Convenient Flat Earth Experiments

Quote from: markjo on February 10, 2012, 05:39:48 AM

Quote from: squevil on February 09, 2012, 09:19:06 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

and a spirit level is going to detect what exactly? that the ground is level? well done. now prove that this shows curviture. it doesnt does it! you know if you want to troll chat to clever bot it loves to troll

Actually, as an RE'er you should know that if the earth is round, then a spirit level is handy for showing that the horizon is not at eye level as it should be on a flat earth.  In fact, the higher in elevation you are, the further below level the horizon should be because of the "drop off" observed when your line of sight is tangent to the surface of a spheroid.

It would be good to know how precise a spirit level is. We have a minuscule 2 meter drop over some 12 kilometers, so the best levels I know are not even helpful to determine this drop. We are talking 2/12000 radians, or roughly 0.01 degrees. The levels I know would have trouble giving a precision better than a tenth of a degree.

From the top of a mountain it should be easier to measure the drop. But we need to be careful not to fall in the same mistakes of FEers who don't design experiments with the possible causes of error in mind.

The best way I know to verify this would be to obtain an uncropped 360^o photo with a clear view of the horizon. Like we showed with the Mount Everest photos, you can with the aid of GIMP show that the horizon drops below eye level.

It would be good to know how precise a spirit level is. We have a minuscule 2 meter drop over some 12 kilometers, so the best levels I know are not even helpful to determine this drop. We are talking 2/12000 radians, or roughly 0.01 degrees. The levels I know would have trouble giving a precision better than a tenth of a degree.

As our (former) resident surveyor would say, you can reduce (if not eliminate) the error by swinging the level 180 degrees and adjusting as needed.

Quote from: trig on February 10, 2012, 10:56:29 AM

It would be good to know how precise a spirit level is. We have a minuscule 2 meter drop over some 12 kilometers, so the best levels I know are not even helpful to determine this drop. We are talking 2/12000 radians, or roughly 0.01 degrees. The levels I know would have trouble giving a precision better than a tenth of a degree.

As our (former) resident surveyor would say, you can reduce (if not eliminate) the error by swinging the level 180 degrees and adjusting as needed.

You can't eliminate the error, as there is wobble that gets multiplied by the device, but it's a good start. Here's a cheap version that I used to survey for a dam and resulting lake: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-BDL300S-BULLSEYE-360-Degree/dp/B0000C6DWP

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on February 09, 2012, 02:30:27 PM

Quote from: Tausami on February 09, 2012, 02:03:40 PM

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on February 09, 2012, 11:19:54 AM

Quote from: iWitness on February 09, 2012, 11:09:12 AM

And I bet if someone were to measure that full 5.5 miles it would be perfectly flat. Regardless, if you would have read the FAQ or Wiki you would know that the human eye has a limited visual distance. If you were to lay on the track with a telescope you would be able to see FLAT all the way to the end.

You do realize that the moon is 3000 miles away by FE standards, yet you can still see it.

Are you saying that perspective doesn't exist?

No I am saying that the human eye can see further than 5.5 miles.

It depends on the size of what you're looking at. The moon kinda big.

I agree.  I was saying that his comment regarding the distance limitation on human eyesight was irrelevant, can you not put two and two together?

Quote from: squevil on February 09, 2012, 09:19:06 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

and a spirit level is going to detect what exactly? that the ground is level? well done. now prove that this shows curviture. it doesnt does it! you know if you want to troll chat to clever bot it loves to troll

It doesn't show curvature, that is the whole point. If the earth was round, everything on it would be curved because there are no two points on a sphere that completely flat. There is no curvature in any of the scenarios I mentioned, therefore the earth is flat.

i wont even bother to entertain you on this. i thought u were ignoring me now anyway?

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 10:52:15 PM

Quote from: squevil on February 09, 2012, 09:19:06 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

and a spirit level is going to detect what exactly? that the ground is level? well done. now prove that this shows curviture. it doesnt does it! you know if you want to troll chat to clever bot it loves to troll

It doesn't show curvature, that is the whole point. If the earth was round, everything on it would be curved because there are no two points on a sphere that completely flat. There is no curvature in any of the scenarios I mentioned, therefore the earth is flat.

i wont even bother to entertain you on this. i thought u were ignoring me now anyway?

Thanks for verifying that you have no counter arguments. I only completely ignore The Knowledge, if you really want to be added to that list then please let me know.

Are you guys still going to be on the forum when everyone finds out the Earth is Flat? Because I sure will miss your circular reasoning or should I say Spherical. LOL

Are you guys still going to be on the forum when everyone finds out the Earth is Flat? Because I sure will miss your circular reasoning or should I say Spherical. LOL

ofcourse we will, everyone will want to join! or maybe we can all go troll the round earth website. ive never searched but i bet there is one

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

How long does this settling process take?  I park in many lots that are just as contoured or sloped as they were for the last 20-30 years.  Also, is it confined to only parking lots?  I'm surrounded by hills, and my 3 acres has some various gradual mounds and such that haven't changed over the last 30 years. 

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

How long does this settling process take?  I park in many lots that are just as contoured or sloped as they were for the last 20-30 years.  Also, is it confined to only parking lots?  I'm surrounded by hills, and my 3 acres has some various gradual mounds and such that haven't changed over the last 30 years.

There is no settling process, because the earth is flat.

Quote from: 29silhouette on February 13, 2012, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

How long does this settling process take?  I park in many lots that are just as contoured or sloped as they were for the last 20-30 years.  Also, is it confined to only parking lots?  I'm surrounded by hills, and my 3 acres has some various gradual mounds and such that haven't changed over the last 30 years.

There is no settling process, because the earth is flat.

Wouldn't UA accomplish the same thing gravity would? 

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 13, 2012, 12:57:33 PM

Quote from: 29silhouette on February 13, 2012, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

How long does this settling process take?  I park in many lots that are just as contoured or sloped as they were for the last 20-30 years.  Also, is it confined to only parking lots?  I'm surrounded by hills, and my 3 acres has some various gradual mounds and such that haven't changed over the last 30 years.

There is no settling process, because the earth is flat.

Wouldn't UA accomplish the same thing gravity would?

No. If the earth was round things would settle at a curve. They don't, they settle flat. Gravity or UA doesn't matter.

Quote from: 29silhouette on February 13, 2012, 01:55:03 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 13, 2012, 12:57:33 PM

Quote from: 29silhouette on February 13, 2012, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

How long does this settling process take?  I park in many lots that are just as contoured or sloped as they were for the last 20-30 years.  Also, is it confined to only parking lots?  I'm surrounded by hills, and my 3 acres has some various gradual mounds and such that haven't changed over the last 30 years.

There is no settling process, because the earth is flat.

Wouldn't UA accomplish the same thing gravity would?

No. If the earth was round things would settle at a curve. They don't, they settle flat. Gravity or UA doesn't matter.

To what degree of accuracy would you have to measure how things settle to know that they don't?

To what degree of accuracy would you have to measure how things settle to know that they don't?

A spirit level. I'm pretty sure we've been through this.

Quote from: ClockTower on February 14, 2012, 01:36:35 PM

To what degree of accuracy would you have to measure how things settle to know that they don't?

A spirit level. I'm pretty sure we've been through this.

That's how you measured, not what degree of accuracy. Please do pay attention.

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 14, 2012, 03:20:39 PM

Quote from: ClockTower on February 14, 2012, 01:36:35 PM

To what degree of accuracy would you have to measure how things settle to know that they don't?

A spirit level. I'm pretty sure we've been through this.

That's how you measured, not what degree of accuracy. Please do pay attention.

Please do figure out how to properly interpret answers.

