Gravity, UA, and why they can't get along.

And likewise, there is plenty of evidence that space agencies are doing exactly what they say they're doing.

When you have to imagine a conspiracy that spans centuries, secretly controls the entire word, and whose primary goal is to mess with people for the lolz, I think your reasoning has gotten lost along the way.

Who said anything about the conspiracy lasting centuries or being for the purpose of faking the shape of the earth? I've said numerous times that the conspiracy was a space travel conspiracy and had nothing to do with hiding the earth's shape.

People don't even bother defending the evidence against the Chinese Space Agency anymore, as it has been overwhelmingly demonstrated that it is a hoax.

I personally consider the evidence against NASA to be particularly damning.

It's not out of thin air. There is plenty of evidence that the space agencies are faking things.

There is also a lot of evidence that they are not faking things.  In addition all of the "evidence" that you have posted is usually easily refutable, and does not suggest that the entire space program is a sham.  At best certain missions could have been faked, and this is at best, i doubt any NASA mission was faked.  All of the Apollo mission "evidence" has been widely refuted.  There is nothing to suggest that the ISS is a sham except your belief that prior missions were shams and therefore the ISS could be a sham as well.

Face it Tom, you believe the earth is flat (or pretend to, i'm not convinced either way, because a troll with 13000 posts is a sad concept to ponder) and therefore needed a way to discredit the space program, and therefore you searched out conspiracy theories related to Space agencies.  If you really look at the evidence its far from convincing, unless there is something more substantial than lunar rovers without tracks, the lunar lander not looking like what you think it should look like, or the flag waving in the vacuum of space, your going to have a hard time convincing me and others that the entire NASA program is a sham.

In reality the most convincing evidence of a NASA sham would be the earth being flat, but then every astronomer and geologist that i know seems to feel that the earth is round, and not because NASA tells them its round, but because all of the evidence suggests this.

If you really look at the evidence its far from convincing

Go through each and every image in this link:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

There are an overwhelming number of items against Apollo which suggests that it is a hoax. Maybe if there were only a few unexplained things it would be fine, not hundreds.

After a while the number of extraordinary explanations needed to explain the events becomes absurd to the point of disillusionment.

Quote from: jraffield1 on December 16, 2011, 01:07:27 AM

And likewise, there is plenty of evidence that space agencies are doing exactly what they say they're doing.

When you have to imagine a conspiracy that spans centuries, secretly controls the entire word, and whose primary goal is to mess with people for the lolz, I think your reasoning has gotten lost along the way.

Who said anything about the conspiracy lasting centuries or being for the purpose of faking the shape of the earth? I've said numerous times that the conspiracy was a space travel conspiracy and had nothing to do with hiding the earth's shape.

People don't even bother defending the evidence against the Chinese Space Agency anymore, as it has been overwhelmingly demonstrated that it is a hoax.

I personally consider the evidence against NASA to be particularly damning.

I do agree that most, if not all, of the recent Chinese space missions were faked. However, I think the evidence for NASA's landing on the moon and space travel in general outweighs any conspiracy, no matter how evil or super-powered.

http://www.clavius.org/

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on December 16, 2011, 01:15:14 AM

If you really look at the evidence its far from convincing

Go through each and every image in this link:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html

There are an overwhelming number of items against Apollo which suggests that it is a hoax. Maybe if there were only a few unexplained things it would be fine, not hundreds.

I've seen most of these photos, in my theory of knowledge class we learned how to watch out for bad journalism, and many of these photos were prime examples.  There are explanations for many of these situations, they only seem damning if you do not understand the reasons behind why they seem counter intuitive.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 16, 2011, 01:08:28 AM

Quote from: jraffield1 on December 16, 2011, 01:07:27 AM

And likewise, there is plenty of evidence that space agencies are doing exactly what they say they're doing.

When you have to imagine a conspiracy that spans centuries, secretly controls the entire word, and whose primary goal is to mess with people for the lolz, I think your reasoning has gotten lost along the way.

Who said anything about the conspiracy lasting centuries or being for the purpose of faking the shape of the earth? I've said numerous times that the conspiracy was a space travel conspiracy and had nothing to do with hiding the earth's shape.

People don't even bother defending the evidence against the Chinese Space Agency anymore, as it has been overwhelmingly demonstrated that it is a hoax.

I personally consider the evidence against NASA to be particularly damning.

I do agree that most, if not all, of the recent Chinese space missions were faked. However, I think the evidence for NASA's landing on the moon and space travel in general outweighs any conspiracy, no matter how evil or super-powered.

http://www.clavius.org/

Clavius is a NASA-funded site. The authors even admit that it was written by "space industry professionals".

I don't know why RE'ers link to that site. The whole site is just an attempt to explain everything away with an endless series of illusions.

