Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)

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Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« on: March 06, 2012, 01:18:49 PM »
Hi people, I am Duff.  How goes it?

Anyhow, I've been lurking on here for a while, trying to find out what it's all about, what people say, ect..  (And also to find out if it was a joke, obviously you don't take it that way).  Anyhow, I love conspiracies.  Big ones, little ones, 9/11 Truthers, Moon landings, ect., but FE conspiracy is a new one to me.  Bear in mind, though, that just because I like them doesn't mean I subscribe to them, it's just a preface for one of the questions.

Question #1:  If FE is more accepted as fact among some people, and been around for obviously millenia, why would NASA and other governments need to create a whole sphere of conspiracy around it?  What possible purpose could there be in creating such a conspiracy?  I can understand for power, money, military secrets, ect... but I can see no rational (or half-rational) reason for needing to spend the money to hush it up.  Protection, maybe?  That still doesn't add up, because they let people have guns, amiright!

Question #2:  I haven't really figured out how to word this without sounding like a douche, so here goes:  If, according to FE theory, the earth is a semi-rounded disc, flying around to maintain gravity, with the sun as a "spotlight" and the moon being an organism that is somehow bio-luminescent, the stars rotating around on what I can only imagine as a "dome" above the Earth, what makes them move?  Are they on a fixed plane, or more like us being in a snow globe?  I guess what I mean to say, is that with a half-way decent telescope, we can see the movement of stars, planets, even galaxies going well outside our field of view.  What would be the purpose of suspending physics just to make it look like we live in on a round word when we really live on a flat one? 

Question #3:  I know satellites and space travel is verboten under FE theory, however there is still space junk and man-made objects falling from the sky. How is this explained?  Also, video/pictures taken from high-altitude weather balloons and amateur rocketry fit the mathematical models used to calculate the radius and circumference of the earth, and they also fit regardless of where they were taken (Australia versus Norway, ect).  And those are experiments anyone with a few hundred (or thousand) dollars can accomplish.  I'm just wondering how this fits in.

Now, don't get me wrong, it may sound like I'm trying to mock, I'm really not.  I just want to know where these all fit in, and I can't find them with just general googling them or lurking.  Thanks!

Duff

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 01:49:49 PM »
Quote
Question #1:  If FE is more accepted as fact among some people, and been around for obviously millenia, why would NASA and other governments need to create a whole sphere of conspiracy around it?  What possible purpose could there be in creating such a conspiracy?  I can understand for power, money, military secrets, ect... but I can see no rational (or half-rational) reason for needing to spend the money to hush it up.  Protection, maybe?  That still doesn't add up, because they let people have guns, amiright!

There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.

There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA from the get-go: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). "Scientific exploration of new frontiers for all mankind" was just a front.

See this quote from president Lyndon Johnson:

    "Control of space means control of the world. From space, the masters of infinity would have the power to control the earth's weather, to cause drought and flood, to change the tides and raise the levels of the sea, to divert the gulf stream and change temperate climates to frigid. There is something more important than the ultimate weapon. And that's the ultimate position. The position of total control over the Earth that lies somewhere in outer space." -President Lyndon Johnson, Statement on Status of Nation's Defense and Race for Space, January 7, 1958

One month later, Lyndon Johnson and the Senate Special Committee on Space and Astronautics drafted a resolution to change the name of the US Army's Ballistic Missile Arsenal to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

NASA's early rocket research was a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point they decided to fake the space program outright.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They're not running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes. At the time of NASA's creation everyone had believed that the earth was round, so that's how they displayed it. Like everyone else, the people at NASA themselves were brainwashed with the fiction of a globe earth from the cradle, so there was no doubt in their mind as how to display it.

NASA takes high altitude imagery from the edge of the atmosphere and adds curvature to the scene make it seem like the craft is higher than it is.

Apollo was completely fabricated. A globe earth was used in scenes because that's what everyone expected to see.

NASA used a globe to represent the earth because that's what everyone of the 50's and 60's expected to see, and what they themselves would expect to see, growing up under the illusions of a Round Earth.

Quote
Question #2:  I haven't really figured out how to word this without sounding like a douche, so here goes:  If, according to FE theory, the earth is a semi-rounded disc, flying around to maintain gravity, with the sun as a "spotlight" and the moon being an organism that is somehow bio-luminescent, the stars rotating around on what I can only imagine as a "dome" above the Earth, what makes them move?  Are they on a fixed plane, or more like us being in a snow globe?  I guess what I mean to say, is that with a half-way decent telescope, we can see the movement of stars, planets, even galaxies going well outside our field of view.  What would be the purpose of suspending physics just to make it look like we live in on a round word when we really live on a flat one? 

