@Daniel

I fail to see how turning over control of the forums would make this place more fun, get more members, or run more efficiently. What, is the new owner of the website going to put up "Join the FES!" banners all over the internet? The things that people bitch about when it comes to Daniel has absolutely nothing to do with why this site is dying. I have been here for over two years now. Want to know how many times I have read pages on the wiki? About three times, and doubt anybody else has either. I seriously doubt any newcomers bother to look at it, even if it did have lots of good content and was updated. Angry Ranting? All that would do is provide entertainment for regulars, while at the same time drive off new people. Remember that everyone started off as an angry noob. But if you humiliate and taunt the noobs to the point of driving them away instead of letting them figure it out, our regular count would drop by a lot.

For all the years the FES has been up, Daniel has consistently not been active, yet there has still been lots of activity. The reason why the FES had been so boring is the lack of interesting characters, and an increase of people that feel the necessity to complain (Thork). If we had people like CR90, sokural, Horatio, and Clocktower to laugh at all the time, nobody would even think twice about bitching at Daniel.

Quote from: The Knowledge on December 23, 2011, 07:59:55 AM

Quote from: Thork on December 21, 2011, 03:46:44 AM

When are you going to give up FES?

Now John Davis has left. Awesome. Another one of the few people on this site that actually backed you, and one of the few people that actually gave a sh*t. We have no mods left. We have no FEBs. We have no wiki. We have no leader.

You are clearly not interested in TFES. You haven't been for years. You use it purely as a joke for your friends. "Look at me, I'm president of the flat earth society" - isn't that joke getting old yet? You can't be getting anything out of it. You are never here.

Traffic is dropping off, regulars are leaving, the quality of posting is at an all time low, and no one can do a damn thing about it.

You are not interested so let someone else do it. John Davis or Tom Bishop. The only two perennial features of FES. FES belongs to them. Let them steer it back to something on the internet worth visiting.

You've been a total ar*sehole about the whole thing. Your friends have all left, you haven't made any new ones because you don't post here. Please p*ss off for good and allow someone else to manage the site.

Kindest regards,

Thork

Oh, do get over yourself. You've got over 6000 posts and yet you still don't realise what this site really is? I think Daniel is doing an excellent job, and part of that job is to see just how far one can provoke idiots like yourself to anger simply by doing nothing. Don't you realise you're standing on an agar plate and Daniel is watching you through his microscope? Of course you don't, you think that you and the other FES bigwigs like Tom and John are in some way important or relevant. Stop strutting about like a bantam cock trying to impress the lady bantams.

So what is this site? Do tell, wise master.

The information is there in my post. I suggest you look up "agar plate", "microscope" and also probably "petri dish" if you're having trouble understanding the analogy.

Just because you like to think this site is a big joke doesn't mean it is. Daniel wouldn't publicly humiliate and socially outcast himself just for lulz. In case you didn't know, Daniel has done plenty of real world interviews. People know he believes the Earth is flat.

You are just like every other angry noob here that just doesn't get it, so they make up their own reason why this site is here.

Just because you like to think this site is a big joke doesn't mean it is. Daniel wouldn't publicly humiliate and socially outcast himself just for lulz. In case you didn't know, Daniel has done plenty of real world interviews. People know he believes the Earth is flat.

You are just like every other angry noob here that just doesn't get it, so they make up their own reason why this site is here.

Oh yeah? There's more evidence that I'm right than there is that the earth is flat. You can't prove this site isn't simply a social experiment into emergent behaviour. Plus, a whole lot of people make up wild ideas just to get their names in the papers.
Anyone who's seen the show Lost: think of the Pearl Station.

Knowledge, what is wrong with you? Do you honestly think that any opposing opinion to your own is either a joke or an elaborate social experiment? Are you that arrogant? To be honest, if your head was any further up your own arse you'd implode.

