The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #270 on: November 17, 2011, 12:46:26 PM »
Then provide us with FE distances! (never done before)

Alright. It'll take me a while, though, and I'm not sure whether I actually have a clue what I'm doing.

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #271 on: November 17, 2011, 01:09:14 PM »
OK, Im eagerly waiting.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #272 on: November 17, 2011, 01:11:15 PM »
Now you are saying that the longest line on the map is the shortest on earth
No, I am saying that you have marked the shortest line on the map as "even longer", without specifying what it is "even longer" than.

Once again you attempt to put words in my mouth. Does this problem stem from your childhood, perhaps? If you'd like to talk about it, I should be able to offer some help.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #273 on: November 17, 2011, 01:13:45 PM »
Alright, here's an equation for the length of the disk (what in RET would be lines of latitude) in kilometers. Note that it only works for negative values (below the equator)

(|X|445.277963)+40,075.016686

Where X= the degree of latitude. I can probably get distances between cities, too, but it'll take a lot longer.

BTW, are there any specific cities you want the distances between?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 01:45:59 PM by Tausami »

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #274 on: November 17, 2011, 01:22:08 PM »
Alright, here's an equation for the length of the disk (what in RET would be lines of latitude). Note that it only works for negative values (below the equator)

|X|445.277963

Where X= the degree of latitude. I can probably get distances between cities, too, but it'll take a lot longer.

BTW, are there any specific cities you want the distances between?

No no... we don't want you to concoct distances between cities.  We know the distances between cities.  We want you to reconcile those distances with a flat-earth map.

"|X|445.277963" doesn't mean anything in Earth-speak.  You're gonna have to tell us what that means.  And please don't say, "you don't know what that means? No wonder you're all stupid!"  We're not stupid, we're ignorant.  So please... enlighten us.  What is that?
...does anyone find it funny that the Flat Earth model is actually round?

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #275 on: November 17, 2011, 01:43:15 PM »
Alright, here's an equation for the length of the disk (what in RET would be lines of latitude). Note that it only works for negative values (below the equator)

|X|445.277963

Where X= the degree of latitude. I can probably get distances between cities, too, but it'll take a lot longer.

BTW, are there any specific cities you want the distances between?

No no... we don't want you to concoct distances between cities.  We know the distances between cities.  We want you to reconcile those distances with a flat-earth map.

"|X|445.277963" doesn't mean anything in Earth-speak.  You're gonna have to tell us what that means.  And please don't say, "you don't know what that means? No wonder you're all stupid!"  We're not stupid, we're ignorant.  So please... enlighten us.  What is that?

I'm sorry I didn't add labels. I assumed that you could figure out that I was talking about lengths (although I admit that I forgot to state that it's in kilometers). Also, I forgot to add the length of the equator. That's fixed now.

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #276 on: November 17, 2011, 01:59:10 PM »
Alright, here's an equation for the length of the disk (what in RET would be lines of latitude). Note that it only works for negative values (below the equator)

|X|445.277963

Where X= the degree of latitude. I can probably get distances between cities, too, but it'll take a lot longer.

BTW, are there any specific cities you want the distances between?

No no... we don't want you to concoct distances between cities.  We know the distances between cities.  We want you to reconcile those distances with a flat-earth map.

"|X|445.277963" doesn't mean anything in Earth-speak.  You're gonna have to tell us what that means.  And please don't say, "you don't know what that means? No wonder you're all stupid!"  We're not stupid, we're ignorant.  So please... enlighten us.  What is that?

I'm sorry I didn't add labels. I assumed that you could figure out that I was talking about lengths (although I admit that I forgot to state that it's in kilometers). Also, I forgot to add the length of the equator. That's fixed now.

You mean, the diameter?  If the distance between the north and south pole (radius) is 12,800km, why would it not be 12,800km x 2? (diameter = radius x 2, right?)  So, where do all those other numbers come from?

Do you mean to say the diameter is 445.277963km + 40,075.016686km?  So, the diameter is 40,520.294649 km?  Why wouldn't you just say it that way? 

I think I'm just lost.  Does anyone else understand what he's saying?

...does anyone find it funny that the Flat Earth model is actually round?

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #277 on: November 17, 2011, 02:02:36 PM »
Now you are saying that the longest line on the map is the shortest on earth
No, I am saying that you have marked the shortest line on the map as "even longer", without specifying what it is "even longer" than.

Once again you attempt to put words in my mouth. Does this problem stem from your childhood, perhaps? If you'd like to talk about it, I should be able to offer some help.

Is it not obvious that he intended the "longest" line to be compared to the other lines drawn on the map?
...does anyone find it funny that the Flat Earth model is actually round?

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #278 on: November 17, 2011, 02:17:13 PM »
Alright, here's an equation for the length of the disk (what in RET would be lines of latitude). Note that it only works for negative values (below the equator)

|X|445.277963

Where X= the degree of latitude. I can probably get distances between cities, too, but it'll take a lot longer.

BTW, are there any specific cities you want the distances between?

No no... we don't want you to concoct distances between cities.  We know the distances between cities.  We want you to reconcile those distances with a flat-earth map.

"|X|445.277963" doesn't mean anything in Earth-speak.  You're gonna have to tell us what that means.  And please don't say, "you don't know what that means? No wonder you're all stupid!"  We're not stupid, we're ignorant.  So please... enlighten us.  What is that?

I'm sorry I didn't add labels. I assumed that you could figure out that I was talking about lengths (although I admit that I forgot to state that it's in kilometers). Also, I forgot to add the length of the equator. That's fixed now.

You mean, the diameter?  If the distance between the north and south pole (radius) is 12,800km, why would it not be 12,800km x 2? (diameter = radius x 2, right?)  So, where do all those other numbers come from?

Do you mean to say the diameter is 445.277963km + 40,075.016686km?  So, the diameter is 40,520.294649 km?  Why wouldn't you just say it that way? 

I think I'm just lost.  Does anyone else understand what he's saying?

I'm talking about lines of latitude, as I said.

BTW, the distance between NYC and Sydney is ~29524.6 km.

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El Cid

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #279 on: November 17, 2011, 02:54:35 PM »
Alright, here's an equation for the length of the disk (what in RET would be lines of latitude) in kilometers. Note that it only works for negative values (below the equator)

(|X|445.277963)+40,075.016686

Where X= the degree of latitude. I can probably get distances between cities, too, but it'll take a lot longer.

BTW, are there any specific cities you want the distances between?
Is the first term supposed to be multiplied?  And is it supposed to be an absolute value?  If so, since it only works for negative values, couldn't you just put -445.277963X+40,075.016686?

I don't understand it anyway.  So, if, according to the FAQ, the diameter of the entire disc is 40,073 km, then the diameter of only the Northern Hemisphere should be 20,036.5 km, and the circumference of the NH (equator), should be C=(pi)(diameter), so we will get 62,946.5212 km for the equator.

In any case, this conclusion fixes nothing, because the lengths are still distorted.

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #280 on: November 17, 2011, 02:57:48 PM »
Alright, here's an equation for the length of the disk (what in RET would be lines of latitude) in kilometers. Note that it only works for negative values (below the equator)

(|X|445.277963)+40,075.016686

Where X= the degree of latitude. I can probably get distances between cities, too, but it'll take a lot longer.

BTW, are there any specific cities you want the distances between?
Is the first term supposed to be multiplied?  And is it supposed to be an absolute value?  If so, since it only works for negative values, couldn't you just put -445.277963X+40,075.016686?

I don't understand it anyway.  So, if, according to the FAQ, the diameter of the entire disc is 40,073 km, then the diameter of only the Northern Hemisphere should be 20,036.5 km, and the circumference of the NH (equator), should be C=(pi)(diameter), so we will get 62,946.5212 km for the equator.

In any case, this conclusion fixes nothing, because the lengths are still distorted.

Yes, it is supposed to be multiplied, and yes, it is an absolute value sign. And this clearly means that the FAQ is wrong, because the Equator is that long (the actual length changes a couple feet each year. I don't know why). And, again, the lengths are difference in FET.

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #281 on: November 17, 2011, 02:59:33 PM »

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El Cid

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #282 on: November 17, 2011, 03:13:21 PM »
Well, this is all just great, but it solves nothing!  Now we know the distances on the distorted Earth, which are no good anyway because the equator is 40,075.0 km.  But mostly, we still don't know why the places more south are all wrong.  And if you don't know why the equator changes, then how do you know it happens?  Somehow I doubt you measured it every year accurately enough to find a discrepancy of a few feet.  Also on the plane you would have seen that the Earth is round.  Where did that even come from?  Did you just make that up right now?

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #283 on: November 17, 2011, 03:16:34 PM »
Well, this is all just great, but it solves nothing!  Now we know the distances on the distorted Earth, which are no good anyway because the equator is 40,075.0 km.  But mostly, we still don't know why the places more south are all wrong.  And if you don't know why the equator changes, then how do you know it happens?  Somehow I doubt you measured it every year accurately enough to find a discrepancy of a few feet.  Also on the plane you would have seen that the Earth is round.  Where did that even come from?  Did you just make that up right now?

What, exactly, does any of that have to do with anything? I added the change in as a little sidebar because I found it interesting.

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El Cid

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #284 on: November 17, 2011, 03:21:12 PM »
Well, this is all just great, but it solves nothing!  Now we know the distances on the distorted Earth, which are no good anyway because the equator is 40,075.0 km.  But mostly, we still don't know why the places more south are all wrong.  And if you don't know why the equator changes, then how do you know it happens?  Somehow I doubt you measured it every year accurately enough to find a discrepancy of a few feet.  Also on the plane you would have seen that the Earth is round.  Where did that even come from?  Did you just make that up right now?
But where did you find that fact from?  Where did you find any of these numbers from at all?  They don't even make sense.  The equator is wrong.
What, exactly, does any of that have to do with anything? I added the change in as a little sidebar because I found it interesting.

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #285 on: November 17, 2011, 03:23:48 PM »
Well, this is all just great, but it solves nothing!  Now we know the distances on the distorted Earth, which are no good anyway because the equator is 40,075.0 km.  But mostly, we still don't know why the places more south are all wrong.  And if you don't know why the equator changes, then how do you know it happens?  Somehow I doubt you measured it every year accurately enough to find a discrepancy of a few feet.  Also on the plane you would have seen that the Earth is round.  Where did that even come from?  Did you just make that up right now?
But where did you find that fact from?  Where did you find any of these numbers from at all?  They don't even make sense.  The equator is wrong.
What, exactly, does any of that have to do with anything? I added the change in as a little sidebar because I found it interesting.

It's not wrong. It's more accurate. I used the same number as you, just with more decimal places.

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El Cid

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #286 on: November 17, 2011, 03:28:00 PM »
Well, this is all just great, but it solves nothing!  Now we know the distances on the distorted Earth, which are no good anyway because the equator is 40,075.0 km.  But mostly, we still don't know why the places more south are all wrong.  And if you don't know why the equator changes, then how do you know it happens?  Somehow I doubt you measured it every year accurately enough to find a discrepancy of a few feet.  Also on the plane you would have seen that the Earth is round.  Where did that even come from?  Did you just make that up right now?
But where did you find that fact from?  Where did you find any of these numbers from at all?  They don't even make sense.  The equator is wrong.
What, exactly, does any of that have to do with anything? I added the change in as a little sidebar because I found it interesting.

It's not wrong. It's more accurate. I used the same number as you, just with more decimal places.
It is more accurate, but it's inconsistent with FET.  Remember this?

So, if, according to the FAQ, the diameter of the entire disc is 40,073 km, then the diameter of only the Northern Hemisphere should be 20,036.5 km, and the circumference of the NH (equator), should be C=(pi)(diameter), so we will get 62,946.5212 km for the equator.

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #287 on: November 17, 2011, 03:32:47 PM »
Well, this is all just great, but it solves nothing!  Now we know the distances on the distorted Earth, which are no good anyway because the equator is 40,075.0 km.  But mostly, we still don't know why the places more south are all wrong.  And if you don't know why the equator changes, then how do you know it happens?  Somehow I doubt you measured it every year accurately enough to find a discrepancy of a few feet.  Also on the plane you would have seen that the Earth is round.  Where did that even come from?  Did you just make that up right now?
But where did you find that fact from?  Where did you find any of these numbers from at all?  They don't even make sense.  The equator is wrong.
What, exactly, does any of that have to do with anything? I added the change in as a little sidebar because I found it interesting.

It's not wrong. It's more accurate. I used the same number as you, just with more decimal places.
It is more accurate, but it's inconsistent with FET.  Remember this?

So, if, according to the FAQ, the diameter of the entire disc is 40,073 km, then the diameter of only the Northern Hemisphere should be 20,036.5 km, and the circumference of the NH (equator), should be C=(pi)(diameter), so we will get 62,946.5212 km for the equator.

the FAQ is wrong

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El Cid

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #288 on: November 17, 2011, 03:37:20 PM »
Well, this is all just great, but it solves nothing!  Now we know the distances on the distorted Earth, which are no good anyway because the equator is 40,075.0 km.  But mostly, we still don't know why the places more south are all wrong.  And if you don't know why the equator changes, then how do you know it happens?  Somehow I doubt you measured it every year accurately enough to find a discrepancy of a few feet.  Also on the plane you would have seen that the Earth is round.  Where did that even come from?  Did you just make that up right now?
But where did you find that fact from?  Where did you find any of these numbers from at all?  They don't even make sense.  The equator is wrong.
What, exactly, does any of that have to do with anything? I added the change in as a little sidebar because I found it interesting.

It's not wrong. It's more accurate. I used the same number as you, just with more decimal places.
It is more accurate, but it's inconsistent with FET.  Remember this?

So, if, according to the FAQ, the diameter of the entire disc is 40,073 km, then the diameter of only the Northern Hemisphere should be 20,036.5 km, and the circumference of the NH (equator), should be C=(pi)(diameter), so we will get 62,946.5212 km for the equator.

the FAQ is wrong
Well, fine.  So the diameter of the Earth is 25,512.5374 km, and we still have exactly the same distortions that have no effect on plane flights that happen every day.

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #289 on: November 17, 2011, 04:41:48 PM »
We already went over that.

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Zogg

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #290 on: November 17, 2011, 04:57:19 PM »
Now you are saying that the longest line on the map is the shortest on earth
No, I am saying that you have marked the shortest line on the map as "even longer", without specifying what it is "even longer" than.

You need glasses. On the map, the green line is the longest of the three lines, as eyerybody can verify with a ruler. The left red line has a length of about 420 pixels, the right red line of 830, the green line of more than 1000. (The length in centimeters or inches depends on the screen size and resolution.) Yet you just called said 1000-pixel-long line "the shortest line on the map" - I have marked your sentence red for you - which is pure nonsense. As I supposed you are neither blind nor stupid, I supposed you were saying it's the shortest concerning the metrics on earth, not concerning the (euclidean) metrics on the map where it is the longest.

Once again you attempt to put words in my mouth.

Fact is, the green line is actually the longest line (1000 pixels > 830 pixels), and fact is that you called it the shortest. Did you mean the shortest on earth (in which case I didn't anything in your mouth) or on the map (in which case you are implying that 1000 < 830, and even 1000 < 420) ?

Does this problem stem from your childhood, perhaps? If you'd like to talk about it, I should be able to offer some help.

Once again you are using personal insults when cornered. Nothing new.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 05:00:34 PM by Zogg »

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #291 on: November 17, 2011, 08:18:18 PM »
(the actual length changes a couple feet each year. I don't know why). And, again, the lengths are difference in FET.

The earth is fatter around than it is over the top+bottom because the earth spins on it's axis.  It's the exact same phenomenon behind Saturn's rings.  Whenever you have debris within' the roche radius, debris spirals into a planet in a perpendicular fashion to it's axis.  If you take a wet ball and and spin it end-over-end in the air, you'll notice the water flings off in a path perpendicular to its rotational axis.  Also, if you spin anything big enough with enough velocity, it will distort.  Especially as big as the world is and as fast as it rotates.  You just proved the earth is round.

Let's get back to this map and how the measurements don't add up and the length of the green line.  I took the map Zogg uploaded and gave it a little Trig.

Of course I can't measure miles on my computer monitor, so I blew the image up to it's actual size in photoshop (my display is 1280x1024, which proves an even 1:1 ratio) and did some measurements.  The red line drawn between Sydney and Cape Town is 9.63".  Now, we can all agree that the North Pole is the center  of the map.  The distance between Cape Town and the North Pole as well as the distance between Sydney and the North Pole is 5.25".  Now that we have a triangle with known measurements of all 3 sides, we can deduce that the angle between the two distances is 133 degrees.  Since the distances are equal and they are the same distance from the center, we can now assume a radius of 5.25".  Since we have 2 lines of radius with a given length, and we know the degree of separation between the two, we can figure out the distance of the arc that joins them.  Thus, we can deduce that the green line roughly measures 12.16".  So, how long is that?  Well, if 9.63" = 6,843 miles, we can determine mileage that would be covered in 12.16" using a ratio of 1 to 710.59.  This Makes the green flight path a whopping 8,640 miles.  So, according to the flat earth map, roudn earth pilots are taking an 8,640-mile journey in the time it takes to travel only 6,843 miles.  BUT... if you measure the radius between the center point and the middle of the green arc, you'll get a wider radius.  This means that the length of the green line is actually GREATER than the values I've provided.

