Net Neutrality

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Trekky0623

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Net Neutrality
« on: November 10, 2011, 11:56:12 AM »
So does anyone here disagree with net neutrality? If so I'd like to hear that opinion, because it seems people are calling net neutrality "censorship" in the right-wing media, which I just don't understand. I could understand arguments like that ISPs have the right to control access, etc, but to say that net neutrality is censorship just sounds crazy to me.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 12:17:44 PM »
So... they're calling a principle that directly implies the lack of censorship... censorship?
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Trekky0623

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 12:27:29 PM »
So... they're calling a principle that directly implies the lack of censorship... censorship?

http://minnesotaindependent.com/57830/bachmann-net-neutrality-is-censorship

Quote from: Michelle Bachmann
So whether they’re attacking conservative talk radio, or conservative TV or whether it’s Internet sites, I mean, let’s face it, what’s the Obama administration doing? They’re advocating net neutrality which is essentially censorship of the Internet. This is the Obama administration advocating censorship of the Internet. Why? They want to silence the voices that are opposing them. Despite the fact that they continue to have much of the mainstream media still providing cover for all of these dramatic efforts that the Obama administration is taking. So they’re very specifically and pointedly going after voices that they see are effectively telling the truth about what the Obama administration is trying to do.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 12:40:37 PM »
I have a theory...

You see, when I opened this thread, I didn't know what "net neutrality" means. Originally, I just made a guess and assumed that this would be an attempt to establish some sort of neutrality (as in political correctness and such) on the Internet - so, essentially, light censorship.
However, I quickly realised that then your question would make no bloody sense, so I googled the term and found out what it means.

Perhaps Madam Bachmann encountered a similar problem, but didn't handle it as well as I did?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 01:16:57 PM by PizzaPlanet »
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 12:49:11 PM »
To further support my idea:

Briefly skimming through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality and looking just at key words, the "right" person will notice something like this:

Definitions of network neutrality
  • Absolute non-discrimination (THIS OBVIOUSLY MEANS NO HATING ON THE BLACKS)
  • Limited discrimination without... uhh, some technical term? Gee, I dunno. I didn't bother to look QoS tiering up.
  • Limited discrimination and... something something
...
  • Control of data

It's incredibly easy to assume that this is about censorship if you have no clue what you're talking about.
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EnigmaZV

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2011, 01:25:07 PM »
I'd like to hear Bachmann explain how net neutrality censors the internet.
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 01:51:24 PM »
I've found one explanation that claims net neutrality stops ISPs from preventing hacking attacks, thus enabling evil people to "censor" the Internet.
Granted, ISPs don't prevent hacking attacks either way, but hey!
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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 02:32:54 PM »
This is purely a smear campaign to allow ISPs to milk money from both services like Facebook and Netflix as well as from the User (more $$$ for that Netflix service).  It also let's them do whatever the fuck they want with competition online.

So got Time Warner?  www.verizon.com just won't come up very quickly. 

And please, it's not like they can't throttle bandwidth globally.  That's acceptable when someone goes above their allocated limit (as specified in their contract) but it's not like the ISPs can't throttle their customers to keep a consistent level of service when there's a lot of data flowing.


On the plus side, the US Senate and Obama have killed the Anti-Net Neutrality bill in congress.  So yay!
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 02:37:08 PM »
In other words:






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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 03:04:29 PM »
More like Obama is a Democrat and All Democrats are against any law prohibiting Net Neutrality.
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/10/142213971/senate-halts-gop-bid-to-repeal-net-neutrality-rules

Seems like it was split down party lines.  Not surprising.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 03:12:34 PM »
In other words:







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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 03:16:36 PM »
Yes.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.


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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2011, 05:14:36 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority on this.  I'd rather not have the gummint's gummy fingers involved. 

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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2011, 07:44:59 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority on this.  I'd rather not have the gummint's gummy fingers involved.

Well in theory...

If the Government is run by Lobbiests and the Lobbiests are run by Big Businesses then logically Big Business runs the Government, which is exactly what would happen if the Government didn't do as much.

So we're damned if we do, damned if we don't.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2011, 04:01:12 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority on this.  I'd rather not have the gummint's gummy fingers involved.
So you'd rather not have the government explicitly state that there can be no censorship going on? Why? Are you interested in being denied service online?
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2011, 06:18:40 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority on this.  I'd rather not have the gummint's gummy fingers involved.
So you'd rather not have the government explicitly state that there can be no censorship going on? Why? Are you interested in being denied service online?

Lol.  I'd rather not have my government granted regulatory power and using Doublespeak to define things for me.   You, of course, can disagree with me because I have no power to force you nor do I even want to.  I kinda like it that way.


