Maps?

Quote from: ClockTower on February 07, 2012, 05:55:50 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 05:23:05 PM

The cultural meme "Flat Earther" is in reference to members of this society, specifically.

Nope.

Reference: The Complete Idiot's Guide to Memes, By John Gunders, Damon Brown, John Gunders, Ph.D.

Actually, that's a reference to us.

Not specifically, unless you mean that you hold disproved beliefs.

You could take every single one of these people into orbit around the earth, and they'd still say it was a nasa cover up or something,

You could take every single one of these people into orbit around the earth, and they'd still say it was a nasa cover up or something,

Most do not believe the earth is flat, they just enjoy when someone like iWitness comes on and gets fooled.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 05:56:55 PM

Quote from: ClockTower on February 07, 2012, 05:55:50 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 05:23:05 PM

The cultural meme "Flat Earther" is in reference to members of this society, specifically.

Nope.

Reference: The Complete Idiot's Guide to Memes, By John Gunders, Damon Brown, John Gunders, Ph.D.

Actually, that's a reference to us.

Not specifically, unless you mean that you hold disproved beliefs.

It's a reference to how people view the Flat Earth Society. The FES believes in a flat earth, contrary to public opinion and media hype.

"Flat Earther" isn't in reference to ancient Egyptians who believed in a flat earth in times when it was accepted. It's clearly referencing us, who believe it in times when it is not accepted.

You could take every single one of these people into orbit around the earth, and they'd still say it was a nasa cover up or something,

I actually came across a thread discussing this. The claims were made that all the windows would actually be monitor screens showing a computer simulation of the outside of the "spacecraft", with simulated g forces and whatnot to fool the passenger into believing they were actually taking off. I think the thread was titled space tourism..or something like that. It went on for quite some time, and some of the claims were quite outrageous, even going so far as to suggest if one were to disrupt the monitors with a magnet or a hammer, then the conspiracy would kill not just you, but every one on board!

Quote from: zarg on February 07, 2012, 05:50:42 PM

I have, and this:

http://i.imgur.com/FHX6e.jpg

is not the same map at all.

Yes it is. With the exception of Australia and New Zealand it's nearly exactly the same.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that it's more likely that the UN stole this to produce this than it is likely that the FES stole this to produce this. Need I remind you what you said?

Has it occurred to you that FES was in existence about 100 years before the UN was formed, and it's more likely that the UN stole that map from us?

You're not backpedaling again, are you?

Quote from: Aytron on February 07, 2012, 06:02:57 PM

You could take every single one of these people into orbit around the earth, and they'd still say it was a nasa cover up or something,

I actually came across a thread discussing this. The claims were made that all the windows would actually be monitor screens showing a computer simulation of the outside of the "spacecraft", with simulated g forces and whatnot to fool the passenger into believing they were actually taking off. I think the thread was titled space tourism..or something like that. It went on for quite some time, and some of the claims were quite outrageous, even going so far as to suggest if one were to disrupt the monitors with a magnet or a hammer, then the conspiracy would kill not just you, but every one on board!

Actually, "space tourism" flights will just take you to the edge of space and come back down again. No trickery necessary. You will see some slight curvature to the horizon because at such great heights you are looking down at a circle.

You will see a scene similar to those high altitude balloons which touch the edge of space.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that it's more likely that the UN stole this to produce this than it is likely that the FES stole this to produce this.

Those are all versions of the FE map. We came up with the design, not the UN, and not some guy in the 1970's. There have been intermittent maps we've made between Rowbotham's time and the creation of the UN, which has Australia and New Zealand in proper proportions. See this one we made in the 1930's for instance, published in Modern Mechanics, 1931.

sometimes its a circle*
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52745.0

sometimes its a circle*
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52745.0

NASA modifies its imagery and gives the horizon more curvature to make it seems as if the craft is higher than it really is.

Unmodified, the images from orbit would look like the MIT balloon picture I linked above.

