NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2012, 09:42:38 AM »
But none of these amateurs are doing these experiments near nightfall

Please stop saying this. It is patently false. Provide an answer here or here.

You seem to forget that NASA's photos are untrustworthy. ISS isn't "amateur." NASA adds curvature to make it seem that they are higher above the earth than they are.

The images in the second link don't show a spot of darkness.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 09:45:12 AM by Tom Bishop »

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2012, 10:05:31 AM »
ISS isn't "amateur."

The same effect is seen by amateurs. If you read the post, you'd see squevil points this out but just used the ISS image for maximum clarity. I tried to warn him he'd get this response. That's why I gave you a link to my thread as well, which has amateur photography of it.


The images in the second link don't show a spot of darkness.

Geez Tom, first lying, then severe apophenia, now denial. I'm really starting to get worried about your psychological health.
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2012, 10:24:48 AM »
Quote from: zarg
The same effect is seen by amateurs. If you read the post, you'd see squevil points this out but just used the ISS image for maximum clarity. I tried to warn him he'd get this response. That's why I gave you a link to my thread as well, which has amateur photography of it.

The ISS photos have "maximum clarity" because they are fraudulent. There is not that much curvature in the photos. The "spot of darkness" is more like a line of darkness.

Quote from: zarg
Geez Tom, first lying, then severe apophenia, now denial. I'm really starting to get worried about your psychological health.

Ignoratio elenchi

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2012, 10:26:48 AM »
What creates or causes the appearance of this circle?
The sun illuminates the earth, creating a circle of light.
Please provide evidence that supports your conjecture. How did you determine that the Sun creates a circle of light illuminating the Earth? How do you know that it's not an ellipse? Have your traveled to every spot on the Earth on every day of the year to make the observations necessary to know that? You sure seem to be making things up yet again.

Why would a spherical sun sun make an ellipse?

Please read Earth Not a Globe. The sun casts a circular area of light upon the earth.
I thought your method was to gather data before making a decision. Oh well.

So are you saying that the spherical globe would not cover send illumination everywhere? Why would the illumination be a circle? Remember this is your claim, so you need to provide the evidence to support it. Have your traveled to every spot on the Earth on every day of the year to make the observations necessary to know that? You sure seem to be making things up yet again.

Moving the goalposts

    "Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. This attempts to leave the impression that an argument had a fair hearing while actually reaching a preordained conclusion."

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2012, 10:35:25 AM »
Quote from: zarg
Geez Tom, first lying, then severe apophenia, now denial. I'm really starting to get worried about your psychological health.

Ignoratio elenchi

What, exactly, am I ignoring? Did you make a valid argument for your claim that there is no "circle of darkness" in those photos? I must have missed it. The photos in the link in my thread clearly range from the "circle of light" that you claim they are seeing, which then gradually turns dark, leaving a concave sliver of light, just like in squevil's ISS photo. You say the photos don't exist. They do. That's denial.
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2012, 10:53:36 AM »
Quote from: zarg
Geez Tom, first lying, then severe apophenia, now denial. I'm really starting to get worried about your psychological health.

Ignoratio elenchi

What, exactly, am I ignoring? Did you make a valid argument for your claim that there is no "circle of darkness" in those photos? I must have missed it. The photos in the link in my thread clearly range from the "circle of light" that you claim they are seeing, which then gradually turns dark, leaving a concave sliver of light, just like in squevil's ISS photo. You say the photos don't exist. They do. That's denial.

Here are the images from Project Solar:

1.

Do you see a "Spot of Darkness"? I don't.

2.

No Spot of Darkness here either.

3.

Nope.

4.

Nope.

5.

Nope.

6.

Nope.

7. http://www.mikedeep.com/Aviation/Sunrise-Soar-II-2010-08-07/20100807070305SD8003861/974409422_rwv4E-M-2.jpg

Nope.

8. http://www.mikedeep.com/Aviation/Sunrise-Soar-II-2010-08-07/20100807071458SD8003921/974410563_v3AtL-M-2.jpg

Nope.

