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The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers

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Thork

Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #90 on: October 30, 2011, 05:48:14 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:46:05 PM
Since some people here don't understand the challenge, here it is again:


Using this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0759496.html

Or any reliable source on distances between cities,

Find any FE map large enough to contains all continents, including Antarctica, consistant with the distances given above.

Lrn2scale, you useless excuse for a human.
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EmperorZhark

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New ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #91 on: October 30, 2011, 05:50:20 PM »
Using this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0759496.html

Or any reliable source on distances between cities,

Build a representation of the Earth with all distances coherent. (clue: the map doesn't have to be planar).
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2011, 05:50:30 PM »
To try and help EmperorZhark to understand, here is a graphical explanation of the FE distance model.



All circles are identical.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2011, 05:51:11 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 05:46:47 PM


Distances between etc etc. You're not making any effort!
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: New ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2011, 05:52:05 PM »
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #95 on: October 30, 2011, 05:52:44 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:51:11 PM
Distances between etc etc. You're not making any effort!
It is you who doesn't make any effort. I've even provided an extra illustration to explain this to you.
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momentia

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #96 on: October 30, 2011, 05:53:58 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 05:50:30 PM
To try and help EmperorZhark to understand, here is a graphical explanation of the FE distance model.



All circles are identical.

alright, make a map where all circles look like circles.
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Thork

Re: New ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #97 on: October 30, 2011, 05:54:31 PM »
Well done PizzaPlanet. The 'ultimate' ::) challenge has been met.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2011, 05:54:33 PM »
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 05:53:58 PM
alright, make a map where all circles look like circles.
This is one.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #99 on: October 30, 2011, 05:55:06 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 05:50:30 PM
To try and help EmperorZhark to understand, here is a graphical explanation of the FE distance model.



All circles are identical.

They are so identical that some are circles, other ellipses.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: New ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #100 on: October 30, 2011, 05:55:47 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 05:52:05 PM


You didn't even try. You're an utter failure.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #101 on: October 30, 2011, 05:56:42 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:55:06 PM
They are so identical that some are circles, other ellipses.
Only if you assume the Euclidean 3-dimensional geometry. Such an assumption is necessary for RE, so you take it for granted. However, it is a very invalid assumption.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: New ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2011, 05:57:46 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:55:47 PM
You didn't even try. You're an utter failure.
Incorrect. This has been explained to you several times now.
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Thork

Re: New ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #103 on: October 30, 2011, 05:58:23 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:55:47 PM
You didn't even try. You're an utter failure.
Its because you do not understand the answer. The conversation cannot move on until you grasp how a map works. Only then can you object to the flat earth theory. You are being given the answer repeatedly, and you don't get it. It is you that fails.
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momentia

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #104 on: October 30, 2011, 06:00:55 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 05:56:42 PM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:55:06 PM
They are so identical that some are circles, other ellipses.
Only if you assume the Euclidean 3-dimensional geometry. Such an assumption is necessary for RE, so you take it for granted. However, it is a very invalid assumption.

True, perhaps you could use a geometry with roughly uniform positive curvature.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #105 on: October 30, 2011, 06:01:43 PM »
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 06:00:55 PM
True, perhaps you could use a geometry with roughly uniform positive curvature.
By no means. This would render the existence of most of space impossible.
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momentia

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #106 on: October 30, 2011, 06:07:50 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 06:01:43 PM
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 06:00:55 PM
True, perhaps you could use a geometry with roughly uniform positive curvature.
By no means. This would render the existence of most of space impossible.

Actually, I have a metric to describe such a manifold:


h = height above sea level (in meters)
λ = longitude
Φ = latitude

The distance between two points is calculated by finding the shortest path between them (minimize ∫ds from point 1 to point 2.)
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #107 on: October 30, 2011, 06:11:46 PM »
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 06:07:50 PM
Actually, I have a metric to describe such a manifold:


h = height above sea level (in meters)
λ = longitude
Φ = latitude

The distance between two points is calculated by finding the shortest path between them (minimize ∫ds from point 1 to point 2.)
Wrong forum.
http://theroundearthsociety.net/
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momentia

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #108 on: October 30, 2011, 06:17:24 PM »
That is my FE model.

