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Some pretty tough questions.

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DarkL

Some pretty tough questions.
« on: September 24, 2006, 07:07:46 PM »
It just seems to me there's some really bad science goin on here. Really.

Haven't you ever seen a bird's-eye view of the Earth? Never been in a helicopter or plane real high up? Guess what the earth looks like: A sphere.

The Antarctic has been crossed from the north to the other side of he globe. To me, this doesn't work out on the disc model. Gimme a diagram here! Also, I'm pretty sure there's been some aerial photos of the Antartic that make your theory sound ridiculous.

There isn't one photo. Not. A. Single. One. Proving that the Earth is flat. Not even a doctored one so I can see what you really think it looks like. The U.N. symbol doesn't count.

Oh...and the government had no reason to cover up a flat earth. And I couldn't begin to make a flat earth look round in a photoshop-type program with a computer several times more advanced than what they had back then?

And we have satellites up there, orbiting what should be a round object. What's that all about, I wonder?
 
No freelance shots of the ice wall? Shame on you.

Oh, yeah. Final nail in the coffin: Go to any harbor. Watch the ships sail, till they go over the horizon, following what must be the curve of the earth.
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CrimsonKing

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2006, 07:46:14 PM »
Quote

Haven't you ever seen a bird's-eye view of the Earth? Never been in a helicopter or plane real high up? Guess what the earth looks like: A sphere.


It has been covered by both sides (RE and FE) that this is not true... at all.

Quote

The Antarctic has been crossed from the north to the other side of he globe. To me, this doesn't work out on the disc model. Gimme a diagram here! Also, I'm pretty sure there's been some aerial photos of the Antartic that make your theory sound ridiculous


This is covered in the theory, basically only govenments in on the conspiracy have enough money essential for this, thus making this not proof.

Quote

There isn't one photo. Not. A. Single. One. Proving that the Earth is flat. Not even a doctored one so I can see what you really think it looks like. The U.N. symbol doesn't count.


I don't own a high altitude spyplane, or anything that flys high enough for that, do you?

Quote

Oh...and the government had no reason to cover up a flat earth. And I couldn't begin to make a flat earth look round in a photoshop-type program with a computer several times more advanced than what they had back then?


Good God, I think I've answered this statement 10,000 times, yes they do, money and power.  As for the statement turned question somehow, well your entire fiscal future doesnt depend on it, and obviously enough, people can be trained better than you are right now.

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And we have satellites up there, orbiting what should be a round object. What's that all about, I wonder?


...Prove it?

Quote

No freelance shots of the ice wall? Shame on you.


Interesting, I woudlnt like to be shot, especially in such a hostile enviroment, how could you proove that is the end of the earth anyway, you could only approach it by boat, it is super-high and super-long... kinda like glaciers are.

Quote

Oh, yeah. Final nail in the coffin: Go to any harbor. Watch the ships sail, till they go over the horizon, following what must be the curve of the earth.


I'm not gonna dignify that with a response its been said so many times.
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dysfunction

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 08:18:11 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"

Quote

Oh, yeah. Final nail in the coffin: Go to any harbor. Watch the ships sail, till they go over the horizon, following what must be the curve of the earth.


I'm not gonna dignify that with a response its been said so many times.


Don't mean to sound like a troll, but all the responses to that question suck.
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Max Fagin

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2006, 08:20:41 PM »
CrimsonKing is right DarkL (I never though I would say that before)

These points are good arguments, but the FE'ers have answers to every one of them.  Not good answers mind you, but answers none the less.

But I can respond directly to one thing you said CrimsonKing.

Quote
Quote:

And we have satellites up there, orbiting what should be a round object. What's that all about, I wonder?


...Prove it?



OK.  As I have said before, you can see satelites from the ground, if you know where and when to look.  Twice, I have had myself and another observer view a satelite from different locations, and compare it's angular altitude at the same time.

Then assuming we know the distance beetween us (We did, it was confirmed by a GPS and a cars trip taker) it was a simple matter to compute the altitude of the thing we were observing.  Between 300 and 400 kilometers.  Exactlly the altitude the NASA tracker said it was, and well outside both RE and FE atmospheres.
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eternitycode

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 12:01:53 AM »
You're all godddamn ridiculous. I don't beleive in FE, but I still had respect for you.

