Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike

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Pongo

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Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« on: December 29, 2011, 05:13:13 PM »
The Tour de France Training Bike ( http://www.fitnessexperts.com/proform-tour-de-france-bike/?gclid=CP6ovenMqK0CFQmd7QodVnOInA ) is inaccurate, as it uses demonstrably false GoogleMaps to calculate its route. I think I am going to submit an idea for the Flat Earth Rowing Boat which uses Flat Earth maps to simulate boating trips. It would be educational and healthy.  I'll keep you guys posted.

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 05:17:04 PM »
The Tour de France Training Bike ( http://www.fitnessexperts.com/proform-tour-de-france-bike/?gclid=CP6ovenMqK0CFQmd7QodVnOInA ) is inaccurate, as it uses demonstrably false GoogleMaps to calculate its route. I think I am going to submit an idea for the Flat Earth Rowing Boat which uses Flat Earth maps to simulate boating trips. It would be educational and healthy.  I'll keep you guys posted.
I suspect that you've confused "demonstratively false" with "limited in precision", again.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 05:25:36 PM »
The Tour de France Training Bike ( http://www.fitnessexperts.com/proform-tour-de-france-bike/?gclid=CP6ovenMqK0CFQmd7QodVnOInA ) is inaccurate, as it uses demonstrably false GoogleMaps to calculate its route. I think I am going to submit an idea for the Flat Earth Rowing Boat which uses Flat Earth maps to simulate boating trips. It would be educational and healthy.  I'll keep you guys posted.
I suspect that you've confused "demonstratively false" with "limited in precision", again.

I believe you've confused demonstrably with demonstratively again. It's okay, I'm willing to let it slide. Let me walk you through it...

The Earth is flat.
Google Maps thinks it's round.
Tour Bike uses Google Maps.
Tour Bike is wrong.

Simple, see?

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 05:41:32 PM »
The Tour de France Training Bike ( http://www.fitnessexperts.com/proform-tour-de-france-bike/?gclid=CP6ovenMqK0CFQmd7QodVnOInA ) is inaccurate, as it uses demonstrably false GoogleMaps to calculate its route. I think I am going to submit an idea for the Flat Earth Rowing Boat which uses Flat Earth maps to simulate boating trips. It would be educational and healthy.  I'll keep you guys posted.
I suspect that you've confused "demonstratively false" with "limited in precision", again.

I believe you've confused demonstrably with demonstratively again. It's okay, I'm willing to let it slide. Let me walk you through it...

The Earth is flat.
Google Maps thinks it's round.
Tour Bike uses Google Maps.
Tour Bike is wrong.

Simple, see?
That would be arguing from a false premise. Fail.

Now who said, "Whenever someone corrects my spelling and resorts to personal attacks I always sit back, smile, and count a win for me ... "?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 05:50:44 PM »
I thought you simply misread it. I wanted my post to be as unambiguous for you as possible. AND, that was in response to your personal attack.  Also, I said I was willing to let it slide...

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Rushy

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2011, 05:54:17 PM »
Are you suggesting when I use google maps to see which road I am on and how long it is, that I am on a different road with a different length?

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2011, 06:00:47 PM »
I thought you simply misread it. I wanted my post to be as unambiguous for you as possible. AND, that was in response to your personal attack.  Also, I said I was willing to let it slide...
1) Where did I personally attack you? I did point out a logic error, but that's not personal.
2) How do you figure that you let it slide?
3) How do you demonstrate anything arguing from a false premise?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2011, 06:01:08 PM »
Are you suggesting when I use google maps to see which road I am on and how long it is, that I am on a different road with a different length?

No.


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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2011, 06:08:13 PM »
I thought you simply misread it. I wanted my post to be as unambiguous for you as possible. AND, that was in response to your personal attack.  Also, I said I was willing to let it slide...
1) Where did I personally attack you? I did point out a logic error, but that's not personal.
2) How do you figure that you let it slide?
3) How do you demonstrate anything arguing from a false premise?

1) When you said that I personally confused something (again), in a condescending tone.

2) Cause I said so.

3) It's an ontological agruement, the foundation of all modern thought and the basis of philosophy and learning.

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2011, 06:17:59 PM »

1) When you said that I personally confused something (again), in a condescending tone.

2) Cause I said so.

3) It's an ontological agruement, the foundation of all modern thought and the basis of philosophy and learning.
1) Just how did you detect my tone? Is there some audio feature of CMS I should know about? I did not say that you personallyconfused something. I said you confused something. Do pay attention.
2) Nope. If you hit someone for insulting you, saying "I'm going to let that insult slide." does not "unhit" someone.
3) And arguing from a false premise is a fallacy in an argument.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2011, 10:17:48 PM »
1) One of the great things about the English language is the vastness of words and even different meanings of the same word. In relation to French, for example, the English language has many more ways to express the same idea over audio or written media. This grants us a more robust poetry and pros that other languages simply lack. The downside of course is a greater difficulty in mastering the language both for natives and nonnatives to its tongue. For example, you may be unaware, but the word "tone" actually has more than one meaning. Since its obvious by your chiding that you cannot be troubled to look it up yourself, I will provide a link:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Tone

I do hope that clears some things up for you. I suggest that you bookmark that link to dictionary.com and reference it as often as you need.