9. http://www.mikedeep.com/Aviation/Sunrise-Soar-II-2010-08-07/20100807071458SD8003921/974410563_v3AtL-M-2.jpg

Nope

10. http://www.mikedeep.com/Aviation/Sunrise-Soar-II-2010-08-07/20100807071744SD8003935/974410799_Bcszz-M-2.jpg

Nope

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2012, 11:01:10 AM »
In Image No 2. I don't see a spot of darkness, but I do see an oval of light.



The rest are showing distant ovals.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 11:03:52 AM by Tom Bishop »

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2012, 11:03:22 AM »
Do you see a "Spot of Darkness"? I don't.

I don't see anything that looks to me like a "spot of light" or a "spot of darkness", but I'm adapting your terminology. For instance, you refer to this as a circle of light:



So it stands to reason that this should be referred to as a circle of darkness:



Both the light area in the first picture and the corresponding dark area in the second picture are convex. Explain.
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2012, 11:05:06 AM »
The horizon isn't convex. It's flat.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 11:16:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2012, 11:08:17 AM »
More denial. They're not flat. When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread (I don't think Brother Scvs appreciates discussions of globularist propaganda in the midst of his moral protest thread).
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2012, 11:30:51 AM »
More denial. They're not flat. When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread (I don't think Brother Scvs appreciates discussions of globularist propaganda in the midst of his moral protest thread).

Funny you mention your derailment discussion after you've lost the debate.

Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2012, 12:37:03 PM »
What creates or causes the appearance of this circle?
The sun illuminates the earth, creating a circle of light.
Please provide evidence that supports your conjecture. How did you determine that the Sun creates a circle of light illuminating the Earth? How do you know that it's not an ellipse? Have your traveled to every spot on the Earth on every day of the year to make the observations necessary to know that? You sure seem to be making things up yet again.

Why would a spherical sun sun make an ellipse?

Please read Earth Not a Globe. The sun casts a circular area of light upon the earth.
I thought your method was to gather data before making a decision. Oh well.

So are you saying that the spherical globe would not cover send illumination everywhere? Why would the illumination be a circle? Remember this is your claim, so you need to provide the evidence to support it. Have your traveled to every spot on the Earth on every day of the year to make the observations necessary to know that? You sure seem to be making things up yet again.

Moving the goalposts

    "Moving the goalposts, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. This attempts to leave the impression that an argument had a fair hearing while actually reaching a preordained conclusion."
Wrong. I did not dismiss any response is this thread. I've been asking questions. Asking follow-up questions is not moving the goalposts.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2012, 12:40:17 PM »
In Image No 2. I don't see a spot of darkness, but I do see an oval of light.



The rest are showing distant ovals.

Since ovals are ellipses, please answer your own challenge here:

What creates or causes the appearance of this circle?
The sun illuminates the earth, creating a circle of light.
Please provide evidence that supports your conjecture. How did you determine that the Sun creates a circle of light illuminating the Earth? How do you know that it's not an ellipse? Have your traveled to every spot on the Earth on every day of the year to make the observations necessary to know that? You sure seem to be making things up yet again.

Why would a spherical sun sun make an ellipse?

Please read Earth Not a Globe. The sun casts a circular area of light upon the earth.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2012, 03:27:14 PM »
In Image No 2. I don't see a spot of darkness, but I do see an oval of light.



The rest are showing distant ovals.

Since ovals are ellipses, please answer your own challenge here:

What creates or causes the appearance of this circle?
The sun illuminates the earth, creating a circle of light.
Please provide evidence that supports your conjecture. How did you determine that the Sun creates a circle of light illuminating the Earth? How do you know that it's not an ellipse? Have your traveled to every spot on the Earth on every day of the year to make the observations necessary to know that? You sure seem to be making things up yet again.

Why would a spherical sun sun make an ellipse?

Please read Earth Not a Globe. The sun casts a circular area of light upon the earth.

Looking at a circle from an angle makes an oval.

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2012, 04:29:31 PM »
More denial. They're not flat. When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread (I don't think Brother Scvs appreciates discussions of globularist propaganda in the midst of his moral protest thread).

Funny you mention your derailment discussion after you've lost the debate.

What?
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2012, 05:30:20 PM »
In Image No 2. I don't see a spot of darkness, but I do see an oval of light.



The rest are showing distant ovals.