The moon is not an organism, and there is not a dome of stars over the earth -- a 'dome' is simulated by perspective. All receding overhead bodies will naturally recede into a point into the eye level horizon.

You see the movement of celestial bodies through a telescope because they are moving. RE'ers would have us believe that when we watch something move our first assumption should be that the earth is moving!

Quote
Question #3:  I know satellites and space travel is verboten under FE theory, however there is still space junk and man-made objects falling from the sky. How is this explained?

Unsubstantiated.

Quote
Also, video/pictures taken from high-altitude weather balloons and amateur rocketry fit the mathematical models used to calculate the radius and circumference of the earth, and they also fit regardless of where they were taken (Australia versus Norway, ect).  And those are experiments anyone with a few hundred (or thousand) dollars can accomplish.  I'm just wondering how this fits in.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-150-space-camera-mit-students-beat-nasa-on-beer-money-budget/

I just see a slight elliptical curve from high altitude balloons at the edge of the atmosphere. It seems as if we are looking down at a circle.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 02:01:35 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 01:51:52 PM »
Moved to Q&A.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Graff

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 02:06:54 PM »
Quote
One month later, Lyndon Johnson and the Senate Special Committee on Space and Astronautics drafted a resolution to change the name of the US Army's Ballistic Missile Arsenal to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
This right here ought to tell you why;
Quote
NASA's early rocket research was a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point they decided to fake the space program outright.
Is wrong.
Give it a little thought.
Do we not have ICBMs?
God bless the Enclave.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 02:08:41 PM »
Do we not have ICBMs?

No, we don't. Achieving earth orbit is not possible.

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Graff

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 02:12:14 PM »
Do we not have ICBMs?

No, we don't. Achieving earth orbit is not possible.
I really wish you would pay attention to history.
Why is it mankind, in this day and age, refuses to look back?
Repeatedly, we make the same mistake of our predecessors...
God bless the Enclave.

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Tausami

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 02:15:28 PM »
Graff, I notice you refuse to go into specifics? Why?

Also, your personal text is so cliched here it's literally a joke.

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Graff

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 02:22:02 PM »
Graff, I notice you refuse to go into specifics? Why?

Also, your personal text is so cliched here it's literally a joke.
That's... Kind of the idea.

Anywho; I could go into specifics if you like. Though, it is a rather large field.
Where would you like me to start?
The beginning? German V2 rockets. The very first ICBM. Granted, it really wasn't that effective. The warhead was too small at the time.

Oh, and here's the funny thing; they were actually used. So, you know.
God bless the Enclave.

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Pongo

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 03:23:29 PM »
Do we not have ICBMs?

No, we don't. Achieving earth orbit is not possible.
I really wish you would pay attention to history.
Why is it mankind, in this day and age, refuses to look back?
Repeatedly, we make the same mistake of our predecessors...

What mistakes are we repeating?  If anything, the RE myth is the mistake "we" repeat everyday.

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Graff

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 03:27:06 PM »
What mistakes are we repeating?  If anything, the RE myth is the mistake "we" repeat everyday.
I'm sure we are all repeating some.
Anyway, I was really making more of a personal observation.
I see folk about making the same mistakes all the time. It is rather disheartening.

God bless the Enclave.

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areyouguysserious

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 04:21:44 PM »
Quote
The moon is not an organism, and there is not a dome of stars over the earth -- a 'dome' is simulated by perspective. All receding overhead bodies will naturally recede into a point into the eye level horizon.

You see the movement of celestial bodies through a telescope because they are moving. RE'ers would have us believe that when we watch something move our first assumption should be that the earth is moving!

You never explained to the OP how or why they are moving.

Quote
Quote
Question #3:  I know satellites and space travel is verboten under FE theory, however there is still space junk and man-made objects falling from the sky. How is this explained?

Unsubstantiated.


This actually is substantiated. Just in the past several months a couple of space stations and satellites were being tracked as they were leaving the orbit to fall back to earth, their trajectories were being tracked so there coudl be assurances that they wouldn't fall into populated areas. Also I saw a news story recently about an unknown piece of metal that was found in I believe it was Africa...there was much confusion about it and where it came from, but it was eventually classified as a piece of space debris.
You have the right to believe in whatever you want. I also have the right to believe that you're a (Bleep)ing idiot!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 04:32:01 PM »
You never explained to the OP how or why they are moving.

How the stars move: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Stars

How the planets move: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Planets

The above articles describe how the stars move around the Northern Hub and how the planets move around the Sun.

Why they are moving is another question altogether and is unknowable. Empirically we can see that they move in the ways that they do. An imaginative scientician might suggest that a Big Bang or a Big Splash of some sort put things into motion.

Quote
This actually is substantiated. Just in the past several months a couple of space stations and satellites were being tracked as they were leaving the orbit to fall back to earth, their trajectories were being tracked so there coudl be assurances that they wouldn't fall into populated areas.

Who tracked it, NASA?

Quote
Also I saw a news story recently about an unknown piece of metal that was found in I believe it was Africa...there was much confusion about it and where it came from, but it was eventually classified as a piece of space debris.

Who classified it, NASA?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 12:39:25 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 04:44:02 PM »
why is space travel impossible?
the sun, stars and moon do it with ease,
even the faqqers will tell you it is possible.
why this such anti-Zetetic position?

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areyouguysserious

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2012, 04:58:54 PM »
You never explained to the OP how or why they are moving.

How the stars move: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Stars

How the planets move: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Planets

The above articles describe how the stars move around the Northern Hub and how the planets move around the Sun.

Why they are moving is another question altogether and is unknowable. Empirically we can see that they move in the ways that they do. A scientician might suggest that a Big Bang of some sort put things into motion.

Quote
This actually is substantiated. Just in the past several months a couple of space stations and satellites were being tracked as they were leaving the orbit to fall back to earth, their trajectories were being tracked so there coudl be assurances that they wouldn't fall into populated areas.

Who tracked it, NASA?

Quote
Also I saw a news story recently about an unknown piece of metal that was found in I believe it was Africa...there was much confusion about it and where it came from, but it was eventually classified as a piece of space debris.

Who classified it, NASA?

NASA is one agency, it's true, but lets talk about all the other entities who can and do track space debris, such as the military, air force especially, governments other than our owns, independent news agencies....
http://articles.cnn.com/keyword/space-debris

Also, why is there so much concern about space debris causing damage to the earth if it doesn't exist? And why are there so many pictures of space debris if it doesn't exist? Read this article for some good examples http://www.scienceclarified.com/dispute/Vol-1/Does-the-accumulation-of-space-debris-in-Earth-s-orbit-pose-a-significant-threat-to-humans-in-space-and-on-the-ground.html

When Skylab fell in the 70s there was a national uproar over where it would land. It landed over the Indian Ocean and Australia, where it killed a cow. This is documented. Nasa had to pay for the cow.

You have the right to believe in whatever you want. I also have the right to believe that you're a (Bleep)ing idiot!

Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2012, 05:23:53 PM »
Quote
Question #1:  If FE is more accepted as fact among some people, and been around for obviously millenia, why would NASA and other governments need to create a whole sphere of conspiracy around it?  What possible purpose could there be in creating such a conspiracy?  I can understand for power, money, military secrets, ect... but I can see no rational (or half-rational) reason for needing to spend the money to hush it up.  Protection, maybe?  That still doesn't add up, because they let people have guns, amiright!

There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.

There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA from the get-go: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). "Scientific exploration of new frontiers for all mankind" was just a front.

See this quote from president Lyndon Johnson:

    "Control of space means control of the world. From space, the masters of infinity would have the power to control the earth's weather, to cause drought and flood, to change the tides and raise the levels of the sea, to divert the gulf stream and change temperate climates to frigid. There is something more important than the ultimate weapon. And that's the ultimate position. The position of total control over the Earth that lies somewhere in outer space." -President Lyndon Johnson, Statement on Status of Nation's Defense and Race for Space, January 7, 1958

One month later, Lyndon Johnson and the Senate Special Committee on Space and Astronautics drafted a resolution to change the name of the US Army's Ballistic Missile Arsenal to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

NASA's early rocket research was a complete failure, plagued by one disaster after another. At some point they decided to fake the space program outright.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They're not running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes. At the time of NASA's creation everyone had believed that the earth was round, so that's how they displayed it. Like everyone else, the people at NASA themselves were brainwashed with the fiction of a globe earth from the cradle, so there was no doubt in their mind as how to display it.

NASA takes high altitude imagery from the edge of the atmosphere and adds curvature to the scene make it seem like the craft is higher than it is.

Apollo was completely fabricated. A globe earth was used in scenes because that's what everyone expected to see.

NASA used a globe to represent the earth because that's what everyone of the 50's and 60's expected to see, and what they themselves would expect to see, growing up under the illusions of a Round Earth.

Quote
Question #2:  I haven't really figured out how to word this without sounding like a douche, so here goes:  If, according to FE theory, the earth is a semi-rounded disc, flying around to maintain gravity, with the sun as a "spotlight" and the moon being an organism that is somehow bio-luminescent, the stars rotating around on what I can only imagine as a "dome" above the Earth, what makes them move?  Are they on a fixed plane, or more like us being in a snow globe?  I guess what I mean to say, is that with a half-way decent telescope, we can see the movement of stars, planets, even galaxies going well outside our field of view.  What would be the purpose of suspending physics just to make it look like we live in on a round word when we really live on a flat one? 

The moon is not an organism, and there is not a dome of stars over the earth -- a 'dome' is simulated by perspective. All receding overhead bodies will naturally recede into a point into the eye level horizon.

You see the movement of celestial bodies through a telescope because they are moving. RE'ers would have us believe that when we watch something move our first assumption should be that the earth is moving!

Quote
Question #3:  I know satellites and space travel is verboten under FE theory, however there is still space junk and man-made objects falling from the sky. How is this explained?

Unsubstantiated.

Quote
Also, video/pictures taken from high-altitude weather balloons and amateur rocketry fit the mathematical models used to calculate the radius and circumference of the earth, and they also fit regardless of where they were taken (Australia versus Norway, ect).  And those are experiments anyone with a few hundred (or thousand) dollars can accomplish.  I'm just wondering how this fits in.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/the-150-space-camera-mit-students-beat-nasa-on-beer-money-budget/

I just see a slight elliptical curve from high altitude balloons at the edge of the atmosphere. It seems as if we are looking down at a circle.

Alright, I'm not very good with the "quotes" thingie, so I will just take it all in one shot... I still have questions, and you didn't really answer them at all.  This is one of the things I really hate about conspiracy and counter-mainstream ideas, is that not many people can answer questions directly.  It's like talking to politicians.
As far as FE conspiracy, from reading the FAQ's it's clear that the FES endorses the idea of governmental conspiracy.  The notion that this apparent "fact" (I used quotes only to differentiate between FE and RE ideas) is something that needs to be covered up by governments and private companies is ludicrous.  I like a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but for it to be believable, there needs to be a clear and concise threat from exposure, I.E. 9/11, Aliens, ect... With FE exposure, I guess the threat from exposure would be on the nightly news, and a whole lot of stumbling on astronomer's parts.  What I'm saying is there is no gain from keeping FE hushed up by the government, or private individuals who happen to possess such knowledge.
Your answer to space junk falling from the sky as "unsubstantiated" is just dodging the question, because you can't answer without poking huge holes in your theory about planetary orbit.  Case in point:  July 17th, 1979, Skylab rained down on an Australian town while the townspeople looked on.  It's kinda hard to fake hundreds of very bright falling pieces and sonic booms from the station falling, and then fake the pieces of debris that survived reentry.  I'm not saying this disproves FE, but it certainly puts a dominant part of it in a very undesirable place.  There is dozens of other reports, pictures and all, of junk coming down from low orbit and surviving.

As far as your answer to low-budget high-altitude photography, you really discredited your own theory by accident.  While I will assume that you did so unintentionally, I will not ignore it.  There is a very easy way to prove the rough spherical shape of the planet with cheap equipment.  If someone in Australia does the balloon experiment, and the curve looks the same as a balloon launched in Toronto (or in this case, Massachusetts), and another balloon in South Africa, and one launched in Berlin, and they all look roughly the same, it would generally disprove a flat earth model.  I'm sure that for a couple hundred bucks a pop, we can find teams to do just that.  I found an article from Wired that showed a team in Spain did the same thing, and had very very similar photos.  I doubt teenagers would set out to disprove your theories, given that the vast majority of the world doesn't believe them, anyhow.  Just sayin.

Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2012, 05:28:46 PM »
You never explained to the OP how or why they are moving.

How the stars move: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Stars

How the planets move: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Planets

The above articles describe how the stars move around the Northern Hub and how the planets move around the Sun.

Why they are moving is another question altogether and is unknowable. Empirically we can see that they move in the ways that they do. A scientician might suggest that a Big Bang of some sort put things into motion.

Quote
This actually is substantiated. Just in the past several months a couple of space stations and satellites were being tracked as they were leaving the orbit to fall back to earth, their trajectories were being tracked so there coudl be assurances that they wouldn't fall into populated areas.

Who tracked it, NASA?

Quote
Also I saw a news story recently about an unknown piece of metal that was found in I believe it was Africa...there was much confusion about it and where it came from, but it was eventually classified as a piece of space debris.

Who classified it, NASA?

NASA is one agency, it's true, but lets talk about all the other entities who can and do track space debris, such as the military, air force especially, governments other than our owns, independent news agencies....
http://articles.cnn.com/keyword/space-debris

Also, why is there so much concern about space debris causing damage to the earth if it doesn't exist? And why are there so many pictures of space debris if it doesn't exist? Read this article for some good examples http://www.scienceclarified.com/dispute/Vol-1/Does-the-accumulation-of-space-debris-in-Earth-s-orbit-pose-a-significant-threat-to-humans-in-space-and-on-the-ground.html

When Skylab fell in the 70s there was a national uproar over where it would land. It landed over the Indian Ocean and Australia, where it killed a cow. This is documented. Nasa had to pay for the cow.
Actually, it fell on the Australian town of Esperance.  Lots of people saw it, none of them were paid to hush up anything.

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markjo

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2012, 06:32:11 PM »
Do we not have ICBMs?

No, we don't. Achieving earth orbit is not possible.

Earth orbit is not necessary for ICBMs to work, especially if the earth is flat.  All one needs is a booster with sufficient energy to launch a warhead in a parabolic trajectory.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Graff

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 06:49:38 PM »
Do we not have ICBMs?

No, we don't. Achieving earth orbit is not possible.

Earth orbit is not necessary for ICBMs to work, especially if the earth is flat.  All one needs is a booster with sufficient energy to launch a warhead in a parabolic trajectory.
Actually, they do enter a sub-orbital state. But yes; generally they don't have to go into a full orbit.
Though; the Soviets did plan on such. FOBS, it was called. The idea was that it had no range limit, and could, supposedly, avoid all of the NORAD early warning systems.
Sadly, this was never done as the Outer Space Treaty banned nuclear weapons in Earth orbit.

God bless the Enclave.

Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 08:12:46 PM »
What I'm saying is there is no gain from keeping FE hushed up by the government, or private individuals who happen to possess such knowledge.

They say that the reason for the FE conspiracy is financial.  But what financial gain could anybody possibly have by tricking everyone into thinking the world is round?  I guess for the people who knew the truth it would be funny, and they probably go on outrageous power trips, real proud that they're fooling everybody.  But other than that what would the gain be?  How would any government, individual, corporation, or any other entity make money from such a conspiracy? 

Why would they even need to do such a thing to make money anyway?  The people who run the world already print unlimited amounts of fiat money in a debt based fractional reserve banking system that has taken over the planet.  To make a long story short, this basically means that the people who run the world (bankers) "legally" counterfeit money.  So why go through all this trouble when they already have an unlimited amount of money to control the world?  Somebody please answer this question. 

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 08:46:52 PM »
What I'm saying is there is no gain from keeping FE hushed up by the government, or private individuals who happen to possess such knowledge.

They say that the reason for the FE conspiracy is financial.  But what financial gain could anybody possibly have by tricking everyone into thinking the world is round?  I guess for the people who knew the truth it would be funny, and they probably go on outrageous power trips, real proud that they're fooling everybody.  But other than that what would the gain be?  How would any government, individual, corporation, or any other entity make money from such a conspiracy? 

The general view is that NASA makes money by faking a space program (other world space agencies follow suit).  They are basically scamming the government.  Of course this is all in the FAQ.

Quote
Why would they even need to do such a thing to make money anyway?  The people who run the world already print unlimited amounts of fiat money in a debt based fractional reserve banking system that has taken over the planet.  To make a long story short, this basically means that the people who run the world (bankers) "legally" counterfeit money.  So why go through all this trouble when they already have an unlimited amount of money to control the world?  Somebody please answer this question.

The people in charge of printing money are not part of the Conspiracy.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Graff

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 08:50:18 PM »
What I'm saying is there is no gain from keeping FE hushed up by the government, or private individuals who happen to possess such knowledge.

They say that the reason for the FE conspiracy is financial.  But what financial gain could anybody possibly have by tricking everyone into thinking the world is round?  I guess for the people who knew the truth it would be funny, and they probably go on outrageous power trips, real proud that they're fooling everybody.  But other than that what would the gain be?  How would any government, individual, corporation, or any other entity make money from such a conspiracy? 

The general view is that NASA makes money by faking a space program (other world space agencies follow suit).  They are basically scamming the government.  Of course this is all in the FAQ.


The theory that NASA's after money has always been rather silly to me.
Maybe now it is possible, but back during the Cold War, there were reasons reasons it was funded.
ICBM research and development; and of course beating the Ruskies.

Oh, and do keep in mind that Russia went to space first.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 09:03:35 PM by Graff »
God bless the Enclave.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2012, 12:51:34 AM »
NASA is one agency, it's true, but lets talk about all the other entities who can and do track space debris, such as the military, air force especially, governments other than our owns, independent news agencies....
http://articles.cnn.com/keyword/space-debris

I see lots of references to NASA on that page.

