SOPA Blackout on January 18th..

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2012, 03:55:42 PM »
Will the site be off for a day to protest the Great Firewall of China?
We've already agreed that taking the site down is a terrible idea. Don't try to force the same concession two times.
The point here is whether you give a crap.

why should I give a crap about the yanks?
Is this the answer to my question?

I'm sorry? Why would TFES go offline? What on earth makes you think this site would be targeted by SOPA? It is for stopping online piracy. Not closing down deranged discussion by social misfits about the shape of the earth.
Large amounts of materials shared here violate copyright. For example, the thread where we post links to bad songs. If SOPA goes live, that thread will be sufficient grounds to take down everything under the theflatearthsociety.org domain.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Thork

Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2012, 04:03:58 PM »
Do I give a crap? No, of course not. As we agreed, its not likely to change my/most people's lives a jot. Just American kids who stole too much for too long.

If Daniel got wind that the site is likely to be shut down (ie bigger targets got shut down first for doing things we do) he'd move it. If he doesn't, long live president John Davis and his then superior European hosted site. However there would be little appetite for shutting down sites like this. It would cost too much and there isn't enough revenue to be recovered from a few hot links that are copyrighted.

I would add, how often does that example come up, bearing in mind most pictures like that come up
or ?

Its not plausible. Sites like this wouldn't even enter the concious for SOPA. SOPA is about recovering lost revenue. Not blowing it trying to stamp out the internet.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 04:12:13 PM by Thork »

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2012, 04:12:03 PM »
As we agreed, its not likely to change my/most people's lives a jot.
I absolutely disagree about most people. Whether or not it will affect your life depends on how willing you are to learn new things.
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Thork

Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2012, 04:13:06 PM »
Please give me an example of how this will adversely affect my life.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2012, 05:10:48 PM »
I'm not a fan of SOPA, but let's keep the complaints realistic.  No, this website would not be in danger of being shut down if it passed.  Nobody is going to care enough to push a complaint about a picture here all the way.

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2012, 05:28:00 PM »
I support this action, Daniel.

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Tausami

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2012, 05:31:23 PM »

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2012, 06:48:58 PM »
Nobody is going to care enough to push a complaint about a picture here all the way.
Except for Tom Bishop, who's already been threatening Daniel with complaining to ICANN. Without SOPA, his threats are utter rubbish. With it, it's all a question of how well American law is executed.
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markjo

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2012, 06:50:35 PM »
Whether or not this site is on the SOPA/PIPA radar really isn't the point.  The point is that SOPA/PIPA are bad legislation and should be opposed.  Blacking out this site is merely one way of showing that opposition that this legislation so rightly deserves.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2012, 06:53:44 PM »
While I agree with markjo, I believe that Wikipedia's blackout will be known as "Wikipedia's blackout" and not "Wikipedia and the Flat Earth Society's blackout". The only people that'll feel our "opposition" will be the users of this website.
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markjo

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2012, 07:05:32 PM »
While I agree with markjo, I believe that Wikipedia's blackout will be known as "Wikipedia's blackout" and not "Wikipedia and the Flat Earth Society's blackout". The only people that'll feel our "opposition" will be the users of this website.

I think that some here are underestimating the number of sites participating in the blackout: http://sopastrike.com/
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2012, 07:35:07 PM »
Except for Tom Bishop, who's already been threatening Daniel with complaining to ICANN. Without SOPA, his threats are utter rubbish. With it, it's all a question of how well American law is executed.

That's not how copyright law works.  You need actual legal standing to enforce a copyright claim.  An unrelated third party pressing a claim of copyright infringement would be like me pressing charges against Peter for hitting Paul.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2012, 10:30:31 PM »
I think that some here are underestimating the number of sites participating in the blackout: http://sopastrike.com/
No, I'm (possibly, if anything) underestimating the significance of FES on the Interwebs.

