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Keep it simple

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FlatOrange

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Keep it simple
« on: January 25, 2012, 08:05:53 PM »
As I understand it, the basis for FET is that when you're standing on Earth with the sky above you and the land beneath you, it looks like Earth is flat, so it's simple to believe that it is indeed flat.

FET is born out of a belief that simple is truth.  I'm begging you to examine your beliefs.  Realize that the FETers that came before you believed FET because simply the earth looks flat.

Which is simpler today? FET or RET?

A round earth with gravity and such adds too much complication.  For a long time FET was simpler.  I do not want to bring any of your theories into this because I've tried that before and experts on FET told me they don't subscribe to the theories I was arguing against.  But I ask that you examine your theories and tell me if they are indeed simple.

Where does RET win in being simple?  In making a model of the solar system.  In replicating the path of the planets in a model to match the path you can see them make in the sky.  In making predictions of where planets are going to be.

Please, please, please look at this video.

Model of solar system " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">


And if you have an ipad or iphone download the app.  It's so simple a model of the world we live on and our neighbor planets.

If you're still reading/interested.  Here's another video that's of a cool app.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">



So, I know why FET theory began but I urge you to examine what you really find easier to believe.  I wanted to show you these apps because it's the best way for someone to see a fool-proof working model of our solar system.  You can change the date on these apps to see where the planets/sun/moon will be or where they have been.  You can cross-check the apps.  You can cross check them with history.  You can cross check them with your own telescope.

This is RET made simple.

Simple is truth.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 08:11:38 PM by FlatOrange »
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Rushy

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 08:17:16 PM »
The position of planets in RET is correct. The means in which they came to those positions is not.
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FlatOrange

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 08:30:51 PM »
You mentioned the planets but left out the sun and moon.  Please, I want to keep any discussion in this thread very simple and without assuming any theories.  I have provided images of models.  Please provide an image of the model you are describing.
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Rushy

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 08:49:08 PM »


You're looking more or less a top-down image. The larger red circle represents earth (made bright red to be easily seen) the small white circle is the sun. Planets are rotating on heliocentric gears as the sun rotates on an abstract gear that is centered over an extension of the earth's north axial pole.

The white orbital stripe is Mercury, the tan stripe is Venus, and the rest are the rest of the planets. With the dwarf planet Pluto being a spec in the background along with other meteors/asteroids etc. I made this working simulation using Universe Sandbox. Naturally, earth's gravity is set to zero.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 08:53:22 PM by Irushwithscvs »
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FlatOrange

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 09:03:40 PM »
In that model how would the retrograde motion of planets work?  Retrograde is when the path of a planet across the night sky changes direction.  If Earth was stable and the other planets went around it like a big hoola hoop you'd never see them change direction.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 09:09:23 PM by FlatOrange »
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Rushy

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 09:07:43 PM »
The phenomenon is known as Celestial Gear Wobbling and can be likened to something like this (Exaggerated to better show the phenomenon).

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FlatOrange

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 09:13:26 PM »
Okay, thank you for showing me these pictures and for not accusing me of not lurking enough.  Celestial Gear Wobbling is quite complex, is it not?

Do you believe the universe we live in is more complex than RETers suggest?  Or do you think RET is complex and it only seems simple because the masses believe it and that's what we were taught growing up?
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Rushy

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 09:17:32 PM »
Quote from: FlatOrange on January 25, 2012, 09:13:26 PM
Okay, thank you for showing me these pictures and for not accusing me of not lurking enough.  Celestial Gear Wobbling is quite complex, is it not?

Do you believe the universe we live in is more complex than RETers suggest?  Or do you think RET is complex and it only seems simple because the masses believe it and that's what we were taught growing up?

RET is quite complex in the grand scheme of the theory. However, on a strict pile-up of RET vs. FET mechanisms, both tend to encompass nearly the same level of complexity.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2012, 09:30:34 PM »
What's the simplest explanation; that my experience of existing upon a plane wherever I go and whatever I do is a massive illusion, that my eyes are constantly deceiving me and that I am actually looking at the enormous sphere of the earth spinning through space at tens of thousands of miles an hour, whirling in perpetual epicycles around the universe; or is the simplest explanation that my eyes are not playing tricks on me and that the earth is exactly as it appears?