Quote from: areyouguysserious
Also, why is there so much concern about space debris causing damage to the earth if it doesn't exist? And why are there so many pictures of space debris if it doesn't exist? Read this article for some good examples http://www.scienceclarified.com/dispute/Vol-1/Does-the-accumulation-of-space-debris-in-Earth-s-orbit-pose-a-significant-threat-to-humans-in-space-and-on-the-ground.html

How do we know that the debris was in space?

Quote from: areyouguysserious
When Skylab fell in the 70s there was a national uproar over where it would land. It landed over the Indian Ocean and Australia, where it killed a cow. This is documented. Nasa had to pay for the cow.

How do we know that whatever hit the cow was in space and in orbit around the earth?

Quote from: Duffman
As far as FE conspiracy, from reading the FAQ's it's clear that the FES endorses the idea of governmental conspiracy.  The notion that this apparent "fact" (I used quotes only to differentiate between FE and RE ideas) is something that needs to be covered up by governments and private companies is ludicrous.

Did you not read anything I posted in this thread? The government isn't covering up FET.

Quote from: Duffman
Your answer to space junk falling from the sky as "unsubstantiated" is just dodging the question, because you can't answer without poking huge holes in your theory about planetary orbit.  Case in point:  July 17th, 1979, Skylab rained down on an Australian town while the townspeople looked on.  It's kinda hard to fake hundreds of very bright falling pieces and sonic booms from the station falling, and then fake the pieces of debris that survived reentry.  I'm not saying this disproves FE, but it certainly puts a dominant part of it in a very undesirable place.  There is dozens of other reports, pictures and all, of junk coming down from low orbit and surviving.

How do we know it was a space station in orbit around the earth which fell?

I doubt any Australian town had any way of knowing that it was in space, in orbit around the earth, or even was a man-made object.

Quote from: Duffman
As far as your answer to low-budget high-altitude photography, you really discredited your own theory by accident.  While I will assume that you did so unintentionally, I will not ignore it.  There is a very easy way to prove the rough spherical shape of the planet with cheap equipment.  If someone in Australia does the balloon experiment, and the curve looks the same as a balloon launched in Toronto (or in this case, Massachusetts), and another balloon in South Africa, and one launched in Berlin, and they all look roughly the same, it would generally disprove a flat earth model.  I'm sure that for a couple hundred bucks a pop, we can find teams to do just that.  I found an article from Wired that showed a team in Spain did the same thing, and had very very similar photos.  I doubt teenagers would set out to disprove your theories, given that the vast majority of the world doesn't believe them, anyhow.  Just sayin.

Please feel free to perform this experiment and document your results if it's "so easy". There are hundreds of high altitude balloon experiments, and the curvature is different in each and every picture because of the difference between camera lenses and the varying altitude of the balloon.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 10:32:14 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2012, 12:54:34 AM »
Do we not have ICBMs?

No, we don't. Achieving earth orbit is not possible.

Earth orbit is not necessary for ICBMs to work, especially if the earth is flat.  All one needs is a booster with sufficient energy to launch a warhead in a parabolic trajectory.

A booster with sufficient energy to fly for 10,000 miles? Yeah right. The biggest rocket, the Saturn V, could barely fly 100 miles straight up into the air before it ran out of fuel and the tanks dropped off. At that point it allegedly went into orbit.

ICBM's are only possible if earth orbit is possible. Without earth orbit, there cannot be ICBM's.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the idea that a ballistic missile can fly for 10,000+ miles without needing earth orbit, but you are  wrong. Rockets are not planes. They don't coast on the atmosphere. They expand a tremendous amount of energy keeping themselves in the air, use up their fuel extremely fast, and can only travel a relatively short distance.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 01:16:08 AM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2012, 04:44:20 AM »
Do we not have ICBMs?

No, we don't. Achieving earth orbit is not possible.

Earth orbit is not necessary for ICBMs to work, especially if the earth is flat.  All one needs is a booster with sufficient energy to launch a warhead in a parabolic trajectory.

A booster with sufficient energy to fly for 10,000 miles? Yeah right. The biggest rocket, the Saturn V, could barely fly 100 miles straight up into the air before it ran out of fuel and the tanks dropped off. At that point it allegedly went into orbit.

Tom, your willful ignorance is showing again.  Rockets do not go into orbit by flying straight up.  If you have ever seen a launch, then you would know that they begin arcing over to gain horizontal speed almost immediately after lift off.  Also, multiple stage rockets are much more efficient than single stage rockets for lifting large payloads.

