@Daniel

  • 199 Replies
  • 28730 Views
*

Lord Wilmore

  • Vice President
  • Administrator
  • 12106
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2011, 10:43:22 PM »
I feel I should say something about all this, starting with my absence. It's partly due to decreasing free time, and partly due to increasing frustration. Most of my spare hours are allocated to reading/writing for college or pleasure, and the remainder spent socialising with *gasp* real people. Between my classmates and my girlfriend's, I now exist in a nexus of philosophers and literary critics, all of whom are huge nerds, and as such, drinking and talking IRL has never been so enjoyable. At the same time, it's very hard to motivate myself to come here, because as an admin, I'm supposed to, you know, do stuff. As a result, when I can't come here regularly, it feels like a huge pile of work is buliding up that I naughtily haven't done, and because I don't want to deal with it, I stay away.


That's the decreasing-free-time bit. It ties into the increasing-frustration bit, because it's even harder to motivate myself to come here and perform the sisyphean task of modding and defending FET when there's such an inescapable sense of stagnation. That, I will openly admit, is largely due to the 'Daniel Problem'. It's just extremely frustrating to answer so many constructive criticisms and suggestions by saying "Only Daniel can do that", which as we all know is mod-doublespeak for "Ain't gonna happen".


Now, I'm not criticising Daniel for not getting things done or being active enough around here. Daniel has a job (which funds this site), a relationship and a life. These things require time, and obviously have priority over FES. Indeed, I would be the most hypocritical of hypocrites if I took issue with that - I frequently drop off the radar for months because of real-world demands on my time. The difference is that when I vanish, Daniel or Jack can take up the slack admin-wise, and the other mods can take up the slack modding-wise. Simply put, when I am unable to carry out my duties as Supreme Forum Janitor, others can cover for me. However, if something on the site needs doing or fixing or improvng, only Daniel can do the job. So when he's gone, progress on that front grinds to a halt.


Let's take a simple example, like the forum banner/skin. It's ugly, and nobody (Daniel included) seems to like it. I know I couldn't put together a decent replacement, but I'm certain there are loads of people here who could come up with something awesome. It would be great if we could open it up to members and ask them to give it a try, and then upload and install the new theme. However, because Daniel is either unwilling or (as I suspect) unable to start such a project, we're left staring at the ugly original months after the upgrade. It would also be great if when a member put forward a constructive idea to improve the site, we could meet it with an enthusiasm grounded in the possibility of its realisation, instead of considering it with apathy or hyper-criticism borne of the clear futility of positive discussion. It's hard not to become despondent about the administrative situation when I see a cool, thought-out suggestion that I know is going absolutely nowhere.


The obvious solution, as I said to Daniel in the mod board, is very simple. Daniel needs to delegate technical and decision-making responsibility the same way he delegates moderating responsibility. In other words, he needs to let us make some decisions in his absence, and appoint a technical administrator so that we can actually act upon them. John is the obvious candidate for that post, or at least he was when I said all this three months ago. Since then, he has decided to leave, apparently due to what he sees as the declining atmosphere and culture of the forum. However, I can't help but feel that frustration at the site's administrative stasis is a significant factor in his decision to bow out. After all, he's happy to put his time into his new FE project, which I think says a lot about the potential he sees for furthering such initiatives here at .org. Moreover, I feel the sense of stagnation has been at least partly responsible for the bad vibe that has developed in the forum. I can't prove it or point to any evidence, but I definitely think it's a root cause.


Indeed, I feel like a case in point. Having politely (and at some length) made the above suggestions, which I felt to be both obvious and reasonable, I received no response from Daniel, even though he replied to the thread several days later. When the issue is so apparent, and attempts to address it are simply ignored, it becomes very hard to constantly play the apologist. Hence this rant of sorts.


I do want to make a couple of things clear. First of all, I enjoy chatting, debating and shooting the shit here for its own sake. I don't just come here to be an internet Nazi. For that reason, I've considered hanging up my admin boots, just so I won't be put-off coming here by all of the above, and can start enjoying FES properly. However, I'm still hopeful Daniel will do something to address the situation, perhaps over the holidays. So I wait, perhaps in vain, for a real solution.


Secondly, I still think Daniel should continue to be President, and that the idea of him stepping down has no real merit. Daniel has refounded and funded the society, and has worked hard to put meat on the bones of what was originally only a discussion forum. I just wish he'd loosen the reins and let others help out more. It would be good for everyone involved, and above all good for the Flat Earth Society.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 10:51:33 PM by Lord Wilmore »
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2011, 11:07:44 PM »
Thank you for your sincerity, Wilmore.  I'd like to point out that it's not just you, and it's not just Daniel.  Jack is not around that often either.  James rarely posts.  Divito has apparently bowed out completely.  And now John has announced he's leaving.