When we take pictures here on earth of an event there aren't hundreds of illusions and inconsistencies across 90% of photos.

I've seen most of these photos, in my theory of knowledge class we learned how to watch out for bad journalism, and many of these photos were prime examples.  There are explanations for many of these situations, they only seem damning if you do not understand the reasons behind why they seem counter intuitive.

According to Clavius there are dozens of illusions everywhere you look. Inconsistencies, questionable scenes, and things that look like stage lights shouldn't be questioned. It can all be chalked up to "an illusion did it."

It can all be chalked up to "an illusion did it."

Seems reasonable to me.

Illusions have been observed to exist, a super conspiracy however has not. Until you prove a conspiracy exists, or that illusions don't exist, then you don't really have much of a case. 

Quote from: jraffield1 on December 16, 2011, 01:21:35 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on December 16, 2011, 01:08:28 AM

Quote from: jraffield1 on December 16, 2011, 01:07:27 AM

And likewise, there is plenty of evidence that space agencies are doing exactly what they say they're doing.

When you have to imagine a conspiracy that spans centuries, secretly controls the entire word, and whose primary goal is to mess with people for the lolz, I think your reasoning has gotten lost along the way.

Who said anything about the conspiracy lasting centuries or being for the purpose of faking the shape of the earth? I've said numerous times that the conspiracy was a space travel conspiracy and had nothing to do with hiding the earth's shape.

People don't even bother defending the evidence against the Chinese Space Agency anymore, as it has been overwhelmingly demonstrated that it is a hoax.

I personally consider the evidence against NASA to be particularly damning.

I do agree that most, if not all, of the recent Chinese space missions were faked. However, I think the evidence for NASA's landing on the moon and space travel in general outweighs any conspiracy, no matter how evil or super-powered.

http://www.clavius.org/

Clavius is a NASA-funded site. The authors even admit that it was written by "space industry professionals".

I don't know why RE'ers link to that site. The whole site is just an attempt to explain everything away with an endless supply of extraordinary illusions.

When we take pictures here on earth of an event there aren't hundreds of illusions and inconsistencies across 90% of photos.

Quote from: OrbisNonSufficit on December 16, 2011, 01:22:49 AM

I've seen most of these photos, in my theory of knowledge class we learned how to watch out for bad journalism, and many of these photos were prime examples.  There are explanations for many of these situations, they only seem damning if you do not understand the reasons behind why they seem counter intuitive.

According to Clavius there are dozens of illusions everywhere you look. Inconsistencies, questionable scenes, and things that look like stage lights shouldn't be questioned. It can all be chalked up to "an illusion did it."

No they have legitimate explanations.  Not to mention it seems to me that the biggest illusion on this site has nothing to do with the apollo missions but everything to do with the sun not shrinking as it moves away from your position on the earth.  So before we get into illusions lets all just remember that FE is full of them.

I don't agree with that line of reasoning. First, why should I believe that the conspiracist's expectation is reasonable or correct? Almost all of them are just asserted as if they were self-evident fact, with no argument or computation to support them. And a lot of them are based on an incomplete understanding of illumination, perspective, geometry, and photography. If the expectation is wrong, then violating the expectation isn't a big deal.

Like i said earlier, these expectations seem intuitive, because they are founded in an inaccurate understanding of what should be represented.  Once things are explained they make sense. 

I trust my highly educated astronomy professors more than random conspirators, why don't you?  Because you trust a 19th century Zetetecist more than 20th century scientists.

Quote

Please provide references for your claims. Where in Robotham's works is it ever stated that the conclusion that the Earth is flat should or could be modified?

Where did he state that it couldn't?

1) Asked and answered. See http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52095.msg1279661#msg1279661.
2) That's an Ad ignorantiam fallacy.

Obviously if he is debating the subject in the open and giving people the chance to challenge it in public debates he is open to the idea that he might be wrong. Otherwise he would just give sermons like scientologists and priests.

False. Debate can be used to persuade.

The purpose is to persuade the audience that your insight on the topic is the correct way to analyze the topic.

Read more: Debate Rules & Techniques | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8736679_debate-rules-techniques.html#ixzz1ggwKWOoR

According to Clavius there are dozens of illusions everywhere you look. Inconsistencies, questionable scenes, and things that look like stage lights shouldn't be questioned. It can all be chalked up to "an illusion did it."

Tom, on the moon there's, no sense of scale, dark sky but a bright ground, no stars because of camera exposure settings, analogue film artefacts which have been touched up post-process, equipment people have seen before that resemble everyday objects.

To the "imaginative" person, that sounds like a good recipe for illusion.

there is no conspiracy. disc earth thoery exists just fine without it.

there is no conspiracy. disc earth thoery exists just fine without it.

Disc earth is not a theory, it's a guess. There is zero physical evidence suggesting flat earth, therefore it isn't a THEORY.

there is no conspiracy. disc earth thoery exists just fine without it.

