Energy Source of the Sun

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jwu

  • 14
Energy Source of the Sun
« on: October 02, 2006, 04:57:46 AM »
Just wondering...what is the energy source of the sun according to the FE model?

Nuclear fusion seems unlikely, as a sphere of this diameter couldn't maintain sufficient pressure inside from its own gravity in order to start and maintain such a reaction.

Moreover, the entire mass of the sun, if we assume a density of 100 tons per cubic metre, could only fuel it for another 115.000 years if the rate at which the earth receives energy remains constant. And that's even assuming a total destruction of the mass, e.g. by means of antimatter, while ordinary fusion is orders of magnitude less efficient. In ordinary nuclear fusion about 0.37% of the mass is converted into energy, this means that the sun would run out of fuel for DT+T fusion in 430 years.

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mjk

  • 269
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2006, 05:17:45 AM »
a giant firefly.  obviously.
quote="diegodraw"]you never mentioned anything about antagonizing naive idiots who have reason to believe they should defend what everyone already knows is logical....Not like anybody would ever have fun doing that, of course[/quote]

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jwu

  • 14
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2006, 05:33:37 AM »
Ah, the topic was brought up before, my bad...:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5049

Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2006, 05:40:06 AM »
This thread will be deleted by Dogplatter soon.
quote="Dogplatter"]
Penguins were actually created in the 1960's by Russian scientists who combined the DNA of otters and birds.  [/quote]


LOL

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Erasmus

  • The Elder Ones
  • 4242
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 02:22:38 PM »
Firstly, where did you get your numbers (e.g. 115 year limit)?  Did you calculate the energy output of the sun assuming it to be 93 million miles away, or 3000 miles away?

Anyway, my speculative suggestion for the source of solar energy:

The sun is slowly collapsing under its own weight.  As it collapses, the infalling material loses gravitational potential energy, which is converted into light and heat.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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dysfunction

  • The Elder Ones
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Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 03:24:27 PM »
So the sun is actually a Helmholtz star? Interesting. Didn't Kelvin give the sun an upper age limit of ~18 million years based on the sun being powered by gravitational contraction? This was, of course, based on the sun having a mass of ~2 x 10^30 kg.
the cake is a lie

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jwu

  • 14
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2006, 04:56:58 AM »
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Firstly, where did you get your numbers (e.g. 115 year limit)? Did you calculate the energy output of the sun assuming it to be 93 million miles away, or 3000 miles away?
My original calculations were mistaken, the upper limit is increased to 430 years. I used a too small figure for the percentage of matter that is converted into energy during nuclear fusion.

I used the usual figure of energy that the earth receives from the sun, 1.8*10^17 watt if i recall correctly. This does not in any way depend on the distance, as excess energy which is radiated away into space is not considered, in that sense it even is geared towards that spotlight model - every single joule of energy contained in the sun is considered there.

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The sun is slowly collapsing under its own weight. As it collapses, the infalling material loses gravitational potential energy, which is converted into light and heat.
What density do you propose for the sun? It'd have to be enormous for such a small thing to generate sufficient gravity and at the same time have sufficient mass that loses potential energy, especially as the "falling distance" is rather short.

I think this would actually make a testable prediction...such an enormous mass would have measurable gravitational pull on objects on the earth as well, which changes over the course of a day as the sun moves over it, thus changing its location and distance.

Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2006, 11:52:14 PM »
I which people could explain their case a little clearer.

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I think this would actually make a testable prediction...such an enormous mass would have measurable gravitational pull on objects on the earth as well, which changes over the course of a day as the sun moves over it, thus changing its location and distance.


The sun moves over the Earth ? This would cause the Earth to be drawn into the sun ?

As it stand the sun does cause a gravitional effect on the Earth.

Gravity bends the fabric of time-space, similar to placing a bowling ball on a mattress.

The sun bends the time space fabric causing a cyclonic drag upon nearby objects that are sitting within the proximity to the sun.

THe erath is spriling around the sun but at the same time is slowly moving closer towards it (very slowly).

The sun is not even close to being exhausted of its hydrogen and helium reactions.

Solace our system in the universe was formed roughly over 5 billion years ago, that includes the formation of our sun, which was much hotter then.

The sun keeps on exploding in and out of hydrogen into helium fussions. This causes photons to radiate from the sun. Slowly the energy lost from the suns material causes heavier elemenst to be formed, such as iron.

As the hydrogen runs out, the sun will begin to die. With stars in general this can happen gradualy as the star gets dimmer and dimmer or spectucaly with the advent of a supernova.

Our star is a medium sized one, and as the iron at the center of the sun increase the out layers expand forming a red giant . As it expands the very outer layers release gasses which are known as planetry nebulas they come apart. Because the sun is unable to fuse any more hydrogen with helium it collapses and shrinks down in size becoming what is known as a white dwarf.

It is predicted that the earth still has  another 5 billion yrs left of its hydrogen suply. Once this runs out it "good by soloar system, planet earth and the life that is on it at the time".

This evidence is not infered  by measuring joules or mass, but by observatiosn of other stars and how they behaviour.

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jwu

  • 14
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2006, 04:02:54 AM »
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The sun is not even close to being exhausted of its hydrogen and helium reactions.
The conventional 1.3 million kilometres diameter sun, yes...i'm referring to the 32 miles diameter FE model sun.

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As it stand the sun does cause a gravitional effect on the Earth.
Yep, and a sun that is massive enough to contain fuel for a long time and only 3000 kilometres from the earth would have significant gravitational pull.
And since both the distance and the direction of the sun in the FE model changes significantly over the duration of a day, it should be easily possibe to detect this. E.g. at noon, when the sun is right above one, one should appear to be lighter than at night, when the sun is much farther away and its pull is not in the opposite direction of the proposed accelleration but nearly orthogonal to it.

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beast

  • 2997
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2006, 07:28:51 PM »
I SEE. Yeah i was describing the version they teach at school. The one they want you to beleive.

You know i have actualy noticed that at night you become heavier. I though it was due to the cold causing the CO2 to sink to the ground have a slight effect on ones body also. but now you mention it i can see your point of view.

Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2006, 07:30:23 PM »
The last post was me. But i share computers with beast (we work at the same place)

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beast

  • 2997
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2006, 07:31:36 PM »
lol!

It's a conspiracy... ;)

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Jubei

Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2006, 08:23:02 PM »
Wow, two people in the same zip code believe in the flat earth. That must be a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance!

Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2006, 08:45:38 PM »
you think they beleive in flat earth? does posting on this form make you belive in flat earth?
well, then you must  :wink:
quote="DiegoDraw"]"And Moses said unto his brethren: 'The Earth is flat!...biznatches,'" [/quote]
DOT INFO

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Jubei

Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2006, 10:04:12 PM »
Yes, I think they believe in a flat earth. Am I wrong?

No, posting to this forum does not make you believe in flat earth.

Well then, I must not.

Any more questions?

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jwu

  • 14
Energy Source of the Sun
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2006, 07:01:29 AM »
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You know i have actualy noticed that at night you become heavier. I though it was due to the cold causing the CO2 to sink to the ground have a slight effect on ones body also. but now you mention it i can see your point of view.
That should be measurable, shouldn't it?

A weight put onto a scale should give a heavier reading at night than at day. The actual strength of the effect of course depends on the proposed mass of the FE sun.

So...what density do you propose for the sun?