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 23, 2011, 02:35:28 PM

Just because you like to think this site is a big joke doesn't mean it is. Daniel wouldn't publicly humiliate and socially outcast himself just for lulz. In case you didn't know, Daniel has done plenty of real world interviews. People know he believes the Earth is flat.

You are just like every other angry noob here that just doesn't get it, so they make up their own reason why this site is here.

Oh yeah? There's more evidence that I'm right than there is that the earth is flat. You can't prove this site isn't simply a social experiment into emergent behaviour. Plus, a whole lot of people make up wild ideas just to get their names in the papers.
Anyone who's seen the show Lost: think of the Pearl Station.

"I have lots of evidence this is a social experiment"
>reference television show
>you can't prove something doesn't exist

Nice evidence.

Quote from: Benjamin Franklin on December 22, 2011, 11:44:12 PM

Daniel's paying for the hosting, so do fuck off.

Lol, children. Lots of big people have money and to an adult, web hosting is pretty cheap. People like John Davis already pay for hosting so it would cost them nothing.

This is correct, but irrelevant. Only one of the three previous alternate FES forums gained any sort of momentum while this one was operational, and even then it wasn't enough to become the FES. Why? Because people chose to continue to post here.

As I've said numerous times before, Daniel will remain in charge because people want him to be in charge. If they didn't, they would post elsewhere. And as long as most people want Daniel in charge, there's nothing you can do about it.

I think English is right. We're losing good characters faster than they're being replaced. People get burned out debating for or against FES. I hate to say it but the angry noobs have worn us down. I think Tom Bishop is probably next to leave simply from noob fatigue.


But all forums must die in the end. No subject, no matter how awesome, can keep bringing new people forever.  And no changes are going to fix that either. Not unless there is some major FES breakthrough that goes viral. Or at least a fake video that goes viral.

Quote from: The Knowledge on December 23, 2011, 03:52:29 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 23, 2011, 02:35:28 PM

Just because you like to think this site is a big joke doesn't mean it is. Daniel wouldn't publicly humiliate and socially outcast himself just for lulz. In case you didn't know, Daniel has done plenty of real world interviews. People know he believes the Earth is flat.

You are just like every other angry noob here that just doesn't get it, so they make up their own reason why this site is here.

Oh yeah? There's more evidence that I'm right than there is that the earth is flat. You can't prove this site isn't simply a social experiment into emergent behaviour. Plus, a whole lot of people make up wild ideas just to get their names in the papers.
Anyone who's seen the show Lost: think of the Pearl Station.

"I have lots of evidence this is a social experiment"
>reference television show
>you can't prove something doesn't exist

Nice evidence.

I'm going to spell it out to you because it went over your head: the comparison of my evidence of a social experiment with your evidence of a flat earth was meant to be an ironic joke about absence of evidence as well as a serious suggestion. That's why I made that comparison. Wake up, pinhead.
You also fail to see the irony in saying I can't possibly be correct and you take Daniel's motives at face value, whilst rubbishing RE'ers for believing what they're told by NASA etc. in other threads.
It amuses me how angry you guys are getting because deep down, you know there's a chance I might be right. Do you think your attitude is going to attract new people to want to post here?

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 23, 2011, 05:22:07 PM

Quote from: The Knowledge on December 23, 2011, 03:52:29 PM

Quote from: EnglshGentleman on December 23, 2011, 02:35:28 PM

Just because you like to think this site is a big joke doesn't mean it is. Daniel wouldn't publicly humiliate and socially outcast himself just for lulz. In case you didn't know, Daniel has done plenty of real world interviews. People know he believes the Earth is flat.

You are just like every other angry noob here that just doesn't get it, so they make up their own reason why this site is here.

Oh yeah? There's more evidence that I'm right than there is that the earth is flat. You can't prove this site isn't simply a social experiment into emergent behaviour. Plus, a whole lot of people make up wild ideas just to get their names in the papers.
Anyone who's seen the show Lost: think of the Pearl Station.

