so by political superpowers such as U.S. and Russia. I'm sure nations such as United Arab Emirates can easily afford to build a nuclear missile, but the global politics simply won't let them do so.
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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2012, 03:48:09 PM »

Quote
I was not comparing shoes to Missiles.
"You can sell something for a billion that does not mean it costs that much to make it. An average price for Gucci shoes is 500 dollars."

Yes you were.  You suggested that because Gucci shoes are sold on a huge margin, so too could be ballistic missiles.  But that is a stupid comparison. 

Quote
I was simply trying to show how market works.

If you think that the Ballistic/rocket market has anything in common with Gucci shoes, or that your previous comment was anything close to valid, then you really should not be trying to show anyone anything regarding economics.

Quote
Nations are not involved in nuclear missiles development not because they don't have the money but because they are prevented from doing so by political superpowers such as U.S. and Russia. I'm sure nations such as United Arab Emirates can easily afford to build a nuclear missile, but the global politics simply won't let them do so.

Irrelevant. North Korea does not seem to care one bit what the world says.

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Graff

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2012, 04:24:03 PM »
You also must account for the factory cost.
You not only have to pay for the rocket, but the tools to build it.
And workers, and designers, scientists, ect.
Oh, and if we assume they are using old pre-existing designs, they'd have to pay for those too.
And facilities. And the launch pad. And the control. And base security.
The price isn't limited to the rocket alone.
God bless the Enclave.

Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2012, 05:44:10 PM »

Quote
I was not comparing shoes to Missiles.
"You can sell something for a billion that does not mean it costs that much to make it. An average price for Gucci shoes is 500 dollars."

Yes you were.  You suggested that because Gucci shoes are sold on a huge margin, so too could be ballistic missiles.  But that is a stupid comparison. 

Quote
I was simply trying to show how market works.

If you think that the Ballistic/rocket market has anything in common with Gucci shoes, or that your previous comment was anything close to valid, then you really should not be trying to show anyone anything regarding economics.

Quote
Nations are not involved in nuclear missiles development not because they don't have the money but because they are prevented from doing so by political superpowers such as U.S. and Russia. I'm sure nations such as United Arab Emirates can easily afford to build a nuclear missile, but the global politics simply won't let them do so.

Irrelevant. North Korea does not seem to care one bit what the world says.


So you don't think missiles can be sold at a marked up price? I'm still waiting for you to give me the price list of "ingredients" Oh yeah you said you don't know.
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Graff

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2012, 06:19:57 PM »
So you don't think missiles can be sold at a marked up price? I'm still waiting for you to give me the price list of "ingredients" Oh yeah you said you don't know.
We can't prove to you it doesn't cost billions, you can't prove to us that it doesn't.
However:
We can give you realistic reasons why it would cost billions, but you can't.
And, again,
You also must account for the factory cost.
You not only have to pay for the rocket, but the tools to build it.
And workers, and designers, scientists, ect.
Oh, and if we assume they are using old pre-existing designs, they'd have to pay for those too.
And facilities. And the launch pad. And the control. And base security.
The price isn't limited to the rocket alone.
God bless the Enclave.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: North Korea foiled by UA
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2012, 07:46:02 PM »
In my opinion, the North Korean rocket failure doesn't show that they're not in on the Conspiracy any more than the Challenger/Colombia disasters show that NASA isn't in on the Conspiracy. Even apparent failures may be successful in non-apparent ways.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord