There are no real believers.

As I've said in many other threads the site is basically fake and all the people who defend the Flat Earth Society are people who don't even believe it. They do it for the fun of debate and the kicks. Not one person will post their identity, phone number and address and claim to support a flat earth.

Nice try though.

People turn up at this web site furious. Their rage knows no limit. They are shaking with anger that someone might suggest the earth may not be round.

Would you give these people your telephone number and address?

Many people here both RErs and FErs know each other on FB, google+, post images of themselves, email and irc one another. Its not a question of anonymity to distance yourself from the stupid, its about distancing yourself from a furious noob with a iron bar and an argument to settle.

And personally I don't mind if 99.9% of people are just here for the sport of it. Its all in good fun I believe.

As I've said in many other threads the site is basically fake and all the people who defend the Flat Earth Society are people who don't even believe it. They do it for the fun of debate and the kicks. Not one person will post their identity, phone number and address and claim to support a flat earth.

Nice try though.

I'm located in Knoxville, TN.  You are welcome to attend our next meeting, which is tentatively scheduled for early next year.  My name is obvious and I have conducted many and discussed this online and in person with just about everyone I know well.  I can also help you located a flat earth group near you, if this would be easier for you.

D/O/B, SSN, mother's maiden name... REAVEAL YOURSELVES FE'ERS

D/O/B, SSN, mother's maiden name... REAVEAL YOURSELVES FE'ERS

Please do not request or post personal information on a public forum.

HAHAHA, they can't even own up to it! Pathetic.

The birthers have arrived.

I secretly do not exist. I am sorry for deceiving you all as to such. When I have collected my thoughts and stopped crying tears of shame I will post my official apology in the lounge.

As I've said in many other threads the site is basically fake and all the people who defend the Flat Earth Society are people who don't even believe it. They do it for the fun of debate and the kicks. Not one person will post their identity, phone number and address and claim to support a flat earth.

Nice try though.

I think most of them do believe it.  The FES has been around since the 1800's, when a con-man named Samuel Rowbotham claimed that the Bible and common sense proves that the earth is flat.  He used skewed results of scientific studies and spread a bunch of misinformation, and people bought it.  Later in life, he claimed he could prolong human life and started selling fake medicine that he claimed could cure anything. 

I think these people subconsciously know better.  I don't think any reasoning human being with an IQ above 10 could look at a picture of the Earth and say, "yep, that's flat!"  But I do think... for the most part... they believe it.  I think with most people it's a religious thing.  They think if the world is round, it disproves God.  But, it doesn't really.  There are a whole lot of reasons why God doesn't exist... not just a flat earth.  God (or just the attention one gets for holding a fringe belief) has to be the only thing that convince people to ignore modern science in favor or millenia-aged theories that have long-since been disproven.

Quote from: LinearPlane on November 10, 2011, 10:38:48 AM

As I've said in many other threads the site is basically fake and all the people who defend the Flat Earth Society are people who don't even believe it. They do it for the fun of debate and the kicks. Not one person will post their identity, phone number and address and claim to support a flat earth.

Nice try though.

I think most of them do believe it.  The FES has been around since the 1800's, when a con-man named Samuel Rowbotham claimed that the Bible and common sense proves that the earth is flat.  He used skewed results of scientific studies and spread a bunch of misinformation, and people bought it.  Later in life, he claimed he could prolong human life and started selling fake medicine that he claimed could cure anything. 

I think these people subconsciously know better.  I don't think any reasoning human being with an IQ above 10 could look at a picture of the Earth and say, "yep, that's flat!"  But I do think... for the most part... they believe it.  I think with most people it's a religious thing.  They think if the world is round, it disproves God.  But, it doesn't really.  There are a whole lot of reasons why God doesn't exist... not just a flat earth.  God (or just the attention one gets for holding a fringe belief) has to be the only thing that convince people to ignore modern science in favor or millenia-aged theories that have long-since been disproven.

Most FE advocates are atheist.  Its the obvious and deliberated truth which compels belief these days.  The four corners of the earth and whether theres an up to ascend into is pretty much beyond discussion here.

Having been here long enough to graduate from the upper forums I can say that some believe it. In a world as large as ours, there are bound to be people who believe the most absurd and impossible things.
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

Some believe that they are demi-gods. Some the reincarnation of Elvis.

Humans are also very good at patterns. They can create patterns out of anything without realizing it. Clouds are a great example. We see shapes and images in clouds yet they're random collections of dust and moisture. No patterns there.

So to some, all the data of the Earth leads them to the conclusion that it's flat. Everything else is just to solidify that viewpoint.

Most FE advocates are atheist.  Its the obvious and deliberated truth which compels belief these days.  The four corners of the earth and whether theres an up to ascend into is pretty much beyond discussion here.

Can you source that?  The whole thing about most FE'ers being atheist?  I'm not saying you're lying... I would just... in this particular case I'm wondering if you can source it.

"Bible, alongside our senses, supported the idea that the earth was flat and immovable and this essential truth should not be set aside for a system based solely on human conjecture" -Sam Rowbotham

"If the Earth is globe, you can throw out your Bible." -Sam Rowbotham

So, he's saying that the Bible and common sense is more important than science.  Then, he's using religion as his reasoning for keeping Flat-Earth alive.

Religion.

Quote from: Archibald on November 15, 2011, 10:17:06 AM

Most FE advocates are atheist.  Its the obvious and deliberated truth which compels belief these days.  The four corners of the earth and whether theres an up to ascend into is pretty much beyond discussion here.

Can you source that?  The whole thing about most FE'ers being atheist?  I'm not saying you're lying... I would just... in this particular case I'm wondering if you can source it.

"Bible, alongside our senses, supported the idea that the earth was flat and immovable and this essential truth should not be set aside for a system based solely on human conjecture" -Sam Rowbotham

"If the Earth is globe, you can throw out your Bible." -Sam Rowbotham

So, he's saying that the Bible and common sense is more important than science.  Then, he's using religion as his reasoning for keeping Flat-Earth alive.

Religion.

One person, albeit a prominent and influential FE advocate does not constitute all FE advocates.  More media tactics, this seems to be a habit for you krista.  As for your source, ask FE people, im certain the results will be favorable to my deductions.

One person, albeit a prominent and influential FE advocate does not constitute all FE advocates.  More media tactics, this seems to be a habit for you krista.  As for your source, ask FE people, im certain the results will be favorable to my deductions.

He's the backbone of the modern FE movement.  His work, Earth Not a Globe is the FE Manifesto.  It would be like, if Charles Darwin was a Satanist.  It would totally discount his motivation behind his theory.  Granted... it doesn't discount the FE theory any more than Rush Limbaugh abusing Oxycontin discounts conservatism.  And like I said to you in another post; nobody can generalize a group of people under any one umbrella.  But, the main question that skeptics tend to ask is, "why do believers believe?"  Especially on a fringe subject such as this one... if science and conventional wisdom tells us the world is round, what is to be gained by proving that it's flat?  In this case, I think a big part of it is religion.  And, I also think that a lot of FE'ers would claim they are NOT religious in an attempt to keep people from unveiling their motivations.  But, I will say that... most of the English-speaking world is religious.  If not Christian, then probably Muslim or Jewish (which all follow Genesis).  Statistically, most FE'ers would, by a probability, be religious.

While I'm at it thought... just wondering... are you religious?

Quote from: Archibald on November 15, 2011, 10:49:03 AM

One person, albeit a prominent and influential FE advocate does not constitute all FE advocates.  More media tactics, this seems to be a habit for you krista.  As for your source, ask FE people, im certain the results will be favorable to my deductions.

He's the backbone of the modern FE movement.  His work, Earth Not a Globe is the FE Manifesto.  It would be like, if Charles Darwin was a Satanist.  It would totally discount his motivation behind his theory.  Granted... it doesn't discount the FE theory any more than Rush Limbaugh abusing Oxycontin discounts conservatism.  And like I said to you in another post; nobody can generalize a group of people under any one umbrella.  But, the main question that skeptics tend to ask is, "why do believers believe?"  Especially on a fringe subject such as this one... if science and conventional wisdom tells us the world is round, what is to be gained by proving that it's flat?  In this case, I think a big part of it is religion.  And, I also think that a lot of FE'ers would claim they are NOT religious in an attempt to keep people from unveiling their motivations.  But, I will say that... most of the English-speaking world is religious.  If not Christian, then probably Muslim or Jewish (which all follow Genesis).  Statistically, most FE'ers would, by a probability, be religious.

While I'm at it thought... just wondering... are you religious?

Your analysis on statistical probabilty is off in this case I believe.  Just because the manifesto was based in part by interpreted religious teachings does not mean that it is not subject to change by those who carry the legacy.  This is observed all throughout history.  Somethings have changed so much that their origins are barely recognizable.  Many communists are religious today, yet their manifesto scrictly forbid religion as a way to decrease motivation in society.  I am not religious.  Does this preclude the chances of us getting together for energy drinks and doritos sometime?  I can wear a different shirt to the date.

Actually, most scientists back then were expected to tie religion into their work, particularly if it was of great philosophical importance. Newton used his work in an attempt to justify the existence of God. Copernicus spoke of God in his works and claimed that his work was in agreement with the bible. Galileo taught at a religious college and incorporated religion into his teachings.

Even scientists of more recent times do it. Einstein speaks of God in his writings. Stephen Hawking has regular discussions with the Pope!

So no, a scientist who mentions religion or God is not discrediting. It is only very recently that religion has been equated with ignorance. It used to be that all of the greatest scientists were religious and spoke of various philosophical concepts. They were expected to.

Actually, most scientists back then were expected to tie religion into their work, particularly if it was of great philosophical importance. Newton used his work in an attempt to justify the existence of God. Copernicus spoke of God in his works and claimed that his work was in agreement with the bible. Galileo taught at a religious college and incorporated religion into his teachings.

They were also persiquted as criminals for crimes against god. Because of this they formed the illuminati.

I do agree agree with your facts I am just adding more to the story.

Actually, most scientists back then were expected to tie religion into their work, particularly if it was of great philosophical importance. Newton used his work in an attempt to justify the existence of God. Copernicus spoke of God in his works and claimed that his work was in agreement with the bible. Galileo taught at a religious college and incorporated religion into his teachings.

Even scientists of more recent times do it. Einstein speaks of God in his writings. Stephen Hawking has regular discussions with the Pope!

So no, a scientist who mentions religion or God is not discrediting. It is only very recently that religion has been equated with ignorance. It used to be that all of the greatest scientists were religious and spoke of various philosophical concepts. They were expected to.

Excellent post good fellow, you are truly a benefit to these most excellent fora!

Actually, most scientists back then were expected to tie religion into their work, particularly if it was of great philosophical importance. Newton used his work in an attempt to justify the existence of God. Copernicus spoke of God in his works and claimed that his work was in agreement with the bible. Galileo taught at a religious college and incorporated religion into his teachings.

Even scientists of more recent times do it. Einstein speaks of God in his writings. Stephen Hawking has regular discussions with the Pope!

So no, a scientist who mentions religion or God is not discrediting. It is only very recently that religion has been equated with ignorance. It used to be that all of the greatest scientists were religious and spoke of various philosophical concepts. They were expected to.

Albert Einstein's religious views were abstract at best, but was mainly agnostic and humanist.  He never proved or disproved the existence of God with his science, and he certainly never USED God as a motivation to go against main-stream science to prove a bunch of BS.

Stephen Hawking was a firm believer in the laws of physics.  He admitted that God could have created the physics, but has no bearing on everyday events.  In fact, in 2010, he was quoted as saying "There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, [and] science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works."  I'm a staunch anti-theist, and I think a cup of coffee with the pope would be a VERY interesting experience!

