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If space is not real, what is gravity?

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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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If space is not real, what is gravity?
« on: May 15, 2012, 08:44:09 PM »
Gravity is, as defined by modern science, spacial compression resulting from spacial displacement by mass. If there is no space, then space cannot be displaced by and converge upon matter. So what is gravity, if not spacial displacement?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM »
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 08:58:41 PM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Are you referring to Flat Earth Theory's spinoff theory that Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 meters per square second?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 09:00:20 PM »
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 15, 2012, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Are you referring to Flat Earth Theory's spinoff theory that Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 meters per square second?

Not specifically; frankly I just have no idea what it is that you're referring to.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 09:03:46 PM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 09:00:20 PM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 15, 2012, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Are you referring to Flat Earth Theory's spinoff theory that Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 meters per square second?

Not specifically; frankly I just have no idea what it is that you're referring to.

I apologize; as a physicist, I suppose I have a rather technical knowledge of cosmology and planetary science. What aren't you clear on? I'd be happy to make any clarification.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 09:11:11 PM »
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 15, 2012, 09:03:46 PM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 09:00:20 PM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 15, 2012, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Are you referring to Flat Earth Theory's spinoff theory that Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 meters per square second?

Not specifically; frankly I just have no idea what it is that you're referring to.

I apologize; as a physicist, I suppose I have a rather technical knowledge of cosmology and planetary science. What aren't you clear on? I'd be happy to make any clarification.

No, I had no problem understanding what you were saying in the OP.  My question is where you got this load of bollocks that space doesn't exist?
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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Son of Orospu

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 09:15:28 PM »
What is so hard to understand about someone not believing that gravity exists?
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 09:21:16 PM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 09:11:11 PM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 15, 2012, 09:03:46 PM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 09:00:20 PM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 15, 2012, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Are you referring to Flat Earth Theory's spinoff theory that Earth is accelerating upwards at 9.8 meters per square second?

Not specifically; frankly I just have no idea what it is that you're referring to.

I apologize; as a physicist, I suppose I have a rather technical knowledge of cosmology and planetary science. What aren't you clear on? I'd be happy to make any clarification.

No, I had no problem understanding what you were saying in the OP.  My question is where you got this load of bollocks that space doesn't exist?

Oh, I apologize for misunderstanding current FET. Last version of the FET I read claimed that space is a myth, and that stars and such are set in a dome a few kilometers above Earth, not unlike the Ptolemaic model. I do indeed believe that space is real.
How, if space does indeed exist, and Earth is moving rapidly through it, but is flat, does FET account for Earth's mass not only remaining constant, but slightly increasing?
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The Knowledge

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 04:22:33 AM »
Quote from: jroa on May 15, 2012, 09:15:28 PM
What is so hard to understand about someone not believing that gravity exists?

It's hard to understand why someone doesn't believe the Cavendish experiment but believes a snake oil salesman standing in a canal, and why you don't seem bothered at all by the variance of g in different places on earth. If I had an enquiring mind I'd want to know why that happens. But hey, maybe you have no more curiosity about the nature of the world around you than a sheep.
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2012, 11:54:38 AM »
Quote from: The Knowledge on May 16, 2012, 04:22:33 AM
Quote from: jroa on May 15, 2012, 09:15:28 PM
What is so hard to understand about someone not believing that gravity exists?

It's hard to understand why someone doesn't believe the Cavendish experiment but believes a snake oil salesman standing in a canal, and why you don't seem bothered at all by the variance of g in different places on earth. If I had an enquiring mind I'd want to know why that happens. But hey, maybe you have no more curiosity about the nature of the world around you than a sheep.

And let's not forget that negation of gravity also negates a line of physics formulas which are quite frequently used. If you don't believe in gravity, good luck finding the period of a pendulum.
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markjo

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 12:16:27 PM »
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 16, 2012, 11:54:38 AM
Quote from: The Knowledge on May 16, 2012, 04:22:33 AM
Quote from: jroa on May 15, 2012, 09:15:28 PM
What is so hard to understand about someone not believing that gravity exists?

It's hard to understand why someone doesn't believe the Cavendish experiment but believes a snake oil salesman standing in a canal, and why you don't seem bothered at all by the variance of g in different places on earth. If I had an enquiring mind I'd want to know why that happens. But hey, maybe you have no more curiosity about the nature of the world around you than a sheep.

And let's not forget that negation of gravity also negates a line of physics formulas which are quite frequently used. If you don't believe in gravity, good luck finding the period of a pendulum.