Quote
ICBM's are only possible if earth orbit is possible. Without earth orbit, there cannot be ICBM's.

Why not?  I still can't see why a rocket can't launch a payload several thousand miles in a parabolic trajectory on a flat earth.

Quote
I don't know why you keep bringing up the idea that a ballistic missile can fly for 10,000+ miles without needing earth orbit, but you are  wrong.

ICBM range is 3500+ miles, not 10,000+ miles.

Quote
Rockets are not planes. They don't coast on the atmosphere.

That's right, they coast in outer space.  Significantly less drag in a near perfect vacuum.

Quote
They expand a tremendous amount of energy keeping themselves in the air, use up their fuel extremely fast, and can only travel a relatively short distance.

Yes, they use that energy to gain both vertical and horizontal speed.  This energy is not lost the second that the fuel tanks are exhausted.  If you want to debunk ICBMs, then you should at least get a clue as to how they work.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2012, 06:07:41 AM »
Why would they even need to do such a thing to make money anyway?  The people who run the world already print unlimited amounts of fiat money in a debt based fractional reserve banking system that has taken over the planet.  To make a long story short, this basically means that the people who run the world (bankers) "legally" counterfeit money.  So why go through all this trouble when they already have an unlimited amount of money to control the world?  Somebody please answer this question.

The people in charge of printing money are not part of the Conspiracy.

This is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard in my life.  This statement is even more outrageous than saying the earth is flat.  Money is like the blood of society.  Every single thing requires money and NOTHING can function without it, at least not under the current system that is in place.  Of course the people who create money out of thin air are part of the conspiracy.

This whole website serves more as a diversion than anything else.  You guys get all caught up in fanciful conspiracies while ignoring the real conspiracies that the human race faces.  Conspiracies such as fractional reserve banking.  Why is it that no matter what the officials do we just can't seem to get out of debt?  Because it is mathemetically impossible to get out of debt.  And its not by accident, it's by design.  7 billion people are slaves to a debt based system.  The bankers are going to rape, loot and pillage humanity for everything it's worth.  And if you are laughing right now and don't believe me, just watch and see what happens in the next few years.  But let's not care about that, we should only care about fanciful theories about the earth being flat. 

« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 06:11:00 AM by EarthShape? »

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2012, 06:54:49 AM »
Why would they even need to do such a thing to make money anyway?  The people who run the world already print unlimited amounts of fiat money in a debt based fractional reserve banking system that has taken over the planet.  To make a long story short, this basically means that the people who run the world (bankers) "legally" counterfeit money.  So why go through all this trouble when they already have an unlimited amount of money to control the world?  Somebody please answer this question.

The people in charge of printing money are not part of the Conspiracy.

This is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard in my life.  This statement is even more outrageous than saying the earth is flat.  Money is like the blood of society.  Every single thing requires money and NOTHING can function without it, at least not under the current system that is in place.  Of course the people who create money out of thin air are part of the conspiracy.

This whole website serves more as a diversion than anything else.  You guys get all caught up in fanciful conspiracies while ignoring the real conspiracies that the human race faces.  Conspiracies such as fractional reserve banking.  Why is it that no matter what the officials do we just can't seem to get out of debt?  Because it is mathemetically impossible to get out of debt.  And its not by accident, it's by design.  7 billion people are slaves to a debt based system.  The bankers are going to rape, loot and pillage humanity for everything it's worth.  And if you are laughing right now and don't believe me, just watch and see what happens in the next few years.  But let's not care about that, we should only care about fanciful theories about the earth being flat.
Indeed I am and indeed I will.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2012, 07:20:40 AM »
Why would they even need to do such a thing to make money anyway?  The people who run the world already print unlimited amounts of fiat money in a debt based fractional reserve banking system that has taken over the planet.  To make a long story short, this basically means that the people who run the world (bankers) "legally" counterfeit money.  So why go through all this trouble when they already have an unlimited amount of money to control the world?  Somebody please answer this question.

The people in charge of printing money are not part of the Conspiracy.

This is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard in my life.  This statement is even more outrageous than saying the earth is flat.  Money is like the blood of society.  Every single thing requires money and NOTHING can function without it, at least not under the current system that is in place.  Of course the people who create money out of thin air are part of the conspiracy.

This whole website serves more as a diversion than anything else.  You guys get all caught up in fanciful conspiracies while ignoring the real conspiracies that the human race faces.  Conspiracies such as fractional reserve banking.  Why is it that no matter what the officials do we just can't seem to get out of debt?  Because it is mathemetically impossible to get out of debt.  And its not by accident, it's by design.  7 billion people are slaves to a debt based system.  The bankers are going to rape, loot and pillage humanity for everything it's worth.  And if you are laughing right now and don't believe me, just watch and see what happens in the next few years.  But let's not care about that, we should only care about fanciful theories about the earth being flat.

