How to circumnavigate and measure distances without leaving home

Light has no freedom to shine upon anything when it's confined to an enclosed fiber-optic cable.

Light travels faster in a field with higher EM frequencies, like the Southern Belt.
The same EM field is weaker in the Northern Core, thus light isn't really accelerated here, as it is south of the Ecuator.
You don't have to panic, just because your lies are unfounded.

If you cannot handle criticism and exposition of the flaws your excuses, why come to a Flat Earth Society forum, in the first place?

Maybe you enjoy fighting losing battles? To see how far you can debate yourself out of a lie you stick to, until your logic fails?

Foolish. You should have a Joker for your avatar instead.

Light travels faster in a field with higher EM frequencies, like the Southern Belt.
The same EM field is weaker in the Northern Core, thus light isn't really accelerated here, as it is south of the Ecuator.

But you didn't say anything about EM fields, you said it was due to the greater distances light has freedom to travel in the south. So naturally I pointed out that such freedom doesn't exist inside a cable.

You need to understand that, since I was born with the genetic cognitive defect that causes one to believe that the world is a sphere, you need to be more explicit and thorough when explaining things to me. So if you meant EM fields, you should have said EM fields.

Anyway, does this mean the fiber-op network within Australia is faster than the one in North America, or do the Australian companies make them slower so that nobody gets suspicious? Or is Australia really as enormous as it appears to be on the FE map but nobody notices because they're all giants who move around faster because of EM fields?

You should have a Joker for your avatar instead.

I thank you, I will consider this.

So we're down to one question: Why is the speed of light slower in the north?

I can't believe how utterly STUPID this is.

I am an IT professional and clearly you know jack shit about latency. This thread should be closed immediately because it is a joke.

Thank you for not including the fact that switches and infrastructure affect the speed of the traceroute. I mean come on man, do you think before you post this shit?

Not to mention speed of the individual connections.

Oh my god this is dumb.

I am an IT professional and clearly you know jack shit about latency.

While I agree with your general sentiment, saying "You're stupid because I'm an expert" doesn't make you look much like the expert you claim to be. Saying "you know nothing about X" without explaining what your opponent is wrong about makes your argument look like an exit strategy, and a mediocre one.

Thank you for not including the fact that switches and infrastructure affect the speed of the traceroute.

How many switches are there in the middle of the North Pacific? Please read the link, and the thread, more carefully.

Not to mention speed of the individual connections.

We're specifically talking about fiber-optic connections only.

I am an IT professional and clearly you know jack shit about latency.

I'm an IT professional as well, as if it matters. I never claimed this would be absolutely precise, but the error factor is nowhere near what it would need to be in order to suggest that the FE'ers are correct. Does latency increase proportionately towards the south? No. Next time pay attention instead of screaming about how stupid the assumptions you leapt to are.

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 29, 2011, 06:31:24 AM

Thank you for not including the fact that switches and infrastructure affect the speed of the traceroute.

How many switches are there in the middle of the North Pacific? Please read the link, and the thread, more carefully.

Infrastructure includes repeaters which can introduce latency.

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 29, 2011, 06:31:24 AM

Not to mention speed of the individual connections.

We're specifically talking about fiber-optic connections only.

How does traceroute know the difference between a fiber optic cable and copper?

Infrastructure includes repeaters which can introduce latency.

Correct. And your point is...? How does this affect our ability to compare distances? An equal distance calls for an equal number of repeaters.

How does traceroute know the difference between a fiber optic cable and copper?

Traceroute tells you the domain names and IP addresses of the nodes it crosses. For example, in the test shown in the link, the 8th hop was from 140.32.130.186 to uhnet.net, which is directly from mainland USA to Hawaii, so we know it went through a submarine cable.

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 29, 2011, 06:31:24 AM

Thank you for not including the fact that switches and infrastructure affect the speed of the traceroute.

How many switches are there in the middle of the North Pacific? Please read the link, and the thread, more carefully.

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 29, 2011, 06:31:24 AM

Not to mention speed of the individual connections.

We're specifically talking about fiber-optic connections only.