FE'ers are funny in their selective acceptance of relativity.  They like to trot out how the equivalence principle shows that acceleration and gravity are locally indistinguishable but steadfastly reject the notion that mass warps space-time causing gravity.
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 02:05:51 PM »
Quote from: markjo on May 16, 2012, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 16, 2012, 11:54:38 AM
Quote from: The Knowledge on May 16, 2012, 04:22:33 AM
Quote from: jroa on May 15, 2012, 09:15:28 PM
What is so hard to understand about someone not believing that gravity exists?

It's hard to understand why someone doesn't believe the Cavendish experiment but believes a snake oil salesman standing in a canal, and why you don't seem bothered at all by the variance of g in different places on earth. If I had an enquiring mind I'd want to know why that happens. But hey, maybe you have no more curiosity about the nature of the world around you than a sheep.

And let's not forget that negation of gravity also negates a line of physics formulas which are quite frequently used. If you don't believe in gravity, good luck finding the period of a pendulum.

FE'ers are funny in their selective acceptance of relativity.  They like to trot out how the equivalence principle shows that acceleration and gravity are locally indistinguishable but steadfastly reject the notion that mass warps space-time causing gravity.

And of course, this makes theorization on the origin of planets and stars an absolute nightmare. Without spacial warping and gravity, you basically need the 'hand of God' to end up with anything but a bunch of disjointed quarks, as negating gravity implies that one also negates nuclear force. This also gives question to how many aspects of EM force and quantum physics FErs accredit.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2012, 06:41:13 AM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Read your Q&A: gravity exists, at least for tides.
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“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2012, 07:42:09 AM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 06:41:13 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Read your Q&A: gravity exists, at least for tides.

At least for tides? So the entire Flat Earth world is shaped on the principal that there's no gravity, just rapid upward acceleration, except for tides, when there's suddenly gravity again? The equations you people use must be astoundingly complex, to have a singular case for gravity like that.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 08:57:23 AM »
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 21, 2012, 07:42:09 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 06:41:13 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Read your Q&A: gravity exists, at least for tides.

At least for tides? So the entire Flat Earth world is shaped on the principal that there's no gravity, just rapid upward acceleration, except for tides, when there's suddenly gravity again? The equations you people use must be astoundingly complex, to have a singular case for gravity like that.

There are no equations in FET. The only one I've seen is a copy of Einstein's for UA.

And they call it Flat Earth Theory!
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“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 09:02:44 AM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 08:57:23 AM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 21, 2012, 07:42:09 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 06:41:13 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on May 15, 2012, 08:55:06 PM
Gravity doesn't exist.  Also, wut?  Also, please read the FAQ.  Welcome to FES.

Read your Q&A: gravity exists, at least for tides.

At least for tides? So the entire Flat Earth world is shaped on the principal that there's no gravity, just rapid upward acceleration, except for tides, when there's suddenly gravity again? The equations you people use must be astoundingly complex, to have a singular case for gravity like that.

There are no equations in FET. The only one I've seen is a copy of Einstein's for UA.

And they call it Flat Earth Theory!

Wait, they call this a theory but they have no mathematical support for it? I knew that the geometry was skewed, but I always assumed there'd been some brilliant mathematician that at least suggested a semi-justification for FET based in physics. Wow. No formulas and equations. That makes FET sound more like a religion than a science. No offense, of course, to any subscribers, I'm just surprised. The supporters of the 'theory' act like it's such a scientific matter.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 09:04:57 AM »
For them, Earth is the center of the solar system, so the movement of the planets as we can observe them from Earth is due to "celestial gears".
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“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 09:06:15 AM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 09:04:57 AM
For them, Earth is the center of the solar system, so the movement of the planets as we can observe them from Earth is due to "celestial gears".

Earnestly? Wow, that's scientific.
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Lorddave

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 09:10:53 AM »
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 21, 2012, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 09:04:57 AM
For them, Earth is the center of the solar system, so the movement of the planets as we can observe them from Earth is due to "celestial gears".

Earnestly? Wow, that's scientific.

Yeah it's weird but that's only because they start from the assumption that the Earth is flat and work from there.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
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EmperorZhark

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 09:11:52 AM »
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 21, 2012, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 09:04:57 AM
For them, Earth is the center of the solar system, so the movement of the planets as we can observe them from Earth is due to "celestial gears".

Earnestly? Wow, that's scientific.