As for the difference between, "Private, you confused the ammo," and, "Private, you personally confused the ammo," I can distinguish no literal difference. Please elaborate.

2) To continue, and like I've already said, I was making sure you understood me. "Demonstratively" and "demonstrably" are two different words. This is a great instance where that link to a dictionary will aid you. Don't be shy to use it whenever you're in doubt.

3) Perhaps, but we would have to agree that the premise is false. We clearly do not.



Finally, moar talk of Tour Bike!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 10:20:19 PM by Pongo »

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2011, 10:26:09 PM »
1) One of the great things about the English language is the vastness of words and even different meanings of the same word. In relation to French, for example, the English language has many more ways to express the same idea over audio or written media. This grants us a more robust poetry and pros that other languages simply lack. The downside of course is a greater difficulty in mastering the language both for natives and nonnatives to its tongue. For example, you may be unaware, but the word "tone" actually has more than one meaning. Since its obvious by your chiding that you cannot be troubled to look it up yourself, I will provide a link:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Tone

I do hope that clears some things up for you. I suggest that you bookmark that link to dictionary.com and reference it as often as you need.

As for the difference between, "Private, you confused the ammo," and, "Private, you personally confused the ammo," I can distinguish no literal difference. Please elaborate.

2) To continue, and like I've already said, I was making sure you understood me. "Demonstratively" and "demonstrably" are two different words. This is a great instance where that link to a dictionary will aid you. Don't be shy to use it whenever you're in doubt.

3) Perhaps, but we would have to agree that the premise is false. We clearly do not.



Finally, moar talk of Tour Bike!
1) And yet you can't explain how you determined my tone. I guess you can't. Oh, if you can't determine a difference with the word "personally" added, then why did you use that word?
2) So you agree then, you didn't let it slide. I win. Thanks!
3) You're confused again. Arguing from a false premise includes arguing from a premise that is in dispute. Since we agree that it's in dispute, I guess you lose again.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 11:14:28 PM »
I can agree with one thing in your post, I am indeed confused. Very much so in fact. I cannot follow your lines of reasoning, they meander like the wistful delusions of a vagrant madman whose invariable end is a vainglorious view into Narcissus' pond.  Count this a "win" if you would like, but I would ask you to not contribute to my threads in the future if all you are to bring are these inane derailings and self-certified circuitous logic failures.

If one day however, you can bring something of substance, I will welcome your views and ideas.

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 12:13:38 AM »
I can agree with one thing in your post, I am indeed confused. Very much so in fact. I cannot follow your lines of reasoning, they meander like the wistful delusions of a vagrant madman whose invariable end is a vainglorious view into Narcissus' pond.  Count this a "win" if you would like, but I would ask you to not contribute to my threads in the future if all you are to bring are these inane derailings and self-certified circuitous logic failures.

If one day however, you can bring something of substance, I will welcome your views and ideas.
So another FEer when faced with having to learn something about reasoning throws in the towel. I had hoped you were up to the task.

I remind you with the hope that you'll learn: arguing from a false (or even one not known to be true) premise is an error in logic. If you learn that then you might find it easier to follow logic. Good luck.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 03:58:27 AM »
That bike looks like a whole lot of win... but then I also noticed the GoogleMaps issue.
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2011, 09:18:17 AM »
I can agree with one thing in your post, I am indeed confused. Very much so in fact. I cannot follow your lines of reasoning, they meander like the wistful delusions of a vagrant madman whose invariable end is a vainglorious view into Narcissus' pond.  Count this a "win" if you would like, but I would ask you to not contribute to my threads in the future if all you are to bring are these inane derailings and self-certified circuitous logic failures.

If one day however, you can bring something of substance, I will welcome your views and ideas.
So another FEer when faced with having to learn something about reasoning throws in the towel. I had hoped you were up to the task.

I remind you with the hope that you'll learn: arguing from a false (or even one not known to be true) premise is an error in logic. If you learn that then you might find it easier to follow logic. Good luck.

At this point, I see debating you as trying to take the Special Olympic medal away from the retarded kid. It was through his retardation that he won the medal and he's super freaking proud of it. Now, if I were to take this "win" away from, how much satisfaction could I gain?