But now? There is none. All of your replies are sarcastic, you pick at such things as Grammatic errors to divert attention from the fact you can't actually give a direct answer, and you're all so damn sarcastic.

Example of an answer:

Quote
Good God, I think I've answered this statement 10,000 times, yes they do, money and power.


Nice. So how exactly do the Government/Illuminati gain money and power from having people beleive the Earth is flat?

How do they gain more money from the beleif of a flat earth?
How do they gain more power from the belief of a flat earth?

What is so special about it that only the Government can know about it?

CrimsonKing
Quote
It has been covered by both sides (RE and FE) that this is not true... at all.


Sorry mate, eat THIS.

Quote
...Prove it?



Quote
I'm not gonna dignify that with a response its been said so many times.


Incorrect. It has been theorised so many times before. And all of these Theories where then challenged and disproved, which then lead you all to have to make up the whole world of Science again. You can't just say "blue light has more energy than red light." a) What is your definition of energy. b) prove it.
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TheEngineer

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 12:10:27 AM »
Quote from: "eternitycode"
You're all godddamn ridiculous. I don't beleive in FE, but I still had respect for you.

But now? There is none. All of your replies are sarcastic, you pick at such things as Grammatic errors to divert attention from the fact you can't actually give a direct answer, and you're all so damn sarcastic.

Example of an answer:

Quote
Good God, I think I've answered this statement 10,000 times, yes they do, money and power.


Nice. So how exactly do the Government/Illuminati gain money and power from having people beleive the Earth is flat?

How do they gain more money from the beleif of a flat earth?
How do they gain more power from the belief of a flat earth?

Umm, they gain money from people believing it is spherical.
Quote

What is so special about it that only the Government can know about it?


They're the government.

Quote
CrimsonKing
Quote
It has been covered by both sides (RE and FE) that this is not true... at all.


Sorry mate, eat THIS.

uh, what?
Quote

Quote
...Prove it?



Quote
I'm not gonna dignify that with a response its been said so many times.


Incorrect. It has been theorised so many times before. And all of these Theories where then challenged and disproved, which then lead you all to have to make up the whole world of Science again. You can't just say "blue light has more energy than red light." a) What is your definition of energy.

What?
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Unimportant

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 02:29:57 AM »
Quote from: "eternitycode"
Quote
I'm not gonna dignify that with a response its been said so many times.


Incorrect. It has been theorised so many times before. And all of these Theories where then challenged and disproved,

If somene has proven that light doesn't refract in the atmosphere, I'd very much like to see that proof.
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DarkL

Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 02:36:00 AM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Umm, they gain money from people believing it is spherical.


No. They don't. Like you guys seem to keep saying: Prove it.

Quote
What is so special about it that only the Government can know about it?


Quite.

Quote
They're the government.


Not an answer.

All I'm saying is, FE theory is much too overcomplicated. You'd have to have the entire universe moving at basically the same speed for gravity to work on Earth, or we'd outrace the sun, and everything else. And the four-elephants-and-turtle theory is just plain ignorant. I don't care what you think of me.

But all right, here's what you need to do: ask these people why they're wasting their money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism#Commercial_space_flights Also...if, like the above posters said, that satellites do indeed orbit the Earth...how do they orbit? Since an orbit, by definition, is a fall, wouldn't they fall back to Earth after the rockets stopped thrusting?

And it appears to me that none of you have taken real action to follow good scientific process and disprove your own theory. Charter a boat or a plane, for crying out loud! It's not THAT hard!

And I would like to see what you really think the Antartic looks like...Gimme a picture.

Oh, yes! Looky, here, another link. This page has another link to watch "Nasa TV", which is LIVE. Depending on the current space mission, you can watch the astronauts, or if the camera's pointed towards Earth, you can watch it rotate. http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/fc/Science/Space_Shuttle/ It looks low-res 'cuz it's the Internet.

I mean, really, how much money can they be making? I've heard that NASA doesn't get as much of the overall goverment spending as we'd like to think, and a lot of their budget goes into rocket fuel.
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Xargo

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 04:09:58 AM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"

If somene has proven that light doesn't refract in the atmosphere, I'd very much like to see that proof.


Prove it does.
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beast

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 04:27:53 AM »
Didn't you say in another topic that you can't prove anything just by what you say?  If that's the case (and you obviously couldn't prove it on the forum because that would contradict your statement) then how do you expect people to prove this to you?  Aren't you contradicting yourself?
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Xargo

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 04:35:55 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
Didn't you say in another topic that you can't prove anything just by what you say?

No.
Quote from: "beast"
 If that's the case (and you obviously couldn't prove it on the forum because that would contradict your statement) then how do you expect people to prove this to you?Aren't you contradicting yourself?

No.
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beast

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2006, 05:12:28 AM »
Quote from: "Xargo"
Quote from: "texta"
Proof: I've been to Sydney and it wasn't upside down.


You cannot prove this by simply saying it.
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eternitycode

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2006, 05:39:16 AM »
How about stop finding faults in the way we type/talk, and find faults in what we beleive to be true.


All RE's come on here, see your ideas, and then what? They (I included) put themselves in your shoes and give it a thoguht, find flaws, discuss, attempt to disprove andm ost of the time attempt to have an adult debate.


What do you do? Pick at our Grammar, pick at our contradictions, but you manage to totally leave out the bit where you think "Hmm, what if?" or "Hmm, good point, however.." So whilst we are sitting here thinking "If that were true, I'd need this for it to be proved", you're sitting there saying "I know this is true, I don't need to prove it."


Despite the fact that I, along with over 6 billion other humans, have been raised by logic and proof to believe the Earth is sperical, and you say you don't need to prove it to us? What is this? Why have a forum with a section dedicated to discussion and debate if you simply read our posts and tell us to prove it, tell us that you 'know' you're right.


You want proof? We've given you proof. Lots of it, more than you need. Your 'proof' relies on Theories you yourselves have created. Proof relies on numbers, it relies on evidence, it relies on solid founding. It cannot be proof if it was is founded upon a Theory, a possibility.


But you know, I've probably made a spelling mistake, I've probably used incorrect Grammar, that makes this whole post wrong.


Oh, and in direct reply (a concept that baffles the most of you) the reason us REs seem to 'contradict' ourselves time and time again is simple:

Us guys are open minded.

We've read your views, explored your views, devoted a bit of ourselves to think "maybe this is true, I'll give these people a chance, and I'll look into it" but then it is after we do that we still get the same ignorance, "Prove it", "I'm not going to dignify that with a response", "You made a spelling mistake, EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS NOW WRONG", that we then decide "You know, to hell with it, here's a piece of my mind. A mind just like yours, a NARROW mind."


So, call contradiction if you will, us REs will call it "a change of opinion after it becomes apparent to us that you're all jackasses".


Am I wrong? Prove it. Going to reply and challenge my views? I'm not going to dignify you with a response. Full stop instead of Commar? No capital letter? Your message is invalidated.
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britishgent

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2006, 05:42:54 AM »
calm down and btw the earth IS flat
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eternitycode

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2006, 05:46:21 AM »
Finally!

You answered all of my points, presented a valid arguement, gave me a challenge- something to think about, you gave evidence by both text and pictures, you created a statement and backed it numerous pieces of information. I'm impressed.

Here I was thinking you're all the same.
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britishgent

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2006, 05:49:09 AM »
alrite then smart-ass i could easily sit here on my mighty pedestal and say prove RE theory but i no that that's an absolutely ridiculous demand y not ask for a specific part of FE theory to be proved consider the answer(s) u get and then ask for another...
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britishgent

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2006, 05:50:01 AM »
Flat earthers even if he asks a common question dont direct him to FAQ just answer the guy
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beast

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2006, 05:56:53 AM »
Quote from: "eternitycode"
How about stop finding faults in the way we type/talk, and find faults in what we beleive to be true.


All RE's come on here, see your ideas, and then what? They (I included) put themselves in your shoes and give it a thoguht, find flaws, discuss, attempt to disprove andm ost of the time attempt to have an adult debate.


What do you do? Pick at our Grammar, pick at our contradictions, but you manage to totally leave out the bit where you think "Hmm, what if?" or "Hmm, good point, however.." So whilst we are sitting here thinking "If that were true, I'd need this for it to be proved", you're sitting there saying "I know this is true, I don't need to prove it."


Despite the fact that I, along with over 6 billion other humans, have been raised by logic and proof to believe the Earth is sperical, and you say you don't need to prove it to us? What is this? Why have a forum with a section dedicated to discussion and debate if you simply read our posts and tell us to prove it, tell us that you 'know' you're right.


You want proof? We've given you proof. Lots of it, more than you need. Your 'proof' relies on Theories you yourselves have created. Proof relies on numbers, it relies on evidence, it relies on solid founding. It cannot be proof if it was is founded upon a Theory, a possibility.


But you know, I've probably made a spelling mistake, I've probably used incorrect Grammar, that makes this whole post wrong.


Oh, and in direct reply (a concept that baffles the most of you) the reason us REs seem to 'contradict' ourselves time and time again is simple:

Us guys are open minded.

We've read your views, explored your views, devoted a bit of ourselves to think "maybe this is true, I'll give these people a chance, and I'll look into it" but then it is after we do that we still get the same ignorance, "Prove it", "I'm not going to dignify that with a response", "You made a spelling mistake, EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS NOW WRONG", that we then decide "You know, to hell with it, here's a piece of my mind. A mind just like yours, a NARROW mind."


So, call contradiction if you will, us REs will call it "a change of opinion after it becomes apparent to us that you're all jackasses".


Am I wrong? Prove it. Going to reply and challenge my views? I'm not going to dignify you with a response. Full stop instead of Commar? No capital letter? Your message is invalidated.


Was that directed at me?  I don't believe the Earth is flat, I just can't comprehend why anybody would feel the need to defend Round Earth theory.  I ask why over and over and nobody gives me a good answer.
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Unimportant

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2006, 06:51:05 AM »
Quote from: "Xargo"
Quote from: "Unimportant"

If somene has proven that light doesn't refract in the atmosphere, I'd very much like to see that proof.


Prove it does.

Our forum. Burden on you.

Good luck have fun.
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Nomad

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2006, 08:21:59 AM »
Quote from: "eternitycode"
Despite the fact that I, along with over 6 billion other humans, have been raised by logic and proof to believe the Earth is sperical, and you say you don't need to prove it to us? What is this? Why have a forum with a section dedicated to discussion and debate if you simply read our posts and tell us to prove it, tell us that you 'know' you're right.


The world is clearly NOT sperical.  I'm sorry, but I just can't take your posts seriously with errors like that.

( ;) )

You do have a very good point.  But if you notice a pattern, in the eight or so months this forum has been out there (you can do searches for certain long-time users's posts), you'll notice that this has been occuring since the inception of this board (or, at least, this incarnation of the board).

I seriously doubt there is anyone here who actually believes the Earth is flat.  If they do, they most likely rode a short bus to school.

Most, to me it seems, are here for the debate.  The ones that claim to be Flat Earthers, are likely here pretending the scenario fits just out of psychological experiment.  I wouldn't doubt that, since they seem to be the most intelligent users here.  I sure as hell don't know trig and calc myself.
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eternitycode

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2006, 08:32:53 AM »
I see where you're coming from (on the idea that this is just an experiment) but even still, I just find it totally unnecassary that on such a forum for debate, they feel the need to just be plain ignorant.

I personally am open to all views. I beleive what I beleive but it doesn't mean that I think other people are wrong, whatever the concept. Sure I think the earth is a sphere, I'm 100% of it, but I won't then turn to someone and say "You're wrong, change your mind." I would however ask that you treat this section of your site as it is intended to be used- To discuss.

Not tell, not order, not shout and not insult. But rather, discuss.

If you truely believe these things, if you truely are a Society, what posesses the most of you to simply say to someone "you're wrong."

You say over and over "It's flat. That's all there is to it." But the fact that you all dodge the proof is astounding. I agree totally with TheDigitalNomad, you all seem very intelligent indeed, which is exactly what leads me to think "They must have a reason to believe the world is flat- these guys aren't just plain stupid, they haven't decided to pluck it out of thin air, they must beleive it for a reason." But the fact you'd rather duck and dive than actually sharing your reason with is just baffles me and leads me then to think:

Maybe they've just got it in for the government.
Maybe they're just a Society of extremely paranoid induviduals.
Maybe they are right, maybe it is all true, and that a) The government is hiding something collossal. and b) These FEers are hiding something even bigger (the method in which they discovered this)



Just my views, could be/most probably am, wrong.
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beast

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2006, 08:41:23 AM »
Quote from: "eternitycode"

Just my views, could be/most probably am, wrong.


I would say that you are.

I think the problem is that there are too many RE trolls on this forum.  I'm talking about the people who incessantly argue that the Earth is round in an ignorant and impertinent manner.  It not only makes genuine debate impossible, but it's just too tempting to wind them up and make them angry.

I think ideally this forum would be locked from people who haven't studied science and philosophy (and maybe debating too).  In my opinion 99% of people who come to this forum and argue that the world is round don't know what they're talking about at all.  While they are correct that the Earth is indeed round, they are unable of comprehending the concepts being argued and they don't know what they're talking about when they do try to argue that the world is round.  I am convinced that all the FEers on this forum could do a significantly better job argueing that the Earth is round than any of the REers but what is the point of that?  This is the Flat Earth Society - not the Round Earth Society.  Surely the aim of posting here is to try to come up with possible arguements for how the Earth could be flat.  I don't really think it matters if that is actually the case or not but I've always found it incredibly boring to argue things that are obviously true.
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eternitycode

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2006, 09:02:01 AM »
Well I can safely tell you one thing right now:

I really want to be an Astronaut haha.. I've read a whole lot on this forum and it really now does seem to me that the only true, 100%, inarguable evidence, is to go up there and look at the whole thing.

Becasue as a lot of you say, if this is all true then there is no other way of knowing unless you not only fly your own plane, but you designed your navigation equipment too. If you're right, then if there was any input at all from the Government, then we'd never know the truth.


But still, now that I've realised it pretty much is impossible to prove/disprove this (although I am still a REer (thoguh only 99.9% now haha)) I can really say the only thing ceasing my suspicion from increasing is the fact I can so no evidence, or even a sound theory, for how this would benefit the government.

It is said that it is to keep the government rich, but how does a round earth conspiracy achieve this? Imagine all the money they could get from "I hiked the Ice Wall" and "I absailed off the edge of the Earth!"

Still, you've really got me thinking, and now I wish I'd never come to this site. I'm just a naturally paranoid being..
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VJ

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Some pretty tough questions.
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2006, 05:10:36 AM »
Quote from: "britishgent"
calm down and btw the earth IS flat
As you people seem so fond of saying, prove it.
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Xargo

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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2006, 09:29:51 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote from: "Xargo"
Quote from: "texta"
Proof: I've been to Sydney and it wasn't upside down.


You cannot prove this by simply saying it.


Waiting for a point.
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quot;Earth is flat because there is a conspiracy, and there is a conspiracy because the Earth is flat" - Makes sense, duh.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=2955.0
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Curious

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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2006, 10:50:59 AM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
Quote from: "Xargo"
Quote from: "Unimportant"

If somene has proven that light doesn't refract in the atmosphere, I'd very much like to see that proof.


Prove it does.

Our forum. Burden on you.

Good luck have fun.


Easy.  find a flat surface about a mile long.  A frozen lake would be good.

Fix a laser (the contractor tripod thingie would be perfect) on a horizontal leveled line,   fix a large target with it's center at the same height a mile away.  The laser should be hitting about 8 inches above center.

Now, use a different color laser.  Since refraction is dependent on wave length if the bending is due to refraction, the light will be bent differently, if the bending is due to the earth's surface being curved then the light will hit the same.

OK, you argue that the lake surface may not be perfectly level, so turn the experiment around.  Swap the Target and laser and redo your measurements.
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