Farming headless chickens

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Farming headless chickens
« on: February 21, 2012, 12:53:47 AM »
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/02/headless-chicken-solution/

The plan is to remove the cerebral cortex but keep the brain stem intact so that the homeostatic functions continue, allowing it to grow.
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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 12:59:53 AM »
Brilliant. I predict that people will be repulsed by the idea, but it's far less repulsive than the current system.

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Pongo

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 01:00:15 AM »
I have no problem with this.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 01:10:40 AM »
Instinctively I'm repelled by this idea and find it morally wrong but I admit that I can't articulate why. I despise the idea of making animals suffer for meat and where possible I avoid meat products in order to even slightly influence supply/demand but if the 'meat' is neither conscious nor sentient then is it wrong to farm it?

I suppose the question is whether the brain is removed after it's sentient (thus making it no different to killing it anyway) or whether it is prevented from developing in the first instance.

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Vindictus

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 02:42:38 AM »
To me, this is more humane than our current system. The only jump left after this is to simply grow the meat without the bird at all.

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Supertails

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 02:53:20 AM »
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/02/headless-chicken-solution/

The plan is to remove the cerebral cortex but keep the brain stem intact so that the homeostatic functions continue, allowing it to grow.
I honestly read this as "homoerotic" the first time and was really, really confused.

But yeah, it seems kind of weird at first but it could be a good idea...hopefully.
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 03:27:10 AM »
To me, this is more humane than our current system. The only jump left after this is to simply grow the meat without the bird at all.

Or realise that you can live without the meat at all.

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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 04:29:47 AM »
To me, this is more humane than our current system. The only jump left after this is to simply grow the meat without the bird at all.

Or realise that you can live without the meat at all.

You'll never take my beef tacos away, you monster.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 05:24:41 AM »
I wouldn't want to. Ideally, I'd like to see society cut down on meat to reduce demand and thus, supply.

We'd get to a state where your beef tacos would be a treat once in a while from small, independant ranches who would treat their cattle humanely. That's the dream, any way.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 05:40:45 AM »
I've heard test tube beef is also in the works.

I think it is all wrong.   Genetically farmed food is not the way to go. 

Pretty soon we will all be eating replicated food and drinking synthohol.   What fun is that?

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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 05:46:28 AM »
And all of our bologna sandwiches will be made from other recycled bologna sandwiches!

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Lorddave

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 08:41:04 AM »
I've heard test tube beef is also in the works.

I think it is all wrong.   Genetically farmed food is not the way to go. 

Pretty soon we will all be eating replicated food and drinking synthohol.   What fun is that?
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Anyway, chickens aren't sentient as we know it so they won't really lose anything beyond their sensory perception.

However, since this requires a huge amount of work per chicken, it's too expensive to attempt.

I'm putting my money on test tube meat.
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 09:04:13 AM »
Quote
Anyway, chickens aren't sentient as we know it so they won't really lose anything beyond their sensory perception.

Erm, citation needed? Chickens have been demonstrated to experience great distress in factory farms, I've never seen anyone claim they're nonsentient before...

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Vongeo

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 09:10:12 AM »
This is obviously how zombies start.
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Lorddave

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 09:13:43 AM »
Quote
Anyway, chickens aren't sentient as we know it so they won't really lose anything beyond their sensory perception.

Erm, citation needed? Chickens have been demonstrated to experience great distress in factory farms, I've never seen anyone claim they're nonsentient before...
Sentience and instinct aren't the same thing.
Sentience being self awareness. Reasoning abilities. The use of abstract ideas like math.

No animal on Earth aside from humans is considered sentient.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 09:17:35 AM »
Quote
Anyway, chickens aren't sentient as we know it so they won't really lose anything beyond their sensory perception.

Erm, citation needed? Chickens have been demonstrated to experience great distress in factory farms, I've never seen anyone claim they're nonsentient before...
Sentience and instinct aren't the same thing.
Sentience being self awareness. Reasoning abilities. The use of abstract ideas like math.

No animal on Earth aside from humans is considered sentient.
How can you associate intelligence/critical thinking as a component of sentience?
And are you saying you don't think other animals are self aware?

I have yet to meet a mammal that didn't act as though it wasn't aware of its own existence. ???
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:25:11 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 09:19:05 AM »
The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.