What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter straight up at 7 miles per second, and that NASA can do the impossible on a daily basis, explore the cosmos, and constantly wow the nation by landing a man on the moon and sending robots to mars; or is the simplest explanation that they really can't do all of that stuff?

When I walk off the edge of a chair and go into free fall while observing the surface of the earth carefully the earth appears to accelerate up towards me. What's the simplest explanation; that there exists hypothetical undiscovered Graviton particles emanating from the earth which accelerate my body towards the surface through unexplained quantum effects; or is the simplest explanation that this mysterious highly theoretical mechanism does not exist and the earth has just accelerated upwards towards me exactly as I've observed?

What's the simplest explanation; that when I look up and see the sun slowly move across the sky over the course of the day, that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration, or is the simplest explanation that the sun itself is just moving across the sky exactly as I have observed?

What's the simplest explanation; that the sun, moon, and stars are enormous bodies of unimaginable mass, size, and distances which represent frontiers to a vast and infinite unknowable universe teeming with alien worlds, galactic civilizations, black holes, novas and nebulae, and phenomena only conceivable in science fiction; or is the simplest explanation that the universe isn't so large or unknown and when we look up at the stars we are just looking at small points of light in the sky exactly they appear to be?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 09:39:28 PM by Tom Bishop »
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zarg

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2012, 09:46:35 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 25, 2012, 09:30:34 PM
that my eyes are constantly deceiving me

How does the sun change size again?


Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 25, 2012, 09:30:34 PM
spinning through space at tens of thousands of miles an hour

How fast is the UA again?


Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 25, 2012, 09:30:34 PM
that there exists hypothetical undiscovered Graviton particles emanating from the earth which accelerate my body towards the surface through unexplained quantum effects

How does UA work again?


Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 25, 2012, 09:30:34 PM
that the sun, moon, and stars are enormous bodies of unimaginable mass, size

How big is the infinite plane again?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2012, 09:56:04 PM »
All of that is explained in a straightforward, simple manner.

Quote
How does the sun change size again?

Like this

Quote
How fast is the UA again?

Pretty fast.

Quote
How does UA work again?

The earth moves upwards.

Quote
How big is the infinite plane again?

Pretty big.
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zarg

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2012, 10:25:53 PM »
Now let's pretend you asked some corresponding questions about "RET":

Quote
How does the round Earth look flat?

Like this

Quote
How fast is the Earth spinning through space?

Pretty fast.

Quote
How does gravity work?

You move toward Earth.

Quote
How big is the universe?

Pretty big.
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FlatOrange

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 11:51:27 PM »
Well, I suppose I will hold my debating until I can explain gravity.
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markjo

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 10:41:27 AM »
What is the simplest explanation for the setting sun?  Is it simper for the round earth to rotate until the observer can no longer see the (relatively) stationary sun or is it simpler for perspective to cause a 3000 mile high sun to recede (without appearing to get any smaller) until it reaches an arbitrary "vanishing point" where the sun disappears from the bottom up into the horizon?
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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frozen_berries

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 11:52:04 AM »
Read Earth Not A Globe.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 12:23:17 PM »
Very good, frozen_berries.

Markjo, the simplest explanation is that you have not read Earth Not a Globe.
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Thork

Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 12:30:43 PM »
I'd swear he hasn't read it too. The stuff he comes out with. Markjo, do us all a favour and read Earth Not A Globe by Dr Samuel Birley Rowbotham. You have been here years and are a moderator. Please make the time. That book will change your life.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 12:50:52 PM by Thork »
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 12:38:47 PM »
Quote from: zarg on January 25, 2012, 09:46:35 PM
How fast is the UA again?
UA is an acceleration, not a velocity.
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zarg

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 12:39:42 PM »
Quote from: Thork on January 26, 2012, 12:30:43 PM
That book will change your life.

It already has: he has been here years and is a moderator.
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markjo

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 12:46:47 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 26, 2012, 12:23:17 PM
Markjo, the simplest explanation is that you have not read Earth Not a Globe.

Tom, if you need to refer me to a book to explain how the sun sets in the flat earth model, then the explanation must not be more simple than "the round earth rotates until the sun is no longer visible".
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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zarg

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 12:53:58 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on January 26, 2012, 12:38:47 PM
Quote from: zarg on January 25, 2012, 09:46:35 PM
How fast is the UA again?
UA is an acceleration, not a velocity.