Yep. And the best one: they aren't able to produce a FE map! Of course, they can't, it's impossible, but they keep on giving you RE maps telling that they are FE maps.
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iWitness

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 09:13:08 AM »
This is not my theory, but the most logical that I have heard. Basically, Air pressure is what keeps us all down like water pressure can make objects sink or float on top. Air pressure allows airplanes and birds to fly. We are stuck between the air and the ground, it all just works itself out like that. Neat huh.
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Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.
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MrT

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 09:20:01 AM »
Quote from: MrT on May 02, 2012, 11:26:12 AM
Quote from: iWitness on May 02, 2012, 09:05:06 AM

I think it's more related to air pressure than anything. That explains why airplanes can fly. Water pressure makes things sink down below and allows ships to float on top.

How would air pressure cause you to be held against the Earth?  Air pressure doesn't just push down on things, it presses from all sides.  Also, the denser the atmosphere the more pressure, so the lower you go the higher the pressure (same with water).  Because of this, pressure on the bottom on an object is actually higher than the pressure on the top.  This pressure imbalance will cause the object to float if the object is light enough, such as with a boat in the water (or a balloon on the air).  It certainly doesn't follow that air pressure would hold us down.

Honestly, this theory would be easily proven if objects in a vacuum chamber were weightless (or close, depending on how much more than anything else you believe air pressure is responsible).

iWitness, I've seen you post this theory before (by the way, since you say it isn't yours, where did you hear it?).  I still say it makes no sense and I wonder if you have given any thought to what I posted above last time you brought it up?
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The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 09:22:15 AM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 09:11:52 AM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 21, 2012, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 09:04:57 AM
For them, Earth is the center of the solar system, so the movement of the planets as we can observe them from Earth is due to "celestial gears".

Earnestly? Wow, that's scientific.

Yep. And the best one: they aren't able to produce a FE map! Of course, they can't, it's impossible, but they keep on giving you RE maps telling that they are FE maps.

I've seen a basic idea of the Flat Earth map, but of course it's hand-drawn. I imagine there aren't many Flat Earth cartographers. Few people can support FET while taking satellite images and making laser analyses of landscapes, I would imagine.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2012, 09:26:12 AM »
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 21, 2012, 09:22:15 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 09:11:52 AM
Quote from: Grandiloquent Granduncle on May 21, 2012, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on May 21, 2012, 09:04:57 AM
For them, Earth is the center of the solar system, so the movement of the planets as we can observe them from Earth is due to "celestial gears".

Earnestly? Wow, that's scientific.

Yep. And the best one: they aren't able to produce a FE map! Of course, they can't, it's impossible, but they keep on giving you RE maps telling that they are FE maps.

No, they just take RE maps. I suspect them to be a bit on the lazy side.


I've seen a basic idea of the Flat Earth map, but of course it's hand-drawn. I imagine there aren't many Flat Earth cartographers. Few people can support FET while taking satellite images and making laser analyses of landscapes, I would imagine.
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2012, 09:29:38 AM »
Oh well. It's easy to believe Earth's flat if you never leave the underside of your rock to actually do some research and travel. Science is based on scientific explanation of observation.
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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2012, 10:15:26 AM »
Quote from: iWitness on May 21, 2012, 09:13:08 AM
This is not my theory, but the most logical that I have heard. Basically, Air pressure is what keeps us all down like water pressure can make objects sink or float on top. Air pressure allows airplanes and birds to fly. We are stuck between the air and the ground, it all just works itself out like that. Neat huh.

Water pressure does not make things sink or float, density does.  I am more dense than air so i sink through it.  I am more dense than water so i sink through it.  There is a point where pressure can increase the density of an object to the point where you cannot pass through it, which is what would happen if you tried to land on a gas giant.  Provided you were not killed in the process (which you would be) you would just sink until your density matched that of your surroundings.

Boats can float because their shape makes them less dense than water.  Planes do use air pressure to fly though, by moving air more quickly over the top of the wing you decrease the air pressure their, and that provides lift.
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Grandiloquent Granduncle

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Re: If space is not real, what is gravity?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2012, 10:19:55 AM »
Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on May 21, 2012, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: iWitness on May 21, 2012, 09:13:08 AM
This is not my theory, but the most logical that I have heard. Basically, Air pressure is what keeps us all down like water pressure can make objects sink or float on top. Air pressure allows airplanes and birds to fly. We are stuck between the air and the ground, it all just works itself out like that. Neat huh.

Water pressure does not make things sink or float, density does.  I am more dense than air so i sink through it.  I am more dense than water so i sink through it.  There is a point where pressure can increase the density of an object to the point where you cannot pass through it, which is what would happen if you tried to land on a gas giant.  Provided you were not killed in the process (which you would be) you would just sink until your density matched that of your surroundings.

Boats can float because their shape makes them less dense than water.  Planes do use air pressure to fly though, by moving air more quickly over the top of the wing you decrease the air pressure their, and that provides lift.

Very nicely put
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