That's not how copyright law works.  You need actual legal standing to enforce a copyright claim.  An unrelated third party pressing a claim of copyright infringement would be like me pressing charges against Peter for hitting Paul.
In some countries, and, - to make this more relevant - states, If you see Peter hitting Paul, you are legally obliged to report it as a crime. Of course, you wouldn't do it (or, rather, I wouldn't. I shouldn't speak for you), but that's just one more case of the law disagreeing with reality. In jurisdictions where you don't have to report an observed crime, you still can report it. I don't think there exists any situation where you cannot report a crime to the authorities.

Examples:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/4.html
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.22
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:15:02 PM by PizzaPlanet »
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Blanko

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2012, 08:09:25 AM »
I don't see any point in taking down FES. This is a relatively small community, and no one but us are even going to notice it went down. This serves no other purpose than to deprive regular users from their daily FES dosage.

And no, depriving me from FES isn't going to make me think any less of SOPA, it's just going to make me think this was a shit and useless idea.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 09:36:11 AM »
Inconveniencing your audience is a terrible way to "spread the word." It's like if you went to the mall and someone parked a bus in front of your car with advertisements and public service announcements all over it, blocking you in for several hours and forcing you to stare at the ads until the owner returns. Is that a good way to advertise a cause? Absolutely not.

There are other ways to bring attention to a cause without inconveniencing users for a 24 hour period. A pass-through page could easily be put up that people see before entering the website. A news article or sticky thready could be added. I'm not passionate about this cause, and it's outrageous that anyone would think that advertising-by-inconvenience is an acceptable tactic.

I'm not going to be any more interested in this movement by staring at a black advertisement page all day telling me to. Only an immoral person would think to do something like that.

Shame on Daniel.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 11:41:42 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Eddy Baby

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 10:10:53 AM »
It's not like this site doesn't get guests viewing every day. So it will have an effect, albeit a small one. But what is an ocean but a multitude of drops?

And Daniel, that Richard O'Dwyer case is preposterous. And a fellow Steel Citizen!
I spent all of 5 minutes learning about bloody gods just before the exam and its bloody qeistions on fox hunting and abortions.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2012, 10:18:43 AM »
It's not like this site doesn't get guests viewing every day. So it will have an effect, albeit a small one.

There are other ways to bring attention to something without shutting down a website. When MySpace wants to bring attention to amazing McDonalds deals they put up pass-through pages and in-page advertisements.

Shutting down a website and replacing it with an ad is a terrible way to advertise. It's equivalent to someone blocking your car in with a bus with ads plastered on it to force you to look at them. Only a true and utter a-hole would do something like that.

Shame on Daniel.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 04:45:02 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Lorddave

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2012, 10:52:17 AM »
Wait... If we all know it'll be down why would we visit?
If no one visits, the info page becomes useless.

Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2012, 10:53:26 AM »
I agree with Tom Bishop.


(Feel free to sig this quote in whatever context you choose.)

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markjo

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2012, 12:40:23 PM »
It's not like this site doesn't get guests viewing every day. So it will have an effect, albeit a small one.

There are other ways to bring attention to something without shutting down a website. When MySpace wants to bring attention to amazing McDonalds deals they put up pass-through pages and in-page advertisements.

Shutting down a website and replacing it with an ad is a terrible way to advertise. It's equivalent to someone blocking your car in with a bus plastered with ads to force you to look at them. Only a true a-hole would do something like that.

Shame on Daniel.

*sigh*
If Daniel was doing this to advertise a McDonalds deal, then you might have a point, but since he isn't, you don't.  SOPA and PIPA are terrible pieces of legislation that could have a profound negative impact on the internet if they are allowed to pass.  Sometimes drastic measures are needed to get people's attention.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Thork

Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2012, 12:54:22 PM »
*sigh*
Just because you spend all your time on 4chan, a militant hotbed of piracy for children, doesn't mean the views of angry 14 year olds on said site bears any relevance to reality. Teenagers are always angry about something. Not being able to steal movies, music and games has no doubt mobilised a generation of bedroom vigilantes to make up all kinds of rubbish that you are swallowing spoonful after spoonful. SOPA is not about shutting down the internet. It is about stopping people stealing content.

SOPA and PIPA are terrible pieces of legislation that could have a profound negative impact on the internet if they are allowed to pass.[Citation Needed]
You're just making stuff up now.