There are some holes to fill, and Daniel is the only one who can fill them.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17696
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2011, 11:52:54 PM »
Secondly, I still think Daniel should continue to be President, and that the idea of him stepping down has no real merit.

Disgustingly false. Daniel only shows his face on here once every few months. We need better than that.

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #63 on: December 25, 2011, 12:19:51 AM »
Secondly, I still think Daniel should continue to be President, and that the idea of him stepping down has no real merit.

Disgustingly false. Daniel only shows his face on here once every few months. We need better than that.
Tom, your reputation pales in comparison. How could you ever criticize Daniel when you've been caught repeated in lies? Especially, the "I took this picture of the rising Moon in my backyard. See it's bigger!" and "I can see beach balls across the Bay with my telescope." lies eliminate you as a critic or a replacement
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

*

Parsifal

  • Official Member
  • 36115
  • Bendy Light specialist
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2011, 12:47:47 AM »
I'm still amazed that people actually think there's hope of things changing. We've been having problems with the forum software for two years already (note that post mentions it being ongoing for a year at the time of posting), with very little being done in the way of fixing it, despite offers of help from at least myself and John Davis. When I contacted Daniel after the site got hacked and offered to help troubleshoot the problem, given my experience with investigating sites using badly written CMSes that get hacked at work, I received no reply whatsoever. Not even a "thanks, but no thanks."

Yes, the way things are run is bullshit, but if they haven't changed since 2009 when this whole shebang got started, they aren't going to change at all. Your tl;dr ranting is perfectly valid, but entirely inconsequential. Live with it.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

*

Lorddave

  • 16289
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2011, 01:47:29 AM »
The only solution I see to the Daniel problem of the forum is to move to Parsifal's forum.  Leadership of the society then becomes irrelevant.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

*

Parsifal

  • Official Member
  • 36115
  • Bendy Light specialist
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2011, 02:24:17 AM »
The only solution I see to the Daniel problem of the forum is to move to Parsifal's forum.  Leadership of the society then becomes irrelevant.

I took my forum offline because nobody was using it. I can easily bring it back if necessary, but I don't see why people would suddenly want to use it the second time around.

As I said, people have indicated that they want Daniel in charge by posting here. If they want Daniel in charge, why would they move?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

?

Thork

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2011, 03:58:24 AM »
Secondly, I still think Daniel should continue to be President, and that the idea of him stepping down has no real merit.

Disgustingly false. Daniel only shows his face on here once every few months. We need better than that.
Tom, your reputation pales in comparison. How could you ever criticize Daniel when you've been caught repeated in lies? Especially, the "I took this picture of the rising Moon in my backyard. See it's bigger!" and "I can see beach balls across the Bay with my telescope." lies eliminate you as a critic or a replacement
Give Tom a break. Its xmas day and he is by far the best FEr we have. He's always here, he's always fighting the cause and you know without him, the upper fora would slip even further into decline. To lose Tom would be another massive blow for the site. How many hours has he spent entertaining you and thousands of others?
Too many people left this site because they feel under-appreciated. Lets not give Tom the wrong impression as well. He's awesome and is as important as anyone to TFES.

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #68 on: December 25, 2011, 04:16:22 AM »
Tom is FES

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #69 on: December 25, 2011, 08:18:45 AM »
The only solution I see to the Daniel problem of the forum is to move to Parsifal's forum.  Leadership of the society then becomes irrelevant.

heh heh
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

?

sillyrob

  • Official Member
  • 3771
  • Punk rawk.
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #70 on: December 25, 2011, 09:06:23 AM »
I don't understand why people get so butthurt over what happens on this site.
That's likely because you're deeply convinced FE'ers don't exist.
I know there are a few real FE'ers.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 43843
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #71 on: December 25, 2011, 12:43:31 PM »
Welcome back and merry Christmas Wilmore!
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

?

The Knowledge

  • 2391
  • FE'ers don't do experiments. It costs too much.
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #72 on: December 25, 2011, 04:35:24 PM »
@ the ever-increasingly ironically named user known as "The Knowledge":

It's utterly amazing to me that with your five months of active experience on these forums you think you understand them better than the (many) intelligent people who have been here for years.

The thought has crossed my mind that Daniel started this site as a social experiment.  It's likely crossed most of our minds.  I'm sure there are other users who have come to this conclusion, and I'll be the first to admit that we can only guess at what Daniel had in mind when he started this site.  In a way, that's part of its allure.  I don't know if Daniel really believes the Earth is flat and I really don't care, because it's irrelevant.

Yes, this site has its share of trolls.  Let's get that out of the way.  Most of them manage to advertise it sooner or later (or, as is the case with Crusty, nearly every post).