Since ovals are ellipses, please answer your own challenge here:

What creates or causes the appearance of this circle?
The sun illuminates the earth, creating a circle of light.
Please provide evidence that supports your conjecture. How did you determine that the Sun creates a circle of light illuminating the Earth? How do you know that it's not an ellipse? Have your traveled to every spot on the Earth on every day of the year to make the observations necessary to know that? You sure seem to be making things up yet again.

Why would a spherical sun sun make an ellipse?

Please read Earth Not a Globe. The sun casts a circular area of light upon the earth.

Looking at a circle from an angle makes an oval.
Tom, thanks so much for the concession. I was rather sure that your claim that the cameras were looking down on a circle was wrong, but I really appreciate your saying it here.

Now let's back up to your claim before your error. What causes the ellipse in the first place?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2012, 05:32:37 PM »
More denial. They're not flat. When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread (I don't think Brother Scvs appreciates discussions of globularist propaganda in the midst of his moral protest thread).

Funny you mention your derailment discussion after you've lost the debate.

What?
Agreed. What is the world is Rushy smoking? Isn't his post itself a derailment?

Now on topic: amateur photos confirm NASA's. That lends great credibility to NASA.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2012, 06:12:28 PM »
More denial. They're not flat. When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread (I don't think Brother Scvs appreciates discussions of globularist propaganda in the midst of his moral protest thread).

Funny you mention your derailment discussion after you've lost the debate.

What?
Agreed. What is the world is Rushy smoking? Isn't his post itself a derailment?

Now on topic: amateur photos confirm NASA's. That lends great credibility to NASA.

Yes, don't worry Zarg, ClockTower, who loses all of his debates as well, is here to console you and give you a pat on the back. He knows how it feels and would probably advise you push onward until you reach over five thousand posts and no one takes you seriously. I'm here to advise you not to do that, admit you lost to Tom Bishop and try to get him again later. You could always continue to be in denial (you heavily accused Tom of it) and think this isn't an absolute loss.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2012, 06:25:29 PM »
Looking at a circle from an angle makes an oval.
Tom, thanks so much for the concession. I was rather sure that your claim that the cameras were looking down on a circle was wrong, but I really appreciate your saying it here.

Now let's back up to your claim before your error. What causes the ellipse in the first place?

The sun's area of light is a circle. Looking at an angle makes an oval. It does not mean that the sun is projecting an oval shape upon the earth.

Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2012, 06:47:55 PM »
Looking at a circle from an angle makes an oval.
Tom, thanks so much for the concession. I was rather sure that your claim that the cameras were looking down on a circle was wrong, but I really appreciate your saying it here.

Now let's back up to your claim before your error. What causes the ellipse in the first place?

The sun's area of light is a circle. Looking at an angle makes an oval. It does not mean that the sun is projecting an oval shape upon the earth.
Thanks again for the concession. Tell us how you determined that the Sun's area of light is a circle. From optics we know that a sphere projecting illumination in all directions would cast light over the entire plane of the FE. Even if you want to invoke some magic (like bendy light or projection onto the atmolayer or opaque atmolayer at a distance) why would this magic produce a circle?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2012, 08:54:06 PM »
More denial. They're not flat. When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread (I don't think Brother Scvs appreciates discussions of globularist propaganda in the midst of his moral protest thread).

Funny you mention your derailment discussion after you've lost the debate.

What?
Agreed. What is the world is Rushy smoking? Isn't his post itself a derailment?

Now on topic: amateur photos confirm NASA's. That lends great credibility to NASA.

Yes, don't worry Zarg, ClockTower, who loses all of his debates as well, is here to console you and give you a pat on the back. He knows how it feels and would probably advise you push onward until you reach over five thousand posts and no one takes you seriously. I'm here to advise you not to do that, admit you lost to Tom Bishop and try to get him again later. You could always continue to be in denial (you heavily accused Tom of it) and think this isn't an absolute loss.

Actually, I asked "what" because I literally didn't know what you were talking about. The only thing I can gather is that you thought I told Tom to stop the argument (because I was afraid of losing); while in reality I didn't say I wanted him to stop, I just wanted him to put his replies in the appropriate thread.

Unless of course you like this better. We can stay here too.