Sometimes drastic measures are needed to get people's attention.
Turning off FES is a drastic measure? Whose attention is it going to get? Its the internet equivalent of running up to your bedroom in tears and slamming the door behind you screaming "Don't talk to me! You're ruining my life!" :'(

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Tom Bishop

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2012, 12:56:21 PM »
It's not like this site doesn't get guests viewing every day. So it will have an effect, albeit a small one.

There are other ways to bring attention to something without shutting down a website. When MySpace wants to bring attention to amazing McDonalds deals they put up pass-through pages and in-page advertisements.

Shutting down a website and replacing it with an ad is a terrible way to advertise. It's equivalent to someone blocking your car in with a bus plastered with ads to force you to look at them. Only a true a-hole would do something like that.

Shame on Daniel.

*sigh*
If Daniel was doing this to advertise a McDonalds deal, then you might have a point, but since he isn't, you don't.  SOPA and PIPA are terrible pieces of legislation that could have a profound negative impact on the internet if they are allowed to pass.  Sometimes drastic measures are needed to get people's attention.

If the the advertisements on the side of the bus say "Save the Rainforest," it still doesn't make it okay for them to block you in.

Daniel is advertising-by-inconvenience, which is a dirty and despicable way to get attention. The online piracy bill he's rallying against doesn't even have anything to do with this site. If Daniel wants to spread the word about a subject there are better ways to go about it than being an a-hole to everyone.

Shame on Daniel. Shame on you.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 01:14:05 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Benjamin Franklin

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2012, 01:15:25 PM »
I am speaking out of my ass and didn't even give SOPA a cursory Google.
We could all tell, don't worry.

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Thork

Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2012, 01:36:02 PM »
I'm another furious child who may also lose the ability to steal games, movies and music on the internet.
Figures. ::)

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Supertails

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2012, 01:37:38 PM »
I'm another furious child who may also lose the ability to steal games, movies and music on the internet.
Figures. ::)

*turns on Markjo signal*

Also you are saying dumb things.
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Saddam Hussein

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2012, 04:06:07 PM »
That's not how copyright law works.  You need actual legal standing to enforce a copyright claim.  An unrelated third party pressing a claim of copyright infringement would be like me pressing charges against Peter for hitting Paul.
In some countries, and, - to make this more relevant - states, If you see Peter hitting Paul, you are legally obliged to report it as a crime. Of course, you wouldn't do it (or, rather, I wouldn't. I shouldn't speak for you), but that's just one more case of the law disagreeing with reality. In jurisdictions where you don't have to report an observed crime, you still can report it. I don't think there exists any situation where you cannot report a crime to the authorities.

Examples:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/4.html
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.22

Simply reporting a crime and pressing charges are two different things.  All I meant with my analogy is that it is Paul who decides if he wants to press charges against Peter.  Nobody else can demand that Peter be prosecuted.  They had nothing to do it; it's none of their business.

Similarly, in copyright law, it is only the copyright holder who can press a claim of infringement against a website.  ISPs can't take legal action against a website based on nothing more than the say-so of an unrelated party.

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markjo

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2012, 04:14:29 PM »
Similarly, in copyright law, it is only the copyright holder who can press a claim of infringement against a website.

Tell that to the MPAA and RIAA.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2012, 06:05:41 PM »
Tell that to the MPAA and RIAA.

The MPAA and RIAA are trade groups that represent their members.  I didn't think that I really needed to elaborate on that kind of example, seeing how I was primarily trying to illustrate why Tom Bishop can't use copyright law to satisfy his grudge against this website.  I guess I should have known better than that.

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markjo

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Re: SOPA Blackout on January 18th..
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2012, 06:40:15 PM »
http://www.examiner.com/computers-in-denver/house-kills-sopa

Perhaps not.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/sopa-livesand-mpaa-calls-protests-an-abuse-of-power.ars
Quote
The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) has looked at tomorrow's "Internet blackout" in opposition to the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)—and it sees only a "gimmick," a "stunt," "hyperbole," "a dangerous and troubling development," an "irresponsible response," and an "abuse of power."

If anybody knows what constitutes an abuse of power, it's the MPAA.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.