Can you provide a detailed, coherent description of this "disc earth theory" to which you refer?

there is no conspiracy. disc earth thoery exists just fine without it.

How many times do we have to say this: if there's no conspiracy, then space flight is possible, then the Earth has been countlessly proven round.

So FE => Conspiracy.

Quote from: iwanttobelieve on December 16, 2011, 09:50:18 AM

there is no conspiracy. disc earth thoery exists just fine without it.

Can you provide a detailed, coherent description of this "disc earth theory" to which you refer?

He cannot, he made that up just like the Wiki and the Faq are made up out of thin air and added to when convenient to support the scam.

Quote from: iwanttobelieve on December 16, 2011, 09:50:18 AM

there is no conspiracy. disc earth thoery exists just fine without it.

Disc earth is not a theory, it's a guess. There is zero physical evidence suggesting flat earth, therefore it isn't a THEORY.

There is zero compass evidence that shows all your RET takes aren't standing perfectly still somewhere, with imobily compass needle showing it to be somewhere here on earth, in a hangar.

If there were no constructions of any kind, similar to hangars, I would believe that could only have been "the real deal". If there was a compass on it, proving the camera was actually moving with the whole thing, because the compass needle should go berserk during those so called flights.

As they do not, they may even be in circular trajectory pods in closed laboratories, that increase G pressure (or Magnetism from above, in my theory) by decreasing the anti-magnetism resistance of the object moving faster and faster.

Since you have no real compass there to show it's not doing a 360 every 10 seconds or so, or even faster, as the G speed increases inside the pod, congratulations.

Because a simple Amusement Park's distraction has just proven you to be a fraud.

You and all your RET fakes are so feeble, you fear the common compass. And placing it inside all your so called "evidence", for all to measure your exact trajectory with the magnetic field of iron.

Or do RET people not know how to use a compass .... ?

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 16, 2011, 10:23:09 AM

Quote from: iwanttobelieve on December 16, 2011, 09:50:18 AM

there is no conspiracy. disc earth thoery exists just fine without it.

Disc earth is not a theory, it's a guess. There is zero physical evidence suggesting flat earth, therefore it isn't a THEORY.

There is zero compass evidence that shows all your RET takes aren't standing perfectly still somewhere, with imobily compass needle showing it to be somewhere here on earth, in a hangar.

If there were no constructions of any kind, similar to hangars, I would believe that could only have been "the real deal". If there was a compass on it, proving the camera was actually moving with the whole thing, because the compass needle should go berserk during those so called flights.

As they do not, they may even be in circular trajectory pods in closed laboratories, that increase G pressure (or Magnetism from above, in my theory) by decreasing the anti-magnetism resistance of the object moving faster and faster.

Since you have no real compass there to show it's not doing a 360 every 10 seconds or so, or even faster, as the G speed increases inside the pod, congratulations.

Because a simple Amusement Park's distraction has just proven you to be a fraud.

You and all your RET fakes are so feeble, you fear the common compass. And placing it inside all your so called "evidence", for all to measure your exact trajectory with the magnetic field of iron.

Or do RET people not know how to use a compass .... ?

Go back to the hospital you escaped from looney, unless of course you just haven't been checked in yet. Last time I looked your dumb "theory" had been shot down 1000000000000 times.

Illusions have been observed to exist, a super conspiracy however has not. Until you prove a conspiracy exists, or that illusions don't exist, then you don't really have much of a case. 

Can you prove tunnels exist?

Go ahead, and contribute to digging the World Tunnel, right now. All of your RET cultists are working for it, as we speak !!

Once you dig in a straight direction no matter the angle, in the earth's crust, you will end up digging up through the earth's surface, on another side of the earth's crust.

And once you will have dug yourselves up, through the other side of your Liniar Tunnel, you will have proven RET for ever.

Then you can humiliate me by posting pictures and videos of the Liniar Tunnel, straight through the earth, and out the opposite side.

So get digging !!

Quote from: jraffield1 on December 16, 2011, 01:50:50 AM

Illusions have been observed to exist, a super conspiracy however has not. Until you prove a conspiracy exists, or that illusions don't exist, then you don't really have much of a case. 

Can you prove tunnels exist?

So get digging !!

You've been exposed as a sock puppet, come up with a better scam dude. You're utterly boring.

You've been exposed as a sock puppet, come up with a better scam dude. You're utterly boring.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52392.0

Pointing you to that thread, am I?

Risking my life, by putting my life on the line to prove FET is real, and that I believe in FET, is enough.

Again, contact your embassy, contact the news, I don't care.

Go international, all you wish. If you can prove publically the Earth isn't flat, those papers you can come up with, and I will sign, will ensure I am detained and publically executed in any RET beliving country.

And no one can stop my execution, even if they wanted to. Since I signed those myself, again publically. With the whole world as witnesses.

So that would ensure, if you idiots can prove RET is true, or FET is false, I get to die for believing in FET.

Which means I can be nothing else but a real FET believer. I can't even be a proper martyr as dying is impossible, since the Earth is Flat.

And you know this. You're just avoiding legal procedure, because you know my sacrifice will easily prove to everyone the Earth is Flat.

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 30, 2011, 11:59:18 AM

You've been exposed as a sock puppet, come up with a better scam dude. You're utterly boring.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52392.0

Pointing you to that thread, am I?

Risking my life, by putting my life on the line to prove FET is real, and that I believe in FET, is enough.

Again, contact your embassy, contact the news, I don't care.

Go international, all you wish. If you can prove publically the Earth isn't flat, those papers you can come up with, and I will sign, will ensure I am detained and publically executed in any RET beliving country.

And no one can stop my execution, even if they wanted to. Since I signed those myself, again publically. With the whole world as witnesses.

So that would ensure, if you idiots can prove RET is true, or FET is false, I get to die for believing in FET.

Which means I can be nothing else but a real FET believer. I can't even be a proper martyr as dying is impossible, since the Earth is Flat.

And you know this. You're just avoiding legal procedure, because you know my sacrifice will easily prove to everyone the Earth is Flat.

How you expect us to sue you without your providing your personal details, like country of residence, of citizenship, name, address, etc.?

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 30, 2011, 11:59:18 AM

You've been exposed as a sock puppet, come up with a better scam dude. You're utterly boring.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52392.0

Pointing you to that thread, am I?

Risking my life, by putting my life on the line to prove FET is real, and that I believe in FET, is enough.

Again, contact your embassy, contact the news, I don't care.

Go international, all you wish. If you can prove publically the Earth isn't flat, those papers you can come up with, and I will sign, will ensure I am detained and publically executed in any RET beliving country.

And no one can stop my execution, even if they wanted to. Since I signed those myself, again publically. With the whole world as witnesses.

So that would ensure, if you idiots can prove RET is true, or FET is false, I get to die for believing in FET.

Which means I can be nothing else but a real FET believer. I can't even be a proper martyr as dying is impossible, since the Earth is Flat.

And you know this. You're just avoiding legal procedure, because you know my sacrifice will easily prove to everyone the Earth is Flat.

Many people have died for silly reasons, why would your death be so important?

Pardon me if I'm inserting myself into the conversation here, but about the two frames of references...

From an observer that is accelerating upwards, being pushed by a flat Earth, time will always appear to move forward at normal speed.  It's only from the outside that general relativity would make them never hit the speed of light.  What you FEers don't seem to realize is this model would limit the existence of the Earth to about a year.

So, if the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s then after 30,591,067.1 seconds, or 0.969393125 years, (a year, basically) you will have hit the speed of light.  Besides asking where the infinite energy required to reach that speed comes from, you must know that if the Earth acceleration theory for gravity were true, after a little less than a year an infinite amount of time would pass on the outside, which breaks the universe.

So, if no one was here on Earth to observe it accelerating on the inside, the theory would be valid, since no one would ever survive an infinite amount of time to see it reach the speed of light.  But since we are here watching this theoretical disk accelerate, the fact that the planet has been around for millions of years, and humans have observed it for thousands, and that we ourselves have existed for more than a year, disproves the acceleration theory altogether.  Does this make sense?

You flat Earthers need to come up with another explanation if I am right.

Pardon me if I'm inserting myself into the conversation here, but about the two frames of references...

From an observer that is accelerating upwards, being pushed by a flat Earth, time will always appear to move forward at normal speed.  It's only from the outside that general relativity would make them never hit the speed of light.  What you FEers don't seem to realize is this model would limit the existence of the Earth to about a year.

So, if the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s then after 30,591,067.1 seconds, or 0.969393125 years, (a year, basically) you will have hit the speed of light.  Besides asking where the infinite energy required to reach that speed comes from, you must know that if the Earth acceleration theory for gravity were true, after a little less than a year an infinite amount of time would pass on the outside, which breaks the universe.

So, if no one was here on Earth to observe it accelerating on the inside, the theory would be valid, since no one would ever survive an infinite amount of time to see it reach the speed of light.  But since we are here watching this theoretical disk accelerate, the fact that the planet has been around for millions of years, and humans have observed it for thousands, and that we ourselves have existed for more than a year, disproves the acceleration theory altogether.  Does this make sense?

You flat Earthers need to come up with another explanation if I am right.

Sorry, but no. From the FoR of the outside (not-accelerated) view, the FE would never reach c, no matter what (relativistic) acceleration is applied. Perhaps you forgot the Lorenz Factor when adding velocities.

Reference: Wikipedia.