Actually, "space tourism" flights will just take you to the edge of space and come back down again. No trickery necessary. You will see some slight curvature to the horizon because at such great heights you are looking down at a circle.

You will see a scene similar to those high altitude balloons which touch the edge of space.

You should tell that to the people claiming the Conspiracy would murder passengers.

thats taken in the day time... besides i have also disproven spotlight sun theory without nasa's help. didnt see you defending your great book there either

Quote from: ClockTower on February 07, 2012, 06:00:12 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 05:56:55 PM

Quote from: ClockTower on February 07, 2012, 05:55:50 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 05:23:05 PM

The cultural meme "Flat Earther" is in reference to members of this society, specifically.

Nope.

Reference: The Complete Idiot's Guide to Memes, By John Gunders, Damon Brown, John Gunders, Ph.D.

Actually, that's a reference to us.

Not specifically, unless you mean that you hold disproved beliefs.

It's a reference to how people view the Flat Earth Society. The FES believes in a flat earth, contrary to public opinion and media hype.

"Flat Earther" isn't in reference to ancient Egyptians who believed in a flat earth in times when it was accepted. It's clearly referencing us, who believe it in times when it is not accepted.

You really should read the book if you can't manage to understand that paragraph. Put your ego in your pocket. Flat Earther meme is about anyone, not just you, holding any outdated or disproved belief, not just FET.

Tom, you dodged my question. Are you saying that it's more likely that the UN stole this to produce this than it is likely that the FES stole this to produce this? Yes or no.

We came up with the design, not the UN

Really? You came up with the formula which was used to generate the map that's in your FAQ and on UN's flag? Please show us the documentation supporting this claim.

Quote from: squevil on February 07, 2012, 06:27:52 PM

sometimes its a circle*
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52745.0

NASA modifies its imagery and gives the horizon more curvature to make it seems as if the craft is higher than it really is.

Unmodified, the images from orbit would look like the MIT balloon picture I linked above.

Tom, explain my avatar.  What causes the circle of darkness?

Those are all versions of the FE map. We came up with the design, not the UN, and not some guy in the 1970's. There have been intermittent maps we've made between Rowbotham's time and the creation of the UN, which has Australia and New Zealand in proper proportions. See this one we made in the 1930's for instance, published in Modern Mechanics, 1931.

So are any of those maps correct?

he isnt going to answer is he. its always the same. make some claims, get bombarded with facts that disprove such claims and drop out. we are used to the routine now

[You really should read the book if you can't manage to understand that paragraph. Put your ego in your pocket. Flat Earther meme is about anyone, not just you, holding any outdated or disproved belief, not just FET.

Absolutely incorrect. Quite obviously, calling someone a Flat Earther is in reference to the Flat Earth Society, who holds that the earth is flat in times when it is not accepted.

Quote from: ClockTower on February 07, 2012, 06:56:46 PM

[You really should read the book if you can't manage to understand that paragraph. Put your ego in your pocket. Flat Earther meme is about anyone, not just you, holding any outdated or disproved belief, not just FET.

Absolutely incorrect. Quite obviously, calling someone a Flat Earther is in reference to the Flat Earth Society, who holds that the earth is flat in times when it is not accepted.

Absolutely correct.



Please refer to the definition of metaphor:

A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in "a sea of troubles"

I do know what a metaphor is. It's a comparison. In this case, the term "Flat Earther" is being used to compare other people to us.

Just like if I said "you're so Christian." Obviously I am referencing Christians, even if I am using it as a metaphor to describe their traits.

Please cease posting.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 06:25:21 PM

Those are all versions of the FE map. We came up with the design, not the UN, and not some guy in the 1970's. There have been intermittent maps we've made between Rowbotham's time and the creation of the UN, which has Australia and New Zealand in proper proportions. See this one we made in the 1930's for instance, published in Modern Mechanics, 1931.

So are any of those maps correct?

Every single version of the FE map has been disproved by great circle navigation using INS.

Tom, you dodged my question. Are you saying that it's more likely that the UN stole this to produce this than it is likely that the FES stole this to produce this? Yes or no.