1. Have no idea what "The Conspiracy" is.
2. Make up own definition of "The Conspiracy"
3. ??.??.??
4. Win argument! (Profit!)


Unfortunately that process doesn't actually work.

Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2012, 09:33:08 AM »
Why would they even need to do such a thing to make money anyway?  The people who run the world already print unlimited amounts of fiat money in a debt based fractional reserve banking system that has taken over the planet.  To make a long story short, this basically means that the people who run the world (bankers) "legally" counterfeit money.  So why go through all this trouble when they already have an unlimited amount of money to control the world?  Somebody please answer this question.

The people in charge of printing money are not part of the Conspiracy.

This is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard in my life.  This statement is even more outrageous than saying the earth is flat.  Money is like the blood of society.  Every single thing requires money and NOTHING can function without it, at least not under the current system that is in place.  Of course the people who create money out of thin air are part of the conspiracy.

This whole website serves more as a diversion than anything else.  You guys get all caught up in fanciful conspiracies while ignoring the real conspiracies that the human race faces.  Conspiracies such as fractional reserve banking.  Why is it that no matter what the officials do we just can't seem to get out of debt?  Because it is mathemetically impossible to get out of debt.  And its not by accident, it's by design.  7 billion people are slaves to a debt based system.  The bankers are going to rape, loot and pillage humanity for everything it's worth.  And if you are laughing right now and don't believe me, just watch and see what happens in the next few years.  But let's not care about that, we should only care about fanciful theories about the earth being flat.

1. Have no idea what "The Conspiracy" is.
2. Make up own definition of "The Conspiracy"
3. ??.??.??
4. Win argument! (Profit!)


Unfortunately that process doesn't actually work.

I totally agree.  I'm glad you see the error of your ways.  You guys are ignoring real conspiracies and are basically playing dungeons and dragons instead.  There are plenty of real conspiracies that humanity needs to awaken to, you should put your time and energy into that.  An analogy for what FEers are doing would be like if you are standing on train tracks while the train is heading towards you, but instead of worrying about the train and getting off the tracks you are busy putting on sunscreen because you are worried about getting a sunburn. 

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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17732
Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2012, 09:52:17 AM »
Quote from: markjo
Tom, your willful ignorance is showing again.  Rockets do not go into orbit by flying straight up.  If you have ever seen a launch, then you would know that they begin arcing over to gain horizontal speed almost immediately after lift off.  Also, multiple stage rockets are much more efficient than single stage rockets for lifting large payloads.

The intent of my quote was to signify that the rocket is lifting itself up into the air in an general upwards direction, and not coasted on the atmosphere like a plane. The 33-story tall Saturn V is lifting itself approximately 100 miles. This action depletes over 5,000,000 pounds of fuel.

How you think it is even remotely possible for a rocket to travel intercontinental distances is beyond me.

Quote from: markjo
Why not?  I still can't see why a rocket can't launch a payload several thousand miles in a parabolic trajectory on a flat earth.

Already addressed. Rockets can't fly very far.

Rockets are not planes. Please do not confuse the two and think that because one known craft can travel intercontinental distances, that another one can. It takes orders more energy to move upwards against 'gravity' than it takes to leisurely coast on the atmosphere to a far off destination.

Quote from: markjo
Quote
I don't know why you keep bringing up the idea that a ballistic missile can fly for 10,000+ miles without needing earth orbit, but you are  wrong.

ICBM range is 3500+ miles, not 10,000+ miles.

I did not claim that minimum ICBM rocket range was 10,000+ miles. Please do not put words into my mouth. The US claims to be able to hit targets 10,000+ miles away.

Quote from: markjo
Yes, they use that energy to gain both vertical and horizontal speed.  This energy is not lost the second that the fuel tanks are exhausted.  If you want to debunk ICBMs, then you should at least get a clue as to how they work.

The Saturn V has a range of a little more than 100 miles before it runs out of fuel. Please show how it can be shot off at an angle and hit a target 3500+ miles away via inertia.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 10:28:42 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Graff

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Re: Hi everyone, I have a couple questions (don't we all?)
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2012, 10:07:59 AM »
I did not claim that minimum ICBM rocket range was 10,000+ miles. Please do not put words into my mouth. The US claims to be able to hit targets 10,000+ miles away.
That'd be because they can enter an orbit and fall back in wherever they need to.
God bless the Enclave.