None of those guys are Flat Earthers.  So, how does that help you?  Perhaps pre-modern scientists believed in pre-modern truth because they had pre-modern shit to work with.  Osama Bin Laden believed in Gravity.  Okay, what does that prove?  His religious views were all screwed up, but he was spot on with believing that what goes up must come down (no pun intended).

If Newton uses his science to prove the existence of God, his motivation doesn't disprove his science, if it's proven to be real science.  The stuff Newton did was REAL science.  He formed theories that are REAL and still exist today.  If you're a scientist, your motivation doesn't matter if the science is real.  But, if you go around spreading fake junk science like FE Theory, then a big part of discounting misinformation is understanding the reasoning behind it.  The Earth isn't flat.  The big proponents of the modern FE movement (and I continue to believe most of it's current followers) are people who just can't reconcile real science with a big lie that was written over 2,000 years ago... that people KNOW is stupid, but the fear of hell drives them to ignore rational thought and logic.

Quote from: KristaGurl on November 15, 2011, 08:19:41 AM

Quote from: LinearPlane on November 10, 2011, 10:38:48 AM

As I've said in many other threads the site is basically fake and all the people who defend the Flat Earth Society are people who don't even believe it. They do it for the fun of debate and the kicks. Not one person will post their identity, phone number and address and claim to support a flat earth.

Nice try though.

I think most of them do believe it.  The FES has been around since the 1800's, when a con-man named Samuel Rowbotham claimed that the Bible and common sense proves that the earth is flat.  He used skewed results of scientific studies and spread a bunch of misinformation, and people bought it.  Later in life, he claimed he could prolong human life and started selling fake medicine that he claimed could cure anything. 

I think these people subconsciously know better.  I don't think any reasoning human being with an IQ above 10 could look at a picture of the Earth and say, "yep, that's flat!"  But I do think... for the most part... they believe it.  I think with most people it's a religious thing.  They think if the world is round, it disproves God.  But, it doesn't really.  There are a whole lot of reasons why God doesn't exist... not just a flat earth.  God (or just the attention one gets for holding a fringe belief) has to be the only thing that convince people to ignore modern science in favor or millenia-aged theories that have long-since been disproven.

Most FE advocates on this site are atheist. 

Fixed.  Most on this site, not in the world.

Fixed.  Most on this site, not in the world.

I wouldn't even go that far.  I mean, it's law of statistics.  If 80% of the whole is a part of a group, it stands to reason that 80% of a random portion will belong to the same group.  If a VAST majority of the English speaking world is either Catholic, Christian, Jewish or Muslim, why wouldn't you assume most FE'ers (and RE'ers alike) aren't?  That's why I was asking for a source.  Because, I've heard this argument before.  It's in the FAQ:

Paraphrasing:
Q: Aren't FE'ers just religious nuts?
A: No.

Okay, what proof of that do they have?  Has there been a non-biased statistical study of the religious convictions of FE Theorists?  Is there a cited study of this?  Because, it's a documented fact that the early proponents of the modern FE Movement were religious, and promoted the theory in an attempt to prove the existence of God.  If they want me to believe that most FE'ers aren't motivated by a desperate attempt to prove the validity of a fable, they have to do better than, "they're not religious... just trust me."

I agree there are one or two insane people who believe it, but the majority of the people here are people just debating for the fun. If you want to reveal yourself at some meeting by all means make yourself look dumb.

I agree there are one or two insane people who believe it, but the majority of the people here are people just debating for the fun. If you want to reveal yourself at some meeting by all means make yourself look dumb.

I also think some people just like the attention they get from having a fringe belief.

Quote from: John Davis on November 16, 2011, 03:18:54 AM

Fixed.  Most on this site, not in the world.

I wouldn't even go that far.  I mean, it's law of statistics.  If 80% of the whole is a part of a group, it stands to reason that 80% of a random portion will belong to the same group.

Except the portion is not "random"  and this doesn't hold even if it was "random".