While we're being pointlessly pedantic, I should point out that I did not say "velocity"; I said "how fast", a pedantically valid question which could pedantically be interpreted as "how fast is the change in velocity" to which the pedantically valid answer would be "9.8 meters per second, per second."

Of course, we both know that what I meant was "how fast is the Earth hurtling through space as a result of UA". In fact, you'll notice a subtle difference in the two questions "how fast is the UA" and "how does UA work" because what I had in mind for the former question was "the universal accelerator" (which is an object with a velocity), and "universal acceleration" for the latter.

Don't you find it at least a little funny that Tom rejects the concept "that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration" but accepts UA?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 01:48:31 PM »
Quote from: zarg on January 26, 2012, 12:53:58 PM
Don't you find it at least a little funny that Tom rejects the concept "that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration" but accepts UA?

I can't feel the centripetal acceleration of the earth, but I can see the earth rise up to me when I step off the surface of a chair, and I can feel the earth pressing up against my feet when I stand.
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zarg

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 02:45:27 PM »
How fast do you feel yourself moving, Tom?
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The Knowledge

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2012, 02:55:38 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 26, 2012, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: zarg on January 26, 2012, 12:53:58 PM
Don't you find it at least a little funny that Tom rejects the concept "that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration" but accepts UA?

I can't feel the centripetal acceleration of the earth, but I can see the earth rise up to me when I step off the surface of a chair, and I can feel the earth pressing up against my feet when I stand.

UA was disproved by variations in accelerative force at different locations, impossible in an accelerating flat plane without it breaking apart.
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Quote from: John Davis on January 11, 2012, 07:39:16 AM
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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2012, 08:30:14 PM »
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on January 25, 2012, 09:07:43 PM
The phenomenon is known as Celestial Gear Wobbling and can be likened to something like this (Exaggerated to better show the phenomenon).



This is a gross oversimplification, Epicycles are not accurate unless they are almost triple stacked.  That is why they were abandoned.  Not to mention you have no evidence of celestial gears, so how a zetetic could believe in them is beyond me. 
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FlatOrange

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 04:13:28 PM »
1. You feel the earth pressing up against you when you stand.  You also will feel the impact from a wall if you punch it so you must recognize for every force exerted an equal and opposite (direction) force is returned.

2. You do not feel the centripetal forces that you would think you would feel from a spinning globe.  Does one feel air pressure?  Do you feel 14 pounds per square inch pushing on your body?  If the Earth were to stop spinning you would feel the change, if you were to be without air pressure you would notice the change. 

(2. cont.) Have you ever been on this carnival ride? 


The centripetal force is strong but after awhile you become accustomed; you feel like you're heavier and on a slant, but you get used to it.  'm sure if the Earth sped up or slowed down we would feel the centripetal force change.

What we need to do is have someone put a stake in the ground near the north/south pole then tie it to the north/south pole.  As the world turns it should tie itself up, right? I saw it on Pinky and the Brain.

BTW, Simple is the request of this thread.  I'd like to leave out theories/laws/books as much as possible please.  If there are things you've learned from Earth Not A Globe you may present them.  Imagine you are explaining to young children; don't tell them to read a book.  If you can't describe it to a child, you don't understand it yourself.*

*from a famous quote
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 04:18:35 PM by FlatOrange »
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The Knowledge

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Re: Keep it simple
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2012, 04:35:30 PM »
Quote from: The Knowledge on January 26, 2012, 02:55:38 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 26, 2012, 01:48:31 PM
Quote from: zarg on January 26, 2012, 12:53:58 PM
Don't you find it at least a little funny that Tom rejects the concept "that the globe earth is spinning at over a thousand miles per hour - faster than the speed of sound at the equator - despite me being unable able to feel this centripetal acceleration" but accepts UA?

I can't feel the centripetal acceleration of the earth, but I can see the earth rise up to me when I step off the surface of a chair, and I can feel the earth pressing up against my feet when I stand.

UA was disproved by variations in accelerative force at different locations, impossible in an accelerating flat plane without it breaking apart.
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Quote from: John Davis on January 11, 2012, 07:39:16 AM
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.
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