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2011, 04:12:23 PM »
I can agree with one thing in your post, I am indeed confused. Very much so in fact. I cannot follow your lines of reasoning, they meander like the wistful delusions of a vagrant madman whose invariable end is a vainglorious view into Narcissus' pond.  Count this a "win" if you would like, but I would ask you to not contribute to my threads in the future if all you are to bring are these inane derailings and self-certified circuitous logic failures.

If one day however, you can bring something of substance, I will welcome your views and ideas.
So another FEer when faced with having to learn something about reasoning throws in the towel. I had hoped you were up to the task.

I remind you with the hope that you'll learn: arguing from a false (or even one not known to be true) premise is an error in logic. If you learn that then you might find it easier to follow logic. Good luck.

At this point, I see debating you as trying to take the Special Olympic medal away from the retarded kid. It was through his retardation that he won the medal and he's super freaking proud of it. Now, if I were to take this "win" away from, how much satisfaction could I gain?
Remind me who says that the person called a name by his opponent wins.

To the topic: you've failed to show that this bike fails in any meaningful way. Indeed, your argument seems to be if Google Maps isn't a perfect representation of real life then the bike is worthless. The analogy would be refusing to watch live news reports on TV because the report is only two-dimensional.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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El Cid

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 03:29:50 AM »
France is 674,843 square kilometers.  The surface area of the Earth is 510,072,000 square kilometers.  This is more than 750 times as big.  The distortion in France only, in the polar azimuthal equidistant projection, is very low.  I can't see it visibly with my eye.  I suppose it all depends on whether you're denying the existence the inertia problem, that a circumnavigation of the world is a circle.

Anywho, Pongo had a mean tone, so that's a personal attack, so everything he said is wrong anyway, so it's all irrelevant anyway.  I don't know why I'm even arguing it.

As for the false premise thing, here's an idiot-proof (hopefully) example:

1. I am immortal (false premise).
2. I cannot die.
3. If I jump off a cliff, I won't die.

So, what if someone says, "I'll give you five dollars if you jump off that cliff!"  So I do it.  But, my premise, that I am immortal, was false, so the conclusion, that jumping off a cliff won't kill me, was also false!  Imagine that!  Starting with a false premise led to a false conclusion.  I actually will die if I jump off a cliff, unfortunately.

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Pongo

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2011, 08:17:14 AM »
I did indeed have a rather vile tone, but I did not strike first. Also, how do you know you're not immortal?

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2011, 09:25:18 AM »
I did indeed have a rather vile tone, but I did not strike first. Also, how do you know you're not immortal?
1) Only in your mind.
2) Exactly our point. You can indeed make the mistake of arguing from a false premise even when you just don't know that the premise is true.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2011, 11:57:41 AM »
Now who said, "Whenever someone corrects my spelling and resorts to personal attacks I always sit back, smile, and count a win for me ... "?
Well, it probably wasn't you...
Wait, no... This is a trick, isn't it? For some reason you want me to call you a hypocrite... I will NOT... wait, I just did.
Damn it!
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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squevil

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2011, 09:55:20 PM »
the rowing boat will have 2 modes:

hard - north hemiplane

extreme workout - south hemiplane

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Tausami

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Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2011, 10:01:11 PM »
The Tour de France Training Bike ( http://www.fitnessexperts.com/proform-tour-de-france-bike/?gclid=CP6ovenMqK0CFQmd7QodVnOInA ) is inaccurate, as it uses demonstrably false GoogleMaps to calculate its route. I think I am going to submit an idea for the Flat Earth Rowing Boat which uses Flat Earth maps to simulate boating trips. It would be educational and healthy.  I'll keep you guys posted.
I suspect that you've confused "demonstratively false" with "limited in precision", again.

I suspect that you've confused 'precision' with 'accuracy', again.

Re: Don't Waste Your Money On The Tour de France Training Bike
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2012, 12:53:49 AM »
The Tour de France Training Bike ( http://www.fitnessexperts.com/proform-tour-de-france-bike/?gclid=CP6ovenMqK0CFQmd7QodVnOInA ) is inaccurate, as it uses demonstrably false GoogleMaps to calculate its route. I think I am going to submit an idea for the Flat Earth Rowing Boat which uses Flat Earth maps to simulate boating trips. It would be educational and healthy.  I'll keep you guys posted.
I suspect that you've confused "demonstratively false" with "limited in precision", again.

I suspect that you've confused 'precision' with 'accuracy', again.
I don't see how. I meant that the photographs do not contain enough information to resolve the images to degree demanded by FEers. I think that's wanting for precision. I understand that FEers often expect that there is a 'right value' to everything, but Science doesn't agree. With seasonal, daily, and even hourly changes (lighting, seasonal foliage, incidental objects, etc) there simply is no way a place has the same look, so there is no 'right value'. If I'm wrong, please tell me more. Thanks. Reference: Wikipedia.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards