Any analyses on this video from the ISS?

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2011, 08:41:45 PM »
Well, considering the amount of drag there is in high-Earth orbit, not very much at all, they wouldn't have to constantly fire their thrusters, would they? They'd only need to fire them for a specific "burn period" to get the ISS to rotate at a "Geo-synchronous" rate (I put "Geo-synchronous" in quotes because I'm not sure if that's the right term) and then only fire them occasionally afterwards for maintenance of their rotation.

RE special pleading. You clearly know nothing about the orbit of the ISS.

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Rushy

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2011, 08:42:52 PM »
Well, considering the amount of drag there is in high-Earth orbit, not very much at all, they wouldn't have to constantly fire their thrusters, would they? They'd only need to fire them for a specific "burn period" to get the ISS to rotate at a "Geo-synchronous" rate (I put "Geo-synchronous" in quotes because I'm not sure if that's the right term) and then only fire them occasionally afterwards for maintenance of their rotation.

RE special pleading. You clearly know nothing about the orbit of the ISS.

You clearly have no idea what special pleading is.

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2011, 08:43:48 PM »
Well, considering the amount of drag there is in high-Earth orbit, not very much at all, they wouldn't have to constantly fire their thrusters, would they? They'd only need to fire them for a specific "burn period" to get the ISS to rotate at a "Geo-synchronous" rate (I put "Geo-synchronous" in quotes because I'm not sure if that's the right term) and then only fire them occasionally afterwards for maintenance of their rotation.

RE special pleading. You clearly know nothing about the orbit of the ISS.

You clearly have no idea what special pleading is.

You're just saying that to hide the fact that you know I'm right.

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Rushy

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2011, 08:45:47 PM »
Well, considering the amount of drag there is in high-Earth orbit, not very much at all, they wouldn't have to constantly fire their thrusters, would they? They'd only need to fire them for a specific "burn period" to get the ISS to rotate at a "Geo-synchronous" rate (I put "Geo-synchronous" in quotes because I'm not sure if that's the right term) and then only fire them occasionally afterwards for maintenance of their rotation.

RE special pleading. You clearly know nothing about the orbit of the ISS.

You clearly have no idea what special pleading is.

You're just saying that to hide the fact that you know I'm right.

Continuing on like this after you clearly can't debate the topic anymore does nothing but make people not take you seriously. Soon the only person willing to argue with you will be ClockTower.

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2011, 08:54:18 PM »
Continuing on like this after you clearly can't debate the topic anymore does nothing but make people not take you seriously. Soon the only person willing to argue with you will be ClockTower.

Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.

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Rushy

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2011, 09:00:16 PM »
The time lapse is not long enough to show any altitude loss due to orbit. Are you referring to the actual angle orientation of the camera compared to the earth?

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2011, 11:15:11 PM »
Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2011, 08:39:41 AM »
The time lapse is not long enough to show any altitude loss due to orbit. Are you referring to the actual angle orientation of the camera compared to the earth?

Yes, the angle is what I was referring to. I never mentioned anything about altitude. Maybe you misread when I said "attitude?"

Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?

1) The ISS has a periapsis of 376 km an an apoapsis of 398 km. It is approximately circular. Either way, that doesn’t affect its attitude.

2) Actually, yes it does keep the same orientation with the earth at all times. This might not be relevant to this discussion, but still an interesting point of information.

3) The location of the horizon does not change, and you can see parts of the ISS in the picture. Therefore you have enough information to see that the angle does not change. There is no need to measure the angle, because it’s relative angle that we are worried about. That is, a change in angle between the previous and the current. It also doesn’t matter if the camera was held by hand or not since you can see both the horizon and part of the ISS in all frames.

4) It starts next to Canada and ends just as Antarctica enters view. Probably between a third and a half, definitely not more than a half. We're probably talking about 35-40 minutes.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 08:47:21 AM by NASA_Lies »

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2011, 08:42:36 AM »
There are many dubious ISS videos on youtube.

Beyond the cheap special effects, you can also you that the kid is brainwashed with globularist doctrine. Look at his face and mannerism and just try to convince yourself otherwise. He has the wide eyes of a puppet.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Silverdane

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2011, 10:18:34 AM »
The definition of a constellation is a group of stars. Generally the ones that form the known patterns such as Orion, the Great Bear, etc.
Regardless of ClockTowers pedantry and semantic games, i can definitely see stars in that video.

Mizuki x

Of course you do. So do I.

The only problem is they don't exist.

On that video, the first few seconds have no stars. Pure darkness sky, that isn't even that dark at night.

Very artificial. Only after some stars appear to "rise", do they start to move.

Also have you calculated if the speed of the rising stars is consistant with the speed of the so called "satellite" flying around the so called ball-earth?

Because according to RET, that horizon should be extremely wide, and impossible to look that small.

Also because of the fish eye's view, those stars have absolutely no curvature, the same way the horizon should have.

Since the earth should not be that round, and the RET pretends it's much more "wide" and thus hard to seen with that exagerated curve, the stars should also be a lot more curved.

Yet they appear on a flat skyline, that isn't even anything like the night sky. Which isn't black at all.
We shall have a magnificent orgy garden party & you're not invited

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Silverdane

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2011, 10:21:42 AM »
Well, considering the amount of drag there is in high-Earth orbit, not very much at all, they wouldn't have to constantly fire their thrusters, would they? They'd only need to fire them for a specific "burn period" to get the ISS to rotate at a "Geo-synchronous" rate (I put "Geo-synchronous" in quotes because I'm not sure if that's the right term) and then only fire them occasionally afterwards for maintenance of their rotation.

You sound like one those unhealthy people who think they're Napoleon.

Tell me, have you escaped from the mental institution or did you bribe the interns to give you access to the internet and a computer?

You did none of those things. You only imagine doing them. But you haven't.

This isn't proof you Jarhead.

Your ass-umptions of "what they would do", counts for nothing. You can't even prove any of that existed, with a proper compass on their board, showing the actual curvature of the needle, because of the earth's shifting magnetic fields, due to their so called "trajectory of motion".

Without a compass, are RET incompetents?

Or does the Great Napoleon have a phobia of compasses?
We shall have a magnificent orgy garden party & you're not invited

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2011, 01:51:00 PM »
Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?

1) The ISS has a periapsis of 376 km an an apoapsis of 398 km. It is approximately circular. Either way, that doesnít affect its attitude.

2) Actually, yes it does keep the same orientation with the earth at all times. This might not be relevant to this discussion, but still an interesting point of information.

3) The location of the horizon does not change, and you can see parts of the ISS in the picture. Therefore you have enough information to see that the angle does not change. There is no need to measure the angle, because itís relative angle that we are worried about. That is, a change in angle between the previous and the current. It also doesnít matter if the camera was held by hand or not since you can see both the horizon and part of the ISS in all frames.

4) It starts next to Canada and ends just as Antarctica enters view. Probably between a third and a half, definitely not more than a half. We're probably talking about 35-40 minutes.
1) So you agree that it's not circular. I also note that you agree that it's in orbit around the Earth. Thanks for that concession. Do tell us how that would not affect attitude.
2) Do you honestly believe that? The attitude must be constantly adjusted and is not perfectly constant as you claim. Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_control_(spacecraft).
3) Again to what precision are you measuring? Just stating that you can see that it isn't changing does not make it so.
4) Irrelevant.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2011, 02:19:39 PM »
1) So you agree that it's not circular. I also note that you agree that it's in orbit around the Earth. Thanks for that concession. Do tell us how that would not affect attitude.
2) Do you honestly believe that? The attitude must be constantly adjusted and is not perfectly constant as you claim. Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_control_(spacecraft).
3) Again to what precision are you measuring? Just stating that you can see that it isn't changing does not make it so.
4) Irrelevant.

1) You're welcome. I also admit that the earth is not a sphere (it is an oblate spheroid), but it is close enough that it is often modeled as such. As such, the ISS's orbit is close enough to circular that it can be modeled as such.

Either way, orbital parameters simply don't affect attitude, there is no relationship between them. If you think the orbit of a spacecraft somehow affects the direction it's facing, then you should probably show me how. You asserting that it somehow does does not make it so.

2) You're getting warmer. If only you'd pay attention to the source you posted, the answer is in there.

3) You never asked for my precision before, you asked for my reasoning. I gave it. The precision is not very high, but it does not need to be for the purposes of this observation. It is clear that there is no major change in angle over the period of time during which this video takes place.

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2011, 02:35:15 PM »
Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?
Try again.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2011, 02:37:09 PM »
Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?
Try again.

So you've replied to my least relevant point. Congratulations. I'm beginning to think that you don't actually know shit about orbital mechanics or vehicle attitude control. Would this be far from the truth?

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2011, 02:45:10 PM »
Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?
Try again.

So you've replied to my least relevant point. Congratulations. I'm beginning to think that you don't actually know shit about orbital mechanics or vehicle attitude control. Would this be far from the truth?
So no response at all? You must hate it when someone points out that you're not reading responses. I'll get to your other points with time--if any others are even worthy of a response. For example, I never claimed that the ISS doesn't use its own RCS, so responding to a straw man is low on my listm
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2011, 03:05:19 PM »
Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?
Try again.