Quote from: ClockTower on February 14, 2012, 03:21:57 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 14, 2012, 03:20:39 PM

Quote from: ClockTower on February 14, 2012, 01:36:35 PM

To what degree of accuracy would you have to measure how things settle to know that they don't?

A spirit level. I'm pretty sure we've been through this.

That's how you measured, not what degree of accuracy. Please do pay attention.

Please do figure out how to properly interpret answers.

Please do tell me how to get the degree of accuracy regarding your use of a spirit level. Thanks.

Quote from: 29silhouette on February 13, 2012, 01:55:03 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 13, 2012, 12:57:33 PM

Quote from: 29silhouette on February 13, 2012, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on February 09, 2012, 07:27:25 PM

Quote from: Noogah on February 09, 2012, 06:12:49 PM

What more needs to be said?

In any case, don't they flatten the ground so that it is completely level when they are doing construction work?

I already addressed this in the OP, the ground would settle to match the curvature of the earth, but it doesn't, it remains flat because the earth is flat.

How long does this settling process take?  I park in many lots that are just as contoured or sloped as they were for the last 20-30 years.  Also, is it confined to only parking lots?  I'm surrounded by hills, and my 3 acres has some various gradual mounds and such that haven't changed over the last 30 years.

There is no settling process, because the earth is flat.

Wouldn't UA accomplish the same thing gravity would?

No. If the earth was round things would settle at a curve. They don't, they settle flat. Gravity or UA doesn't matter.

Very well, they settle flat.  Again, how long does it take?  Every parking lot I ever see happens to be contoured to facilitate the removal of rain-water.  (or so the conspiracy leads us to believe.)

^ hahaha good point, they arnt even flat. but honestly this post is like saying the earth is round because rainbows are curved

There is a lot of new people on the site. These experiments would be handy for them to do.

Experiment 1 wit the parking lot: PArking lots are made of gravel and are never more than a few hundred meters long in any direction. Also, they aren't made of a perfectly fluid substance. The gravel and tar will not settle to the degree of accuracy necessary to be within experimental error, so the results are moot.

Experiment 2 with te bowling alley: The bowling alley will not only also be within experimental error but will be manufactured to be perfectly flat, rendering the experiment useless. The ball also is imperfect and it would even on a round earth not accelerate fast enough to make it noticeable to even some of the fastest cameras. Again, spoiled by experimental error and small size of testing facilities.

Experiment 3 with the marble. Gravity wil not pull objects in a uniform directoin, or else we would have higher gravity the further north we go, or fall off of the side of the earth in  a RET. It pulls towards the CENTER of the earth. Try the experiment on a piece of the Industrial flat glass form another long ago post. See if the ball rolls or not. And use a perfectly shperical ball. See if you are not stilll within experimental error as you are using an incredibly small fraction of the earth's surface.

That is what RET would want you to think. The experiments I described are the way they are because the Earth is flat.

I am saying they are far too small and insigneificant to be outside of experimental error.

Besides, can you actually give me evidence against any of the points besides "that's cause you think the world is round"

This forum needs less of that crap, espectially from editors with 5000 posts.

I am saying they are far too small and insigneificant to be outside of experimental error.

Besides, can you actually give me evidence against any of the points besides "that's cause you think the world is round"

This forum needs less of that crap, espectially from editors with 5000 posts.

Your misunderstanding and misrepresentation of my experiments does not invalidate them.

Guys I made up some nice experiments too, because what is the point in proving the earth is not spherical if we can't prove it is flat?

1 flatness in the ocean.

2 rocks.

3 Mountains.

1: We have all probably seen those nice pictures of the big and flat ocean posted around here, but, is it really flat? All you will need for this is a ruler and an ocean. Swim into the ocean, grab your ruler and put it against the water. Now, don't trick on this one, a good way to do it would be to put the ruler a few inches over and parallel to the water, now slowly move it down until it touches the ocean. Does it matches?