All of those originate from the Flat Earth maps in the 1800's.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 06:25:21 PM

We came up with the design, not the UN

Really? You came up with the formula which was used to generate the map that's in your FAQ and on UN's flag? Please show us the documentation supporting this claim.

Why would I have to show that I came up with a formula when I never claimed anything of the sort?

The Flat Earth Society came up with that map, not the UN.

Tom, explain my avatar.  What causes the circle of darkness?

It's either a wide angle lens or barrel distortion.

People often post images claiming that they can see curvature at sea level, when it is really just an effect of the lens.

In those other images from that same balloon at its apex, the horizon looks relatively flat, if not a little concave.

Quote from: zarg on February 07, 2012, 06:59:50 PM

Tom, you dodged my question. Are you saying that it's more likely that the UN stole this to produce this than it is likely that the FES stole this to produce this? Yes or no.

All of those originate from the Flat Earth maps in the 1800's.

Quote

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 07, 2012, 06:25:21 PM

We came up with the design, not the UN

Really? You came up with the formula which was used to generate the map that's in your FAQ and on UN's flag? Please show us the documentation supporting this claim.

Why would I have to show that I came up with a formula when I never claimed anything of the sort?

The Flat Earth Society came up with that map, not the UN.

Quote

Tom, explain my avatar.  What causes the circle of darkness?

Either a wide angle lens or barrel distortion.

Every single version of the FE map has been disproved by great circle navigation using INS.

Just like if I said "you're so Christian." Obviously I am referencing Christians, even if I am using it as a metaphor to describe their traits.

You are using the word "christian" as an adjective, not a noun; therefore you are not referring directly to people who believe in Jesus, only the stereotypical image that has been bestowed upon them by others.

"He's a bit of a flat earther when it comes to global warming" is not inviting you to check with the FES about their views on global warming.

Metaphors cannot possible refer to their literal meaning.  That's why they're metaphors !

You are using the word "christian" as an adjective, not a noun; therefore you are not referring directly to people who believe in Jesus, only the stereotypical image that has been bestowed upon them by others.

It's absolutely a reference to Christians to say to someone "you're so Christian." Christians are the stem of the metaphor, and very obviously have something to do with it.

"He's a bit of a flat earther when it comes to global warming" is not inviting you to check with the FES about their views on global warming.

Calling someone a Flat Earther is making a direct comparison to us, members of the Flat Earth Society, who have for over 150 years believed in a Flat Earth contrary to popular opinion and media hype. We're the stem of the comparison, quite obviously, because you're calling someone a Flat Earther as a metaphor.

It was argued that "Flat Earther" had nothing to do with the FES. This is incorrect. We are responsible for the very root of that phrase, not some unknown Flat Earth group who has held contrarian beliefs in the face of adversity.

The phrase "Flat Earther" isn't in reference to the Ancient Egyptians and other ancient societies who believed in a Flat Earth in times of acceptance. The metaphor is being used to describe someone who holds beliefs which the public no longer holds true. We're the only group of FE'ers who have believed in an FE in modern times. The metaphor is indisputably referencing us.

Quote

Really? You came up with the formula which was used to generate the map that's in your FAQ and on UN's flag? Please show us the documentation supporting this claim.

Why would I have to show that I came up with a formula when I never claimed anything of the sort?

Because that map is a direct result of the formula. It's not traced or adapted from a drawing, it's constructed mathematically by applying a distortion formula to a globe. Therefore, when you claim that they based it off of your "design", you must be claiming at least one of the following:

• You created the globe.
• You created the distortion formula.

If you can't back up either of these, then you're lying.

It's either a wide angle lens or barrel distortion.

Now that you've finally chosen to address this, let's please try to keep it to the original thread, where I've already responded to this.

Quote from: Moon squirter

You are using the word "christian" as an adjective, not a noun; therefore you are not referring directly to people who believe in Jesus, only the stereotypical image that has been bestowed upon them by others.

It's absolutely a reference to Christians to say to someone "you're so Christian." Christians are the stem of the metaphor, and very obviously have something to do with it.

How can it be "absolutely a reference  to Christians", when you then vaguely say that christians "have something to do with it"?  The reference is to the stereotypical image of christians, which may or may not be true.

Quote

"He's a bit of a flat earther when it comes to global warming" is not inviting you to check with the FES about their views on global warming.

Calling someone a Flat Earther is making a direct comparison to us...

No it's not, by any stretch of the over-active imagination.  The person who is subject to that metaphor probably have nothing in common with the FES, nor will the FES have much in common with the person's views.  Are you getting it now?

Because that map is a direct result of the formula. It's not traced or adapted from a drawing, it's constructed mathematically by applying a distortion formula to a globe. Therefore, when you claim that they based it off of your "design", you must be claiming at least one of the following:

• You created the globe.
• You created the distortion formula.

If you can't back up either of these, then you're lying.

I didn't make any claims about a formula. If someone made a formula for turning a Mercator map into our Northern Azimuthal map, then they made a formula to do that. It's still our map. We're the ones who published and popularized it.

How can it be "absolutely a reference  to Christians", when you then vaguely say that christians "have something to do with it"?  The reference is to the stereotypical image of christians, which may or may not be true.

It's a reference to Christians because you called someone Christian. It's fairly clear that you are referencing Christians when you say "you're so Christian." 

Quote from: Tom Bishop on February 09, 2012, 09:00:05 AM

Quote

"He's a bit of a flat earther when it comes to global warming" is not inviting you to check with the FES about their views on global warming.

Calling someone a Flat Earther is making a direct comparison to us...

No it's not, by any stretch of the over-active imagination.  The person who is subject to that metaphor probably have nothing in common with the FES, nor will the FES have much in common with the person's views.  Are you getting it now?

"Flat Earther" is a direct comparison to the Flat Earth Society's contrarian beliefs. I know it's a COMPARISON, and that the person who is subject to the metaphor is skeptical of Global Warming or whatever.

The point is that the Flat Earth Society is the direct root of the term Flat Earther. It's very, very obvious. Please cease debating. The fact that the FES is responsible for the term Flat Earther is overwhelmingly clear. It's over. Lick your wounds elsewhere.

Quote

Because that map is a direct result of the formula. It's not traced or adapted from a drawing, it's constructed mathematically by applying a distortion formula to a globe. Therefore, when you claim that they based it off of your "design", you must be claiming at least one of the following:

• You created the globe.
• You created the distortion formula.

If you can't back up either of these, then you're lying.

I didn't make any claims about a formula. If someone made a formula for turning a Mercator map into our Northern Azimuthal map, then they made a formula to do that. It's still our map. We're the ones who published and popularized it.

And I'm the one who disproved it via INS great circle navigation. 

Quote

Because that map is a direct result of the formula. It's not traced or adapted from a drawing, it's constructed mathematically by applying a distortion formula to a globe. Therefore, when you claim that they based it off of your "design", you must be claiming at least one of the following:

• You created the globe.
• You created the distortion formula.

If you can't back up either of these, then you're lying.

I didn't make any claims about a formula. If someone made a formula for turning a Mercator map into our Northern Azimuthal map, then they made a formula to do that. It's still our map. We're the ones who published and popularized it.

Tom, this is the result of applying that formula to a globe:



And this is the map that you claim the FES "designed":



You're telling me this is a coincidence?

Tom, this is the result of applying that formula to a globe:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection_SW.jpg/600px-Azimuthal_equidistant_projection_SW.jpg

And this is the map that you claim the FES "designed":

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/Persistenxe/Flat_earth-1.png

You're telling me this is a coincidence?

I can make a mathematical formula to draw swastikas on graphic calculators. It doesn't mean that I invented the swastika.

A Mercator map can be turned into a Northern Azimuthal map, and it doesn't matter. It's our map. We came up with it. We published it. We popularized it. End of story. I'm right on the "Flat Earther" subject, and I'm right on this one. My time here is done.