"I have lots of evidence this is a social experiment"
>reference television show
>you can't prove something doesn't exist

Nice evidence.

I'm going to spell it out to you because it went over your head: the comparison of my evidence of a social experiment with your evidence of a flat earth was meant to be an ironic joke about absence of evidence as well as a serious suggestion. That's why I made that comparison. Wake up, pinhead.
You also fail to see the irony in saying I can't possibly be correct and you take Daniel's motives at face value, whilst rubbishing RE'ers for believing what they're told by NASA etc. in other threads.

That would be hypocrisy, not irony I think.

It amuses me how angry you guys are getting because deep down, you know there's a chance I might be right. Do you think your attitude is going to attract new people to want to post here?

Didn't you say your goal was to warn people away from this site?

Didn't you say your goal was to warn people away from this site?

Irrelevant. The rest of you want people to stay to help you troll, and you want fresh meat to come to be trolled.
Do you really think getting on your high horse about why Daniel hosts this site will help that? I personally don't care what happens to it.
I keep seeing the constant use of the phrase "angry noobs" to describe people like myself, Clocktower, and anyone else who makes good arguments against FET. We are neither noobs, nor particularly angry (well maybe Clocktower is).
The regulars are leaving because people like us have got so good at countering almost any FE argument you care to throw at us that the trolling simply doesn't succeed enough to make it worthwhile bashing away at it.
And before anyone accuses me of having my head up my arse, prove that the majority of FE'ers aren't trolls, and prove that Daniel isn't just setting up this site to see what maggots germinate in here for his own amusement, and prove that my opinions are in any way less valid than your own.
You can't, so put a sock in it. Merry Christmas.

nor particularly angry

The rest of your post begs to differ.

Personally, I don't think that the problem is with Dainiel's leadership or lack thereof.   I don't see how anyone is going to take FES and FET seriously until FE'ers start taking FES and FET seriously.

@ the ever-increasingly ironically named user known as "The Knowledge":

It's utterly amazing to me that with your five months of active experience on these forums you think you understand them better than the (many) intelligent people who have been here for years.

The thought has crossed my mind that Daniel started this site as a social experiment.  It's likely crossed most of our minds.  I'm sure there are other users who have come to this conclusion, and I'll be the first to admit that we can only guess at what Daniel had in mind when he started this site.  In a way, that's part of its allure.  I don't know if Daniel really believes the Earth is flat and I really don't care, because it's irrelevant.

Yes, this site has its share of trolls.  Let's get that out of the way.  Most of them manage to advertise it sooner or later (or, as is the case with Crusty, nearly every post).

For most of us, this site isn't about trolling.  It's about debate.  There's a lot of honest debate that goes on here, even if it is in favor of a seemingly indefensible position.  That's the attraction of it.  Some people really just enjoy arguing in favor of something they don't really believe, for the intellectual thrill of it. 

Understand, that is not trolling.  The FET forums are exactly what they advertise themselves to be (one of the reasons I doubt any ulterior motives on Daniel's part in the creation of this site).  We tell you this is going to happen on the front page.

Flat Earth Debate

This board is reserved for debates on Flat Earth Theory.

We do get many reasonable people who understand this concept, and actively try to engage us in intelligent debate (as much as it pains me to say this, Clocktower actually falls into this category most of the time).

And then we get the angry noobs, like you, who for some reason seem to see (or represent yourselves to see) this site as some kind of threat, and instead of engaging in legitimate debate, mostly rant about how none of us really believe what we're arguing.

Who's the troll?

I'm troll

Yes.

Well, now that I got that out of my system, I guess it wouldn't hurt to point out that I do miss the days when this site was more thriving.  It's not what it used to be, that's for sure.

But I don't think people like The Knowledge or Clocktower have anything to do with it.  Sooner or later people just get bored, and there just hasn't been enough new people to fill in the gaps.