2: Grab a rock, is it flat? remember the rock was on the earth, if the earth was flat the rock must have at least one flat surface, the rest can be hidden underground. If you liked this experiment you can repeat it with another rock, the more the better.

3: Look at a mountain, for this experiment the mountain must be really far from you. now grab a ruler, the same ruler you took to the ocean will do, if you lost it you can use another ruler, if there are no rulers near you, grab a rock. Stand in some place where you can see the peak of the mountain, now put the ruler or the rock horizontally to the ground, if the earth is flat the mountain should be flat, slowly move the ruler or rock until it matches to the peak of the mountain, if you close one eye this will be easier. Is it flat?

There you go, have fun experimenting!

1. Parking lots. They're everywhere if you are in a large city and still fairly common in many parts of the world. But are they flat? Parking lots always conform to the ground they're placed on, but the ground normally settles afterwards. If the world was round, parking lots would settle into a slightly curved position, because any two points on a ball no matter the size will contain curvature. The experiment is quite simple. Acquire a Spirit level (otherwise known as a "bubble" level) and measure the flatness of the parking lot. Pretty flat isn't it? This is because the earth is flat and the parking lot never settled into a curved position, but remained flat.

A level on a parking lot would not help you determine the shape of the earth. For one, parking lots are not always perfectly level. For two, gravity pulls in toward the center of the mass, so whether or not there is curvature, the level would always say that the lot was level because you are never on a slope from a gravitational reference.

2. Bowling alleys are also a fairly occurrence. This experiment requires a bit more effort. First go to the bowling alley and ask for one of the children's bowling launchers. These look like small hills (usually in various colors/shapes) to help small children get the bowling ball down the alley. You will also need pen and paper.

Use the bowling launcher to launch the ball with about the same amount of force each time, watch the ball as it rolls down the alley. Record "faster" or "slower." Over time when you have about ten frames worth of data (using the child launcher will turn ten frames into about twenty throws) calculate the overall trend. Did the bowling ball speed up each time it was thrown down the alley? It probably didn't. This is because the earth is flat, and by extension the alley as well. If the earth was round the ball would be rolling down hill and speed up towards the pins each time.

How is this going to help you determine the earth's shape? A bowling alley's lane isn't terribly long, they're generally uneven from wear and tear, they're made of wood so they flex (however slightly), and gravity pulls towards the center of mass, so even if there was curvature and the alley was "perfect," the ball would never be on a slope from a gravitational reference and therefore would not speed up/slow down.

3. This experiment is the absolute easiest. All you will need is a single marble. Find a smooth, flat surface. (even the parking lot). Place the marble on the ground. If it rolls, watch it until it stops. Didn't roll very far, did it? If the earth was round, the marble would roll downhill. Forever. Luckily, the earth is flat and things don't roll down slopes forever.

... I'm not repeating myself for the third time.

It is quite simple.

1. Everything on a round Earth would be round. Everything. No exceptions.
2. Everything is not round.
3. The Earth is not round.

It is quite simple.

1. Everything on a round Earth would be round. Everything. No exceptions.
2. Everything is not round.
3. The Earth is not round.

It is quite simple.
1. When rush trolls (which he does more often than not), he makes statements in response to someone that only vaguely refer to what they said.
2. The statements he makes have very little, if not nothing at all, to back them.
3. The statements have little relevant information supplied.

It is quite simple.

1. Everything on a round Earth would be round. Everything. No exceptions.
2. Everything is not round.
3. The Earth is not round.

This may be the stupidest thing I hve heard you say in this thread.

Why would everything be round on a round earth? There is absolutely nothing you can say to support that claim. If I go to a round planet and stick a shovel in the ground, what physics is preventing the planet from being less flawlessly round?

Seriously, please do try to explain yourself a little more.

It is quite simple.

1. Everything on a round flat Earth would be round flat. Everything. No exceptions.
2. Everything is not round flat.
3. The Earth is not round flat.

You're right, it is quite simple.