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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2011, 06:27:56 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority on this.  I'd rather not have the gummint's gummy fingers involved.
So you'd rather not have the government explicitly state that there can be no censorship going on? Why? Are you interested in being denied service online?

Lol.  I'd rather not have my government granted regulatory power and using Doublespeak to define things for me.   You, of course, can disagree with me because I have no power to force you nor do I even want to.  I kinda like it that way.
So pollution, child labor, minimum wage, safe food and drugs... are things you feel the Government shouldn't do anything about?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 06:30:15 AM by Lorddave »
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2011, 07:19:03 AM »
We are discussing the net neutrality issue in case you missed it but now that you mention it, I'd rather have minimum wage set by the states.

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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2011, 07:41:49 AM »
We are discussing the net neutrality issue in case you missed it but now that you mention it, I'd rather have minimum wage set by the states.
I didn't, I'm just pointing out that government regulations aren't all bad. Some are even beneficial especially when a company can and will screw over people for a profit.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2011, 08:00:52 AM »
The FCC has a long history of deciding what's good for us to hear and see.  Do you really think they will suddenly go out of the censorship business and into the free speech business?  I'm all for freedom on the net which is why I don't want to hand the power of decision over to the FCC. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 08:05:00 AM by Mrs. Peach »

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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 08:16:40 AM »
The FCC has a long history of deciding what's good for us to hear and see.  Do you really think they will suddenly go out of the censorship business and into the free speech business?  I'm all for freedom on the net which is why I don't want to hand the power of decision over to the FCC.

So you want to hand the power over to the companies who want to restrict it?  They've specifically said they want to restrict traffic.  They want to throttle Torrents down to almost nothing to help prevent music and video piracy, they will likely block competitor websites, AND charge you a fee for having faster services for specific items like Netflix. 

The FCC isn't very restrictive.  The worse they do is keep swear words from going on TV and radio.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 08:49:14 AM »
Companies already have that right.  Free competition is the antidote if people want a change.

If (if) the FCC isn't very restrictive, it's only because of past battles fought and won.  You may say, "Oh well, that won't happen this time.  They've promised forbearance."  Lots of luck with that one.


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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2011, 08:57:41 AM »
Companies already have that right.  Free competition is the antidote if people want a change.

If (if) the FCC isn't very restrictive, it's only because of past battles fought and won.  You may say, "Oh well, that won't happen this time.  They've promised forbearance."  Lots of luck with that one.

The problem is that you, the customer, have no control over where stuff goes after it goes past your ISP.

You could have an ISP that does not restrict bit torrent access but the next ISP in the data route does. 

And no, companies do not already have that right.  The FCC is hammering them when they're found to do it and the government is currently trying to decide if the FCC should have any actual power to fine the ISPs or not.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2011, 09:00:16 AM »
Just how long do you imagine it will take for the FCC to come up with a copyright filter?

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Lorddave

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2011, 09:23:01 AM »
Just how long do you imagine it will take for the FCC to come up with a copyright filter?
Never.
Youtube already has one. 

Plus they don't regulate copyrights.  They regulate content to the public.  In this case they're trying to keep data traffic fair.
It's no different then them regulating radio signals.  If a radio station wanted to they could increase their range and overpower many other radio stations, making them one of the few radio stations that anyone can listen to.  The FCC keeps that from happening.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2011, 10:39:20 AM »
How long for a decency filter?  How about a PC filter?  How long for a 'national security' filter?  There are already clamourings for hate content filters.  Yeah, the FCC does some agreeable things.  But then there was that time when they decided to 'balance' airwave licenses according to how they defined one's politics. Giving this power away on a government 'promise' doesn't suit me.  Surely you'll allow me my opinion?


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theonlydann

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2011, 11:57:09 AM »
Meh. ISPs should be allowed to do whatever they want.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2011, 12:10:08 PM »
How long for a decency filter?  How about a PC filter?  How long for a 'national security' filter?  There are already clamourings for hate content filters. [...] Surely you'll allow me my opinion?
The things you've just asked about go directly against the concept of net neutrality. Making net neutrality the law would make all sorts of filters illegal.

Mrs. Peach, I have to ask: Do you actually know what "net neutrality" means? Of course, you have the right to your own opinion, but it's good to build that opinion on facts.
Like I've admitted, I didn't know what it is before I looked it up - the term has an ambiguous sound to it.

EDIT: Oh, and while you do have the right to your opinion, you're stating it on a discussion forum. Please don't be offended if someone discusses your views with you.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 12:15:57 PM by PizzaPlanet »
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