Quote from: LinearPlane on December 29, 2011, 06:31:24 AM

I am an IT professional and clearly you know jack shit about latency.

I'm an IT professional as well, as if it matters. I never claimed this would be absolutely precise, but the error factor is nowhere near what it would need to be in order to suggest that the FE'ers are correct. Does latency increase proportionately towards the south? No. Next time pay attention instead of screaming about how stupid the assumptions you leapt to are.

yeah? How do you get through the cables without going through infrastructure?

Dumb dumb dumb.

I was too rough on you so I edited this, but please, think about this. Equipment can affect it.

yeah? How do you get through the cables without going through infrastructure?

Dumb dumb dumb.

Do you have any idea how traceroute works? We're not measuring the total time to reach a destination. The oceanic segment of the route is represented as a single hop. The infrastructure for these submarine cables is nowhere near as complex and diverse as on land. The infrastructure is roughly uniform along a whole undersea route, both in the north and the south, and the cables are identical. I ask again: Does latency increase proportionately towards the south? If the Earth is shaped the way FET claims, undersea hops should take up to 3 times longer in the south; repeated testing should consistently produce the same results, even factoring in variable latency.

Note that I could have just said "I'm an IT professional too and you're stupid and wrong and dumb," but instead I explained the point. If you're going to attack this again, you need to come up with something better than "I'm an expert" and "dumb dumb dumb". Do some proper research and find something to back up your argument. Here is a good starting point: http://www.submarinecablemap.com/


*edit: small correction: the FET model would be explained by latency decreasing proportionately towards the south, not increasing.

So you're saying the latency of the same optic cable should decrease, in the south, yes?

Meaning the optic cable would have more speed in the south .... that's right?

Hmm, but you would need very long distances to measure that difference accurately.

Say a cable at least 1000 miles long. One in Europe, the other in Australia, for example.

Or one in Canada, the other in Australia.

And would they have to be on the N-S line paralel to the longitude?

If they are spread out in a line, by latitude, the results are hard to predict.

You need to prove first, that they would be longer, according the FET model, when you spread them in a line, on the N-S or W-E, model.

Keep in mind that the E-W is actually a curved line, according to the Flat Earth Theory.  While the N-S is straight.

So how would it have to be, to prove it's faster "down south"? Circular along the E-W lines?

That makes it a lot easier to prove, because it's impossible to spread a cable 1000 km long, directly E-W in Australia.

That would be impossible, because the FET says the East and West aren't straight lines, but curved.

So if there were a perfectly East West, lined cable, longer than 1000 km, in Australia, and it was also proven to be perfectly straight, and without any ammount of curvature, that should be enough to prove RET.

Such a cable does not exist.

It's easy even for those cables to be intentionally curved, to give the illusion of longer distances. Such as the northern hemidisc cables, that can be purposefully "unstraight", to elongate the time distances to match those of the longer southern hemidisc.

Hmm, but you would need very long distances to measure that difference accurately.

Say a cable at least 1000 miles long.

Done. http://www.submarinecablemap.com/

You need to prove first, that they would be longer, according the FET model, when you spread them in a line, on the N-S or W-E, model.

Keep in mind that the E-W is actually a curved line, according to the Flat Earth Theory.  While the N-S is straight.

Done.

So if there were a perfectly East West, lined cable, longer than 1000 km, in Australia, and it was also proven to be perfectly straight, and without any ammount of curvature, that should be enough to prove RET.

Wrong. The cable only needs to travel East-West. Since the North-South distances are equal on both maps, they can cancel each other out and you're left with the East-West distances. It will still be longer on the FET map regardless of whether it's parallel to a line of latitude or not. See above.

It's easy even for those cables to be intentionally curved, to give the illusion of longer distances. Such as the northern hemidisc cables, that can be purposefully "unstraight", to elongate the time distances to match those of the longer southern hemidisc.

You're trying to subtract the north-south half of the vector to make up for the east-west discrepancy, but you can't because north-south distances are the same in FET and RET. The north-south parts of the trajectory need to remain, otherwise a cable in the south would never reach its destination to the northeast. This is elementary geometry.