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Vongeo

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2012, 09:21:02 AM »
Everyone is just muscles and neurons.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 09:22:50 AM »
The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.
Plenty of animals pass this test, but I don't see how failing the test would imply a complete lack of self awareness.
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Sean

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2012, 09:24:55 AM »
The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.

Not aware they're looking at  reflection means they're not aware of their own existence?
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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2012, 09:26:12 AM »
The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.
Plenty of animals pass this test, but I don't see how failing the test would imply a complete lack of self awareness.

Then you need to reconsider your definition of self-awareness. An animal reacting to its environment is not self-awareness.

The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.

Not aware they're looking at  reflection means they're not aware of their own existence?

Correct.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2012, 09:27:57 AM »
The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.
Plenty of animals pass this test, but I don't see how failing the test would imply a complete lack of self awareness.

Then you need to reconsider your definition of self-awareness. An animal reacting to its environment is not self-awareness.
I agree. An animal reacting to itself demonstrates self awareness. (Ex. A cat licking its paw.)
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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2012, 09:29:39 AM »
The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.
Plenty of animals pass this test, but I don't see how failing the test would imply a complete lack of self awareness.

Then you need to reconsider your definition of self-awareness. An animal reacting to its environment is not self-awareness.
I agree. An animal reacting to itself demonstrates self awareness. (Ex. A cat licking its paw.)

The cat reacts to itself only via instinct. We know this because even cats seperated from their mother from birth will lick their paws.

Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2012, 09:31:27 AM »
Cats can feel emotions. I think that shows well enough that the animal is self-aware.

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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2012, 09:33:46 AM »
Cats can feel emotions. I think that shows well enough that the animal is self-aware.

Emotions are an instinctual reaction to one's environment.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2012, 09:35:40 AM »
The simplest test for self-awareness is holding a mirror up to the test subject. All animals will fail this test, as they can't determine that they are looking at themselves. Chickens are not self-aware.
Plenty of animals pass this test, but I don't see how failing the test would imply a complete lack of self awareness.

Then you need to reconsider your definition of self-awareness. An animal reacting to its environment is not self-awareness.
I agree. An animal reacting to itself demonstrates self awareness. (Ex. A cat licking its paw.)

The cat reacts to itself only via instinct. We know this because even cats seperated from their mother from birth will lick their paws.

The instinct action to for a cat to lick a dirty paw, or the instinct of a dog to lick a wound is irrelevant. They know that their paw feels dirty, or they are aware of their wounds on parts of their body. How to deal with them is heavily influenced by instinct, but they have to be aware of themselves in order to deal with it.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:37:20 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2012, 09:39:40 AM »
How to deal with them is heavily influenced by instinct, but they have to be aware of themselves in order to deal with it.

This is incorrect. If you want an example, I suggest (accidentally) placing an elbow on a hot stove. You will have removed your elbow and clasped it far before you're aware of what just occurred (If it was on purpose, you would be aware that it happened in the first place). This reflexive action is what happens in animals, just without the awareness step.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2012, 09:40:54 AM »
How to deal with them is heavily influenced by instinct, but they have to be aware of themselves in order to deal with it.

This is incorrect. If you want an example, I suggest (accidentally) placing an elbow on a hot stove. You will have removed your elbow and clasped it far before you're aware of what just occurred (If it was on purpose, you would be aware that it happened in the first place). This reflexive action is what happens in animals, just without the awareness step.

Are you suggesting a cat grooming itself after it gets dirty is an autonomic reflex?
It sounds like you're suggesting the precise movements of a cat cleaning itself aren't deliberate.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:44:50 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2012, 09:42:38 AM »
Hah. This conversation is bullshit. Are you implying that our 'superior' human brains have passed some magical self-awareness line that every other living organism on Earth are unable to pass? OH lawdi!

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Rushy

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Re: Farming headless chickens
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2012, 09:43:59 AM »
How to deal with them is heavily influenced by instinct, but they have to be aware of themselves in order to deal with it.

This is incorrect. If you want an example, I suggest (accidentally) placing an elbow on a hot stove. You will have removed your elbow and clasped it far before you're aware of what just occurred (If it was on purpose, you would be aware that it happened in the first place). This reflexive action is what happens in animals, just without the awareness step.

Are you suggesting a cat grooming itself after it gets dirty is an autonomic reflex?

Indeed. Have you ever seen a cat get dirty and decide not to groom itself?