For most of us, this site isn't about trolling.  It's about debate.  There's a lot of honest debate that goes on here, even if it is in favor of a seemingly indefensible position.  That's the attraction of it.  Some people really just enjoy arguing in favor of something they don't really believe, for the intellectual thrill of it. 

Understand, that is not trolling.  The FET forums are exactly what they advertise themselves to be (one of the reasons I doubt any ulterior motives on Daniel's part in the creation of this site).  We tell you this is going to happen on the front page.

Quote from: front page
Flat Earth Debate

This board is reserved for debates on Flat Earth Theory.

We do get many reasonable people who understand this concept, and actively try to engage us in intelligent debate (as much as it pains me to say this, Clocktower actually falls into this category most of the time).

And then we get the angry noobs, like you, who for some reason seem to see (or represent yourselves to see) this site as some kind of threat, and instead of engaging in legitimate debate, mostly rant about how none of us really believe what we're arguing.

Who's the troll?

Again and again and again, attempts at discrediting me based simply on "I've been here longer than you so I must be right and you must be wrong."
I suggests you take a look at history to see just how invalid an argument that is.
And then you render your scorn at me pointless by admitting that you have thought Daniel's motives might be what I say they are, and are unable to prove otherwise.  :P
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #73 on: December 25, 2011, 06:12:22 PM »
It's not only Daniel, most of the mods are too inactive.
Cheesus is so wise I sometimes think he's my alt.
CheesusCrust is wise.

*

Parsifal

  • Official Member
  • 36115
  • Bendy Light specialist
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #74 on: December 25, 2011, 06:19:27 PM »
It's not only Daniel, most of the mods are too inactive.

Actually, that's only a symptom of Daniel being inactive. If he were around, or if he appointed someone to make decisions on his behalf, we would have new mods.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #75 on: December 26, 2011, 10:01:44 AM »
We should try to get in contact with him.

?

Thork

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #76 on: December 26, 2011, 10:07:47 AM »
We should try to get in contact with him.
Should we all sit in a circle with our eyes closed and join hands?

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #77 on: December 26, 2011, 10:09:27 AM »
We should try to get in contact with him.
Should we all sit in a circle with our eyes closed and join hands?

I was thinking of more... stalkerish... methods. If one of the mods can get his IP, we could probably find his phone number and call him.

?

Thork

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #78 on: December 26, 2011, 10:25:32 AM »
We should try to get in contact with him.
Should we all sit in a circle with our eyes closed and join hands?

I was thinking of more... stalkerish... methods. If one of the mods can get his IP, we could probably find his phone number and call him.

What? Do you understand the internet at all? If you want Daniel's phone number, just use the internet.

Quote from: http://www.whois.net/whois/theflatearthsociety.org
Admin Name:Daniel Shenton
Admin Organization:The Flat Earth Society
Admin Street1:PO Box 62457
Admin Street2:1 Hull Place
Admin Street3:
Admin City:London
Admin State/Province:--
Admin Postal Code:E16 9AG
Admin Country:GB
Admin Phone:+44.07971459627
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:daniel@theflatearthsociety.org
There you go. Phone him, e-mail him, send him some poo in the post. Its all yours.

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #79 on: December 26, 2011, 02:15:42 PM »
Knowledge, what is wrong with you? Do you honestly think that any opposing opinion to your own is either a joke or an elaborate social experiment? Are you that arrogant? To be honest, if your head was any further up your own arse you'd implode.

This is one of the most hilariously ironic things I've ever read.

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35368
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #80 on: December 26, 2011, 02:39:57 PM »
Again and again and again, attempts at discrediting me based simply on "I've been here longer than you so I must be right and you must be wrong."
I suggests you take a look at history to see just how invalid an argument that is.
And then you render your scorn at me pointless by admitting that you have thought Daniel's motives might be what I say they are, and are unable to prove otherwise.  :P

Nobody is saying that.  You keep claiming that this is a troll website or is otherwise insincere, but you never post any solid evidence to try and support it.  Even if you don't mean it that way, this implies that you're speaking from general experience.  In which case, your general inexperience becomes a very relevant point.

*

Roundy the Truthinessist

  • Flat Earth TheFLAMETHROWER!
  • The Elder Ones
  • 27043
  • I'm the boss.
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #81 on: December 26, 2011, 02:43:58 PM »
Again and again and again, attempts at discrediting me based simply on "I've been here longer than you so I must be right and you must be wrong."
I suggests you take a look at history to see just how invalid an argument that is.
And then you render your scorn at me pointless by admitting that you have thought Daniel's motives might be what I say they are, and are unable to prove otherwise.  :P

Nobody is saying that.  You keep claiming that this is a troll website or is otherwise insincere, but you never post any solid evidence to try and support it.  Even if you don't mean it that way, this implies that you're speaking from general experience.  In which case, your general inexperience becomes a very relevant point.