Anyways, what geometry are you considering?
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #109 on: October 30, 2011, 06:26:37 PM »
This, essentially, but with inclusion of EA distortion, which causes a strong distinction between mechanical and optical observations.

Quote from: John Davis on February 16, 2011, 03:26:39 PM
Using non-euclidean space and looking at the earth in a fractal manner we solve all issues with geography on a flat earth.

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momentia

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #110 on: October 30, 2011, 07:39:23 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
This, essentially, but with inclusion of EA distortion, which causes a strong distinction between mechanical and optical observations.

Quote from: John Davis on February 16, 2011, 03:26:39 PM
Using non-euclidean space and looking at the earth in a fractal manner we solve all issues with geography on a flat earth.


So the radius of the earth actually decreases to zero as you go close the south pole?
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Nolhekh

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #111 on: October 30, 2011, 08:05:04 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
This, essentially, but with inclusion of EA distortion, which causes a strong distinction between mechanical and optical observations.

Quote from: John Davis on February 16, 2011, 03:26:39 PM
Using non-euclidean space and looking at the earth in a fractal manner we solve all issues with geography on a flat earth.

What evidence brought you to conclude that the earth is like this?
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #112 on: October 30, 2011, 08:37:40 PM »
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 07:39:23 PM
So the radius of the earth actually decreases to zero as you go close the south pole?
No, the radius remains constant. Why would it change?
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #113 on: October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM »
FE = flat map = euclidean geometry = no deformation = no projection, only a scale.

If you'd have to draw a map of a FE, just imagine 26 rows with the numbers 1 to 26 and 26 columns with the letters A to Z, forming 26 x 26 squares, each representing roughly 1,000 miles.

Using the simples laws of geometry (and why should it be different because we are dealing with flat surfaces), we know that any distance in square F12 = the ones in V5.

This is valid using any scale.

I don't see the reason why you want to use anything more complicated than this.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #114 on: October 31, 2011, 10:37:44 AM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM
FE = flat map = euclidean geometry
Incorrect.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM
Using the simples laws of geometry (and why should it be different because we are dealing with flat surfaces), we know that any distance in square F12 = the ones in V5.

This is valid using any scale.
Of course, including a variable scale, such as that of the Mercator map or the FE map.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM
I don't see the reason why you want to use anything more complicated than this.
It's not complicated at all. You're just dismissing it without even trying to think about it. It's like with people who say maths is hard because they don't pay attention in class.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 10:40:03 AM by PizzaPlanet »
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jraffield1

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #115 on: October 31, 2011, 11:16:14 AM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 31, 2011, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM
FE = flat map = euclidean geometry
Incorrect.
[/quote]

So you don't believe the Earth is flat. You have been noted.
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You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #116 on: October 31, 2011, 01:05:48 PM »
Just imagine you take a photo of FE, from space.

Then you draw a map directly from the photo.

There you have your FE map.

I'd just like to see what it looks like.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #117 on: October 31, 2011, 01:11:50 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 31, 2011, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM
FE = flat map = euclidean geometry
Incorrect.


Can someone prove of disprove that guy?
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #118 on: October 31, 2011, 01:13:54 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 31, 2011, 10:37:44 AM

Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM
Using the simples laws of geometry (and why should it be different because we are dealing with flat surfaces), we know that any distance in square F12 = the ones in V5.

This is valid using any scale.
Of course, including a variable scale, such as that of the Mercator map or the FE map.


Can someone explain this guy that we don't need a variable scale?
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #119 on: October 31, 2011, 01:16:51 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 31, 2011, 10:37:44 AM

Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 31, 2011, 01:37:50 AM
I don't see the reason why you want to use anything more complicated than this.
It's not complicated at all. You're just dismissing it without even trying to think about it. It's like with people who say maths is hard because they don't pay attention in class.

Fortunately, I never had teachers like you.
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