8,640 > 6,843.  Thus, the green line is longer.  What's more, the distance from Los Angeles to Cape Town is actually over 9,000 miles, which should be LONGER than the green line indicated on the map (which is the actual used flight path).  However, the distance between L.A. and Cape Town on the FE map only measures around 8", which is 33% SHORTER than the used flight path between Sydney and Cape Town.

What Zogg is indicating in this map is that it takes a shorter amount of time to complete the used flight path between Sydney and Cape Town than it takes to complete the used flight path between LA and Cairo.  But, according to the map, it should take twice as LONG because the 4.75" line connecting LA and Cairo on the flat earth map should only translate to around 3,375 miles.  The Flat Earth Map just doesn't work.



So, I've explained how the map doesn't work in real world math.  It's not "Round Earth math," it's called geometry.  If the math I've used works to explain the measurements of every single circle in the world, why the hell would it change when it comes to measuring a circular, flat world... unless the given shape of the world is incorrect?  The only way proven theories of geometry apply to Earth like it does to every other thing in existence is if the world is spherical... which... amazingly is EXACTLY how it appears when you look at it.

Now, you'll have to forgive me for not providing the same measurements in FE math... where you use different laws of geometry to measure the world than you do to measure EVERYTHING ELSE.  FE'ers made up flat earth math, so FE'ers are the only ones who know how to do it.  If you can explain the distances provided using "flat earth math (which just... sounds incredibly STUPID even THINKING about the very term)," we would love to see it.  Don't just give us a map that doesn't look anything like the world and say, "we can't prove it, and we can't explain why it's different than every other logical conclusion, but it just is because... well, prove it isn't!"
...does anyone find it funny that the Flat Earth model is actually round?

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #292 on: November 18, 2011, 12:33:32 AM »
I'm surprised to see that instead of coming up with a twisted theory about why FE maps have to be different from the reality, they chose to defy simple geometry.
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #293 on: November 18, 2011, 08:02:15 AM »
Fact is, the green line is actually the longest line.
Perhaps under RET geometry.

Once again you are using personal insults when cornered. Nothing new.
Actually, I was sincerely offering help. You compulsively keep distorting what other people say to make it match your imagination of what's going on. Believe me or not, that is a problem. If you'd rather seek a professional, feel free to, but my offer still stands.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 08:05:11 AM by PizzaPlanet »
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Zogg

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #294 on: November 18, 2011, 10:15:10 AM »
Fact is, the green line is actually the longest line.
Perhaps under RET geometry.

On the map. In centimeters. Or inches. Measured with a tape rule. Is it so difficult for you to compare the length of three lines on a plane? Any six years old kid could do that.

It's funny that a guy who can't even handle a tap rule is offering me psychological help for my supposed problems. No thanks. ;D

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #295 on: November 18, 2011, 11:36:09 AM »
Fact is, the green line is actually the longest line.
Perhaps under RET geometry.

Once again you are using personal insults when cornered. Nothing new.
Actually, I was sincerely offering help. You compulsively keep distorting what other people say to make it match your imagination of what's going on. Believe me or not, that is a problem. If you'd rather seek a professional, feel free to, but my offer still stands.

It is quite simple. We can calculate the theoretical distance between two points on a RE and FE. We then compare that value to what is actually known (i.e. measured) and conclude that distances in the real world math those predicted by RET and not by FET.

No amount of bendy light or bendy math will change this fact.
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #296 on: November 18, 2011, 12:47:09 PM »
But you calculate them following some strange paths that, contrary to your belief, do not constitute straight lines.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #297 on: November 18, 2011, 01:16:18 PM »
Fact is, the green line is actually the longest line.
Perhaps under RET geometry.

Once again you are using personal insults when cornered. Nothing new.
Actually, I was sincerely offering help. You compulsively keep distorting what other people say to make it match your imagination of what's going on. Believe me or not, that is a problem. If you'd rather seek a professional, feel free to, but my offer still stands.

It is quite simple. We can calculate the theoretical distance between two points on a RE and FE. We then compare that value to what is actually known (i.e. measured) and conclude that distances in the real world math those predicted by RET and not by FET.

No amount of bendy light or bendy math will change this fact.

The distance is measured via the map, you know.

Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #298 on: November 18, 2011, 01:29:39 PM »
Not really. Your mistaking cause and consequences:maps are drawn FROM distances.
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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Tausami

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #299 on: November 18, 2011, 01:35:42 PM »
Not really. Your mistaking cause and consequences:maps are drawn FROM distances.

No. Cartographers didn't determine where Australia was by finding out how far away from every existing land mass it is.