Maybe some of the more experienced editors (not me) should become mods and some of the mods could become admins.

Also, why the hell are you guys arguing with Knowledge about why the site exists? I personally cannot think of a reason to give a flying **** about what he thinks.

The Knowledge is the test that London Taxi drivers have to take before they can become London Taxi drivers. And that is after three years of study.

The Knowledge is the test that London Taxi drivers have to take before they can become London Taxi drivers. And that is after three years of study.

@ London Taxi drivers ... SAT NAV.

Yes.

Well, now that I got that out of my system, I guess it wouldn't hurt to point out that I do miss the days when this site was more thriving.  It's not what it used to be, that's for sure.

But I don't think people like The Knowledge or Clocktower have anything to do with it.  Sooner or later people just get bored, and there just hasn't been enough new people to fill in the gaps.

I think it is more because it was made too exclusive. People like Wilmore came to the site as RErs but were welcomed by existing members and allowed to be FEBs and develop theories etc etc. Then those who were 'in' decided to exclude and distance themselves from anyone else who was new. James and Ichi could make theories about almost anything. Anyone else who tried got called for trolling. There was a race to the bottom or moonshramping. The hint wasn't taken. The old boys were sure no one else could do as good a job.
People like English, Pizza, Pongo, Crusty myself etc etc were never allowed to be part of the team. We have been called trolls by John Davis and similar for ages, not allowed into the 'club' and despite dwindling numbers remained excluded. Whose side are we all on now? Our own. There is no FE team anymore. There are no suitable people to choose as mods, because shown such lack of loyalty from the site, you get a lack of loyalty back. It is very easy to get frustrated when your efforts add up to naught. There was no shortage of new people. FES ignored them all.
I have over 6000 posts, PizzaPlanet has even more. I know how the site works, I know tons of FET, I know all the members, been here ages ... should be an ideal candidate for mod. But I have absolutely no interest in doing anything for this site. I used to 'do my bit' in the upper fora, now I only post when it suits me. If a noob makes a post about Coriolis or something, I'll leave it. Don't welcome them any more, don't give them the answer, couldn't care less if they stay or not. If the guy that owns the site doesn't give a crap, why should I? I would be a terrible mod, because I only post for me nowadays and feel no sense of loyalty. I'd just ban people I don't like because the site's well being is low down on my priority list.
Bad attitude? Yep.
But its not because new people didn't come to fill the roles. Its because they were all pushed to one side.

And they took away the hot-water machine. That was when it really went down hill. Also when they started charging for the condiments like the Tomato Sauce and the Salad Cream. And why do they insist on having plastic cutlery at the weekends? Surely it's more economical to have metal ones and just wash them along with the rest during the week.

When will this madness end?

What the heck is 'Salad Cream?'

This site is still entertaining, guys.  I just don't see the need for this Daniel bashing.

As for Daniel's motives for setting up the FES, maybe as I was, he was attracted by the history and the characters of the more modern flat earth movement and chose to memorialize it and them.  Maybe not but whatever the motive and whatever the intended and the unintented by-products, he has been successful.

What the heck is 'Salad Cream?'

It's a general anesthetic used in brain salad surgery.

Ah.

Gayer has not been very active in the number game this month and as a result this month has several thousand less posts than normal. 

Gayer has not been very active in the number game this month and as a result this month has several thousand less posts than normal. 

Sadly true.

And might I suggest to the ambitious that they try again and find a niche that isn't already occupied.

What the heck is 'Salad Cream?'

Basically poor mayo with vinegar.

What the heck is 'Salad Cream?'

It's cream you put on a salad after tossing it.

Personally, I don't think that the problem is with Dainiel's leadership or lack thereof.

At least we'd see you de-modded by now if someone was actually running this place. That would be a decent start.

I don't understand why people get so butthurt over what happens on this site.

I don't understand why people get so butthurt over what happens on this site.

That's likely because you're deeply convinced FE'ers don't exist.