When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?

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bullhorn

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« on: September 25, 2006, 06:00:26 PM »
You can extract hydrogen from water using electrolysis, It is my hope that in the next 10-20 years it will be possible to fill your gas tank with water and the engine will convert the water to its by-products and then you will be able to burn the hydrogen right there.  This is entirely possible and my hope is that it will happen very soon, how do you guys feel about this?

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006, 06:04:11 PM »
I've heard about a working model of a water-powered car (saw the story on the news or something).
ooyakasha!

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2006, 06:04:19 PM »
Wouldn't water become pretty expensive then?

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dysfunction

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 06:11:50 PM »
Wow this sounds great! No harmful emissions! Except guess what you need to get hydrogen from water? Electricity! Guess what we use to make electricity? Fossil fuels. Of course, if we converted to clean energy sources, this wouldn't be a problem.
the cake is a lie

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 06:12:59 PM »
A friend of mine had a crude design (that he made himself) for a solar powered hydrogen car.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 06:19:04 PM »
I read about these things. Personally, I like the idea of hyrogen cell cars, or the vehicle you just mentioned. It would produce only water vapour as emissions.
Taking cars off the road would cut fully 3/4 of city pollution out completely. But the problem is, like alternatives to oil, it's controlled by big business, and there is no reason for them to do that, they'd lose money.

There's your conspiracy, oil barons and car companies, a match made in hell.

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 06:20:50 PM »
Quote from: "Ashantai"

Taking cars off the road would cut fully 3/4 of city pollution out completely.

There are also people who need to use those cars.

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beast

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 10:05:16 PM »
Really?  I thought people just drove for the fun of it.  :?

If we spent enough resources on puplic transport I think we could drastically reduce the amount of cars on the roads saving us billions of dollars as well as helping the environment.  Of course because we live in a capitalist society, this is only going to happen when the petrol price goes up too high.  We can't expect our politicians to make long term investments that will benifit future generations - only investments that will help them win there next election.  :x

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TheEngineer

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 10:54:19 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Really?  I thought people just drove for the fun of it.  :?

I do.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2006, 08:30:22 AM »
Beast, people who live in rural areas need cars to get their groceries, go to work, and a ton of other things.  Public transportation may work in the city, but it wouldn't work where I live and it wouldn't work in all the other rural areas.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
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MaDeR

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2006, 08:55:05 AM »
Quote from: "Ashantai"
There's your conspiracy, oil barons and car companies, a match made in hell.

I agree. Everyone knows that wonders of combustion engine has been locked in safes of donkey owners, horse barons and hackney corporations. No ever light bulb is known due to ungodly actions of  gas companies. No machine is used because luddists won long, long ago...
ne side: hundreds years, hundred thousand sciencist looking for way to know Reality.
Second side: bunch of fudamentalist freaks waving their Holy Books.
Choose.

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Erasmus

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 10:17:46 AM »
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
Beast, people who live in rural areas need cars to get their groceries, go to work, and a ton of other things.


How did people in rural areas survive before the invention of the automobile?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2006, 10:46:37 AM »
They survived by having their own small farms and hunting more, I'm guessing.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2006, 11:01:22 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
Beast, people who live in rural areas need cars to get their groceries, go to work, and a ton of other things.


How did people in rural areas survive before the invention of the automobile?


Hunting dinosaurs.

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Erasmus

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 01:16:09 PM »
Right, and, when they wanted to go someplace, they went on foot or by horse.  They don't need cars.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2006, 01:37:54 PM »
But it is highly impractical to go somewhere that is a good distance away on by foot or horse when you have to be at work the next day.

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Erasmus

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2006, 01:43:08 PM »
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
But it is highly impractical to go somewhere that is a good distance away on by foot or horse when you have to be at work the next day.


Right, so most of their trips were either to nearby destinations or took more than one day.  And while you were away your eldest son would take charge of the farm, or whatever.  What's the big deal?
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2006, 01:51:36 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
What's the big deal?


The big deal is the fact that our society is used to having it easy.  You can't eat steak all your life and then all the sudden start having Spam instead.
ooyakasha!

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Erasmus

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2006, 02:09:40 PM »
Quote from: "Knight"
The big deal is the fact that our society is used to having it easy.  You can't eat steak all your life and then all the sudden start having Spam instead.


No, not unless it's required of you.  I agree that a gradual, comfortable movement to a more traditional society is not likely, since compared to what we have today, there's nothing comfortable about traditional society.

However I  often wonder if such a move would not leave us better off in the end.  Most of my friends agree that most streets in downtown Vancouver should be off limits to cars.  My initial impression is that I would love to see private transportation limited to bicycles and horses.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2006, 02:19:32 PM »
I see no reason to do away with cars.  Instead, make them more efficient and environment friendly.  There is no reason to go backwards.

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

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Erasmus

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2006, 02:51:52 PM »
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
I see no reason to do away with cars.  Instead, make them more efficient and environment friendly.  There is no reason to go backwards.


Aside from the fact that it's easier to do away with them than to make them more environmentally friendly (not for technical reasons, you understand, but for political ones), cars are also dangerous.

Note I'm not advocating complete abandonment of cars -- just their prohibition in inner cities.  I fully recognize their use in long-distance travel.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2006, 05:53:09 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Note I'm not advocating complete abandonment of cars -- just their prohibition in inner cities.


That's an interesting idea.  I guess it would take some research to figure out where the bulk of accidents occur, but the abolishment of inner-city driving might prove useful.  I think some cities (or at least one that I think I read about once) have already instituted this rule.
ooyakasha!

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2006, 07:29:25 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
But it is highly impractical to go somewhere that is a good distance away on by foot or horse when you have to be at work the next day.


Right, so most of their trips were either to nearby destinations or took more than one day.  And while you were away your eldest son would take charge of the farm, or whatever.  What's the big deal?


Look at the population back when people traveled mostly by muscle power.

The farm land that I live on has been subdivided dozens of times, The next hill over is soon going to be covered by 240 McMansions, each with an eigth of an acre or so of land.  

Decrease our population back to early 1900s and we can return in part to a farming life.  Then again, how much of the technology developed since then are you willing to give up?  Who will maintain it?  Most Tech companies have moved out of the cities for cheaper land.  There's not enough people living near by to keep them running.

I work 20 miles from home in the main offices of a large convienence store chain, trying to keep their software running.  If I have to farm my land to survive, I can't pay for my mortgage so I will have to sell my land, so I can't farm it...

Things could be changed, but it would be painful and a lot of people would have to sacrifice a whole lot.  Who's first?

And look at the poverty of the "Good old Days", our percentage of below poverty is lower, and our standard is much higher.

I know you're not really advocating a return to the 1800s, but we live in a society that has developed with the automobile, It would take considerable effort to wean ourselves.

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2006, 11:54:49 AM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
I see no reason to do away with cars.  Instead, make them more efficient and environment friendly.  There is no reason to go backwards.


Aside from the fact that it's easier to do away with them than to make them more environmentally friendly (not for technical reasons, you understand, but for political ones), cars are also dangerous.

Note I'm not advocating complete abandonment of cars -- just their prohibition in inner cities.  I fully recognize their use in long-distance travel.

Are you saying we should outlaw everything that can be considered dangerous?

Quote from: Commander Taggart
Never give up, never surrender!

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Erasmus

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2006, 12:03:40 PM »
Quote from: "cadmium_blimp"
Are you saying we should outlaw everything that can be considered dangerous?


That's pretty weak, man.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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cadmium_blimp

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2006, 12:04:49 PM »
Uh...yeah.   :cry:

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skeptical scientist

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Re: When do you think we will be able to run a car off of wa
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2006, 11:41:42 AM »
Quote from: "bullhorn"
You can extract hydrogen from water using electrolysis, It is my hope that in the next 10-20 years it will be possible to fill your gas tank with water and the engine will convert the water to its by-products and then you will be able to burn the hydrogen right there.  This is entirely possible and my hope is that it will happen very soon, how do you guys feel about this?


So you think we will be able to fill our tanks with water, convert it into hydrogen+oxygen, then back into water, and somehow extract energy from this process? In the next 20 years? Conservation of energy suggests that this is unlikely.

If you think that the cars will get power from someplace else, and simply convert water back and forth between water and hydrogen+oxygen to store power, this is more believable. But then you really aren't running your car off of water. You're running it off of electricity, or some other form of energy. You just use water as temporary energy storage.

David
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E pur si muove!

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2006, 11:50:07 AM »
Quote from: "Ashantai"
I read about these things. Personally, I like the idea of hyrogen cell cars, or the vehicle you just mentioned. It would produce only water vapour as emissions.
Taking cars off the road would cut fully 3/4 of city pollution out completely. But the problem is, like alternatives to oil, it's controlled by big business, and there is no reason for them to do that, they'd lose money.

There's your conspiracy, oil barons and car companies, a match made in hell.


Simply disgusting.

Unfounded claims and internet conspiracy hysteria...halleluja.

Oil companies can snap to natural gas, hydrogen, or anything else ASAP.  They can't slow down alternative energy.  You're under the impression that some of these ideas are better than oil right now.  Do you know why oil is used?  It is used because it is the most efficient and cleanest energy source we have.  It is also the most profitable which helps the economy.  And that's actually a good thing!

Oil is very expensive to produce, however.  If an alternative energy source pops up that is not as expensive to produce, you can bet most of these energy companies will switch in a second.  "Grow, change, or die" is basically a law of business, people!
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Erasmus

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When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2006, 12:17:50 PM »
Quote from: "Mephistopheles"
Do you know why oil is used?  It is used because it is the most efficient and cleanest energy source we have.


Explain.  Especially, compare to nuclear power.

Quote
"Grow, change, or die" is basically a law of business, people!


Another important law of business: don't abandon your multi-billion dollar investments in the form of drilling rights and equipment.

Another important law of business: if you've cornered the market, holding the corner is easier than moving to a new corner.

Another important law of business: competition, while great for the market, is bad for the guy who has cornered the market.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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RenaissanceMan

When do you think we will be able to run a car off of water?
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2006, 12:46:56 PM »
Quote from: "Knight"
I've heard about a working model of a water-powered car (saw the story on the news or something).


I saw that... too bad it was pretty much bullshit. The car wasn't running on water... it was running on gasoline with a hydrogen injection system powered by electrolysis. It looked very Rube Goldburg.

Anyway, as commented earlier, you can't convert water to a gas, burn the gas (converting it back to water) and get more energy than converting the water cost you.

There are chemical reactions that do net positive energy that can be used to drive light weight engines. Gasoline (Petrol to some of you.) is the current king, it's efficient and fairly safe (I bet a varient of trinitrotoluene in a solvent would be more powerful... but much less safe.)

My prediction for the future of automobiles? Hybrids with electric / diesel engines... with the diesel component being completely computer controlled (Even valve timing, with linear actuators instead of a camshaft) and running on bio-diesel fuel.