  If a VAST majority of the English speaking world is either Catholic, Christian, Jewish or Muslim, why wouldn't you assume most FE'ers (and RE'ers alike) aren't?  That's why I was asking for a source.  Because, I've heard this argument before.  It's in the FAQ:

Paraphrasing:
Q: Aren't FE'ers just religious nuts?
A: No.

Okay, what proof of that do they have?  Has there been a non-biased statistical study of the religious convictions of FE Theorists?  Is there a cited study of this?  Because, it's a documented fact that the early proponents of the modern FE Movement were religious, and promoted the theory in an attempt to prove the existence of God.  If they want me to believe that most FE'ers aren't motivated by a desperate attempt to prove the validity of a fable, they have to do better than, "they're not religious... just trust me."

The opinion  that most FEers today are secular is based off of the belief of those true believers that visit our site.

Except the portion is not "random"  and this doesn't hold even if it was "random".

Yeah, you're right.  This is a group of people who specifically believe in something of which the Bible stands alone as a source of information that some people consider reliable.  Which, actually leads me to believe that FE'ers are more concentrated in religious belief than the general population.

My speculation is that most FE'ers are religious.  So, I'm being told that they're NOT religious.  Okay, so then, religion has nothing to do with Flat Earth, right?  So, why is it important to prove that FE'ers are secular?

The opinion  that most FEers today are secular is based off of the belief of those true believers that visit our site.

Source?  And, please don't tell me "Just ask them."  I don't need to ask them.  I need an unbiased study of the religious leanings of Flat Earth believers.  This is not about me proving to you that they're not secular, this is about you proving to me that they are secular.

I mean, I know it seems I'm arguing in circles.  One minute I say they're religious, then the next I say it doesn't matter.  Whether or not FE'ers are relgious or not has no bearing on the science itself.  Whether or not you believe in God doesn't discount the theory... the lack of science does a fine enough job of that.  The question is, "What is the driving force behind this particular brand of misinformation?"  Holocaust denial is misinformation.  If you get to the root of that particular breed of animal, you find that a common denominator is Neo-Naziism.  The Neo-Naziism provides a motive for misinformation, thus the misinformation can be reasonably denied.  If you look back on the modern Flat-Earth movement, it was comprised and perpetrated by religious nut-jobs who were grasping at straws to prove the world is flat.  It's current believers... well, I can't prove they're religious any more than you can prove they're not.  But, it lends a legitimate possibility.  As I said before, I think it's a combination of religious appologists and people who just want the attention that comes along with believing fringe bullcrap.  Simultaneously, while FE'ers like to claim that RET is a conspiracy that NASA is using to fool us all, nobody can offer any reason why NASA would do that.  Doesn't mean NASA isn't lying to us, but without proof, you're going to have to first explain why NASA would make that up. 

I can explain a VERY good, tangiable reason why FE'ers would spread FE misinformation, but nobody can give me ANY reason why RE'ers would spread RE misinformation.

My speculation is that most FE'ers are religious. 

My speculation is that the most active "FEers" in this forum are actually REers who do this just as mental exercise.

(I am even tempted to join them, as soon as I've fleshed out bendy light and found a workaround on my own objections.)

Note that most "FEers" who post here are not the same that post in (and are allowed to) the "true believers" forum.

I am not religious. I am a deist.

I think it's the height of irony that you would attack the Flat Earth Movement because of its historic association with religion when globularism has it's roots in an ancient number-cult and NASA was founded by an occultist.

I think it's the height of irony that you would attack the Flat Earth Movement because of its historic association with religion when globularism has it's roots in an ancient number-cult and NASA was founded by an occultist.

No, I think it's the lack of unbiased science and the lack of main-stream advocates not motivated by religion... vs. the abundance of unbiased believers in RET... and the pictures and evidence and geometry and math and geography and aviation and... well, common sense.

Who was the occultist?  And what about the Soviet astronauts?  Were they occultists, too?  And the JAEA?  And every country who has a satellite in orbit?  And 99.99999999999% of every scientist on Earth who knows that "globularism (not a word, but cool how you took a word and made it sound like a political movement" is the most fundamental scientific truth in human history? 

...and what the hell is a number cult?