Meh, it's just trolling.  It's probably best that we pay it no mind from here on out because it's clearly not worth the effort.  Feeding it will surely only make it happy and want to troll more.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

*

Parsifal

  • Official Member
  • 36115
  • Bendy Light specialist
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #82 on: December 26, 2011, 08:06:52 PM »
What? Do you understand the internet at all? If you want Daniel's phone number, just use the internet.

Quote from: http://www.whois.net/whois/theflatearthsociety.org
Admin Name:Daniel Shenton
Admin Organization:The Flat Earth Society
Admin Street1:PO Box 62457
Admin Street2:1 Hull Place
Admin Street3:
Admin City:London
Admin State/Province:--
Admin Postal Code:E16 9AG
Admin Country:GB
Admin Phone:+44.07971459627
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:daniel@theflatearthsociety.org
There you go. Phone him, e-mail him, send him some poo in the post. Its all yours.

>claims to understand the internet [sic]
>using a web whois proxy
>implying it's not trivial to register a domain name with fake contact information

I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

*

PizzaPlanet

  • 12252
  • Now available in stereo
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #83 on: December 26, 2011, 10:38:30 PM »
We should try to get in contact with him.
Should we all sit in a circle with our eyes closed and join hands?

I was thinking of more... stalkerish... methods. If one of the mods can get his IP, we could probably find his phone number and call him.

What? Do you understand the internet at all? If you want Daniel's phone number, just use the internet.

Quote from: http://www.whois.net/whois/theflatearthsociety.org
Admin Name:Daniel Shenton
Admin Organization:The Flat Earth Society
Admin Street1:PO Box 62457
Admin Street2:1 Hull Place
Admin Street3:
Admin City:London
Admin State/Province:--
Admin Postal Code:E16 9AG
Admin Country:GB
Admin Phone:+44.07971459627
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:daniel@theflatearthsociety.org
There you go. Phone him, e-mail him, send him some poo in the post. Its all yours.
I'm not saying whois is rocket science, but sometimes things are much simpler than that.
I could also post a picture of his calling card, which he puts in pretty much all his mail, but it's all the way in England, and I'm all the way in not-England right now.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 10:43:11 PM by PizzaPlanet »
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

?

Thork

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #84 on: December 27, 2011, 09:49:38 AM »
... something patronising and irrelevant
Being as PizzaPlanet's info is identical, it is likely the number I supplied is not 'fake'. The point was that there are dozens of ways to get info like that very easily, and digging about for IP addresses is a bit silly.

Anyway, I'd like to know how that phone call went so update me please Tausami.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17696
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #85 on: December 27, 2011, 10:06:13 AM »
>claims to understand the internet [sic]
>using a web whois proxy
>implying it's not trivial to register a domain name with fake contact information

Registrars are required by ICANN to routinely remind customers to update their contact info. One can ultimately lose the domain if the whois info is bogus.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 10:08:32 AM by Tom Bishop »

?

Thork

Re: @Daniel
« Reply #86 on: December 27, 2011, 10:07:19 AM »
One can ultimately lose the domain if the whois info is bogus.
... interesting ... maybe TFES can be saved? ...  :-\

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17696
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #87 on: December 27, 2011, 10:10:17 AM »
If Daniel abandons the site for months at a time again and is not contactable by his whois info then we can make a complaint and have the domain removed from his possession. Hopefully then it can be re-registered and put up as a proper society.

Below is an excerpt from ICANN's Registrar Accreditation Agreement--

    3.7.7.2 A Registered Name Holder's willful provision of inaccurate or unreliable information, its willful failure promptly to update information provided to Registrar, or its failure to respond for over fifteen calendar days to inquiries by Registrar concerning the accuracy of contact details associated with the Registered Name Holder's registration shall constitute a material breach of the Registered Name Holder-registrar contract and be a basis for cancellation of the Registered Name registration.

Complaints can be made here: http://wdprs.internic.net/
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 10:39:54 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35368
  • Former President of Iraq
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #88 on: December 27, 2011, 12:16:01 PM »
Oh, great, Tom is doing his lawyer troll again. ::)

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: @Daniel
« Reply #89 on: December 27, 2011, 04:18:54 PM »
... something patronising and irrelevant
Being as PizzaPlanet's info is identical, it is likely the number I supplied is not 'fake'. The point was that there are dozens of ways to get info like that very easily, and digging about for IP addresses is a bit silly.

Anyway, I'd like to know how that phone call went so update me please Tausami.

There's exactly zero chance of me making an international call to him. I forgot he lives in England. I sent him an email and posted on his twitter. Hopefully he'll respond. If not, who else lives over there (and is still active)?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 04:23:45 PM by Tausami »