So you've replied to my least relevant point. Congratulations. I'm beginning to think that you don't actually know shit about orbital mechanics or vehicle attitude control. Would this be far from the truth?
So no response at all? You must hate it when someone points out that you're not reading responses. I'll get to your other points with time--if any others are even worthy of a response. For example, I never claimed that the ISS doesn't use its own RCS, so responding to a straw man is low on my listm

So you still want to know to what precision I'm measuring, even though it's not relevant, and I already gave you a response about it? Are you angry or something? You should think about whether you're actually arguing the right point here.

Maybe if you would just look up how the space station controls its attitude instead of arguing out of your ass about irrelevant details while revealing your utter lack of knowledge in the field of astronautics, you might actually learn something about how the world works. That is why you're on this website, right?

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2011, 03:22:14 PM »
Ok fine. Now just explain to me how the ISS was able to keep the exact same angle between it and "earth" for a third of an orbit, especially since you claim it doesn't use its own RCS.
You beg the question. The ISS is not in a circular orbit and does not keep the exact same angle between it and the Earth. Also the video capture is for more than half of an orbit. How did you measure that angle to determine that it was exactly the same throughout the orbit? With what precision can you measure that angle in any given frame? Wasn't the camera held by hand?
Try again.

So you've replied to my least relevant point. Congratulations. I'm beginning to think that you don't actually know shit about orbital mechanics or vehicle attitude control. Would this be far from the truth?
So no response at all? You must hate it when someone points out that you're not reading responses. I'll get to your other points with time--if any others are even worthy of a response. For example, I never claimed that the ISS doesn't use its own RCS, so responding to a straw man is low on my list.

So you still want to know to what precision I'm measuring, even though it's not relevant, and I already gave you a response about it? Are you angry or something? You should think about whether you're actually arguing the right point here.

Maybe if you would just look up how the space station controls its attitude instead of arguing out of your ass about irrelevant details while revealing your utter lack of knowledge in the field of astronautics, you might actually learn something about how the world works. That is why you're on this website, right?
My point is that you don't read responses.

Now let me start with the basics... If a statelite is in a highly elliptical orbit and not using any attitude control and if the statelite at its apogee has a boom that points "down" parallel to the Earth's rotational axis (and southward), where is the boom pointing at perigee?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards


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Rushy

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2011, 04:03:52 PM »
I still don't understand what your ultimate point is though. Are you trying to prove the ISS is fake?

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2011, 04:08:40 PM »
I thought I was following this debate but that last post totally threw me.

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2011, 04:09:27 PM »
In fact I'm pretty sure that somewhere on this page, ClockTower and NASA_Lies switched arguments.

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Silverdane

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2011, 04:30:55 PM »
Well it's obvious to me that you didn't read the link that I posted, but I'll humor you anyway because this is fun.

Assuming that the boom is not there for the purpose of gravity gradient stabilization (which is a valid assumption because you claim that the satellite is "not using any attitude control"), the boom will always be facing the same direction, parallel to the earth's axis of rotation. This is because there is no net external moment causing it to rotate. Orbital eccentricity does not magically introduce a net external moment on the spacecraft. [/url]

Wow I don't believe this. You have just proven it's fake !!

Obviously the boom would just throw it further and further from orbit, and further and further from the Earth itself.

Thus in a single revolution, those booms should already have sent it so far from the World, it wouldn't even be close to holding an orbit.

\Thanks you are a great Flat Earth theorist.
We shall have a magnificent orgy garden party & you're not invited

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2011, 05:15:16 PM »
Now let me start with the basics... If a statelite is in a highly elliptical orbit and not using any attitude control and if the statelite at its apogee has a boom that points "down" parallel to the Earth's rotational axis (and southward), where is the boom pointing at perigee?

Well it's obvious to me that you didn't read the link that I posted, but I'll humor you anyway because this is fun.

Assuming that the boom is not there for the purpose of gravity gradient stabilization (which is a valid assumption because you claim that the satellite is "not using any attitude control"), the boom will always be facing the same direction, parallel to the earth's axis of rotation. This is because there is no net external moment causing it to rotate. Orbital eccentricity does not magically introduce a net external moment on the spacecraft.

So then let's for simplicity's sake make that statelite's orbit directly over the Equator at all times. Now is its attitude with a reference point, say the Rotational North Pole, the same throughout its orbit? If we change its orbit eccentricity to 1, does the attitude with the NP at some point in its orbit differ now from before the change?

Quote
Either way, orbital parameters simply don't affect attitude, there is no relationship between them.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2011, 08:45:17 PM »
I've been lurking here a few days and I've read the FAQ. None of you really think the Earth is flat. Especially Silverdane. You just like arguing and throwing around technical data. This is like your Facebook. It's just what you do. You know the Earth is round. I know it's round. EVERYBODY knows it's round, but you ran out of ways to be different. Maybe you did the Goth thing or the Emo thing and that wasn't different enough. Everybody's doing that now, right? So what to do, what to do? I know! "THE EARTH IS FLAT!" That'll get someones attention. There's almost endless potential for argument because you can't prove it, and no RE'er can prove it on this forum, because none of us has ever actually been up into space to see it for sure. And even if we had, you'd just say we were part of the "Conspiracy". It can go on forever. I love it! I don't buy it for one second, but I love it. Keep it up "FE'ers".
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 08:47:27 PM by Vatos_Locos_Forever »
It's round...No really, it is. Sorry

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2011, 07:06:47 AM »
So then let's for simplicity's sake make that statelite's orbit directly over the Equator at all times. Now is its attitude with a reference point, say the Rotational North Pole, the same throughout its orbit? If we change its orbit eccentricity to 1, does the attitude with the NP at some point in its orbit differ now from before the change?

Just so we have an understanding of exactly what's going on here, I've made a diagram. The X coordinate of the earth centered system is pointed towards the north pole, Z is facing to the right, and Y to the lower left. I've also included velocity vectors just for fun.



The X component of the spacecraft's attitude will always be parallel to the earth centered system, but since the earth is rotating, the Y and Z components will deviate. However, the spacecraft's attitude will remain constant with respect to an inertial (non-rotating) reference frame.

Nothing changes with respect to attitude when the spacecraft changes its orbital eccentricity from 0 to 1.

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2011, 08:49:32 AM »
Well it's obvious to me that you didn't read the link that I posted, but I'll humor you anyway because this is fun.

Assuming that the boom is not there for the purpose of gravity gradient stabilization (which is a valid assumption because you claim that the satellite is "not using any attitude control"), the boom will always be facing the same direction, parallel to the earth's axis of rotation. This is because there is no net external moment causing it to rotate. Orbital eccentricity does not magically introduce a net external moment on the spacecraft. [/url]

Wow I don't believe this. You have just proven it's fake !!

Obviously the boom would just throw it further and further from orbit, and further and further from the Earth itself.

Thus in a single revolution, those booms should already have sent it so far from the World, it wouldn't even be close to holding an orbit.

\Thanks you are a great Flat Earth theorist.

You are by far the fakest troll here. Get a new idea, it's been done already man. Arguing for something you don't even believe.
The FAQ needs updating to reflect the falsehood of the FAQ.

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Silverdane

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Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2011, 09:45:25 AM »
I've been lurking here a few days and I've read the FAQ. None of you really think the Earth is flat. Especially Silverdane. You just like arguing and throwing around technical data. This is like your Facebook. It's just what you do. You know the Earth is round. I know it's round. EVERYBODY knows it's round, but you ran out of ways to be different. Maybe you did the Goth thing or the Emo thing and that wasn't different enough. Everybody's doing that now, right? So what to do, what to do? I know! "THE EARTH IS FLAT!" That'll get someones attention. There's almost endless potential for argument because you can't prove it, and no RE'er can prove it on this forum, because none of us has ever actually been up into space to see it for sure. And even if we had, you'd just say we were part of the "Conspiracy". It can go on forever. I love it! I don't buy it for one second, but I love it. Keep it up "FE'ers".

You're trying to get attention by coming to a FET Society forum, and saying you're a Round Earther?

If that isn't the definition of Attention Whore, what is !?!?

You're the one trying to be different.

Every FET here, is just another believer on this site, which is named "Flat Earth Society". I don't see what's so special about us?
We shall have a magnificent orgy garden party & you're not invited

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2011, 09:56:03 AM »
I know your kicking right into argument mode and I like that, but sorry, still not buying it. You don't believe any of this crap. Keep trying to convince everyone though because it's entertaining as all hell.
It's round...No really, it is. Sorry

Re: Any analyses on this video from the ISS?
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2011, 10:05:41 AM »
I know your kicking right into argument mode and I like that, but sorry, still not buying it. You don't believe any of this crap. Keep trying to convince everyone though because it's entertaining as all hell.

If it is fake (which you cannot prove), then why wouldn't you just shut the hell up and go along with it instead of being a giant killjoy, especially since you readily admit that it's "entertaining as hell?"

Either way, go ruin a different thread, ClockTower and I were having an important discussion on orbital mechanics and attitude dynamics.