Either way, I'm waiting for Tom to explain the photos rather than deny that they exist. Tom knows that the curvature is visible in both night and day shots, he has posted several examples himself. " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Here's a video of the same thing. There are even more still on the Project Soar website. Tom just likes to pretend he can't see it. Maybe it's just a phase he's going through. I'll wait.
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2012, 08:56:25 PM »
More denial. They're not flat. When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread (I don't think Brother Scvs appreciates discussions of globularist propaganda in the midst of his moral protest thread).

Funny you mention your derailment discussion after you've lost the debate.

What?
Agreed. What is the world is Rushy smoking? Isn't his post itself a derailment?

Now on topic: amateur photos confirm NASA's. That lends great credibility to NASA.

Yes, don't worry Zarg, ClockTower, who loses all of his debates as well, is here to console you and give you a pat on the back. He knows how it feels and would probably advise you push onward until you reach over five thousand posts and no one takes you seriously. I'm here to advise you not to do that, admit you lost to Tom Bishop and try to get him again later. You could always continue to be in denial (you heavily accused Tom of it) and think this isn't an absolute loss.

Actually, I asked "what" because I literally didn't know what you were talking about. The only thing I can gather is that you thought I told Tom to stop the argument (because I was afraid of losing); while in reality I didn't say I wanted him to stop, I just wanted him to put his replies in the appropriate thread.

Unless of course you like this better. We can stay here too.

Either way, I'm waiting for Tom to explain the photos rather than deny that they exist. Tom knows that the curvature is visible in both night and day shots, he has posted several examples himself. " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Here's a video of the same thing. There are even more still on the Project Soar website. Tom just likes to pretend he can't see it. Maybe it's just a phase he's going through. I'll wait.

Wouldn't it have been better to mention that the first or second post into the derail rather than a page or so later?

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2012, 08:59:11 PM »
Better to mention what, exactly?
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

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Rushy

  • 8971
Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2012, 09:05:22 PM »
Better to mention what, exactly?

I just wanted him to put his replies in the appropriate thread.

lurk...your own posts moar?

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2012, 09:12:38 PM »
Uh... I did?

When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

*

Rushy

  • 8971
Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2012, 09:16:15 PM »
Uh... I did?

When you have an explanation that accepts reality, please post it in the appropriate thread

On the sixth reply? That hardly constitutes the beginning of the discussion.

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zarg

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2012, 09:20:55 PM »
Ah. I thought you were under the impression that I was first mentioning it only now.

Yes, mentioning it 3 replies earlier would have been that much more ideal. Naturally.  Your point?
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.

*

Rushy

  • 8971
Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2012, 09:22:11 PM »
Your point?
Yes, mentioning it 3 replies earlier would have been that much more ideal.

I don't understand this new "answer myself" crusade.

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2012, 09:32:28 PM »
Looking at a circle from an angle makes an oval.
Tom, thanks so much for the concession. I was rather sure that your claim that the cameras were looking down on a circle was wrong, but I really appreciate your saying it here.

Now let's back up to your claim before your error. What causes the ellipse in the first place?

The sun's area of light is a circle. Looking at an angle makes an oval. It does not mean that the sun is projecting an oval shape upon the earth.

Fail troll is fail.  How would a spherical light work as a spotlight?  Makes no sense.  Does it have invisible reflectors all around it to focus it?
 
I suggest you turn on a light bulb without a housing, and see where the light shines.  I assure you it will not work like a flashlight.

I want to hear some magic.

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zarg

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  • Saudi Arabian inventor of Dr. Pepper
Re: NASA Wastes More Tax Dollars
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2012, 09:36:38 PM »
Your point?
Yes, mentioning it 3 replies earlier would have been that much more ideal.

I don't understand this new "answer myself" crusade.

You should really stop acting like PizzaPlanet. Nobody likes that guy. The make-you-reply-to-yourself game is even lamer than the rif.org links.

I'm asking why you felt it worthwhile to point out that I asked Tom to move to the other thread in my third reply instead of my first.
Quote from: Cat Earth Theory
[Lord Wilmore's writings] are written the way a high schooler thinks an educated person should sound like.  The pathetic pseudo-academic writing can't hide the lack of any real substance.