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Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?

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General Disarray

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2011, 09:51:16 AM »
Zetetics often forget that science also starts from inquiry.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2011, 09:55:57 AM »
Science as a term is broad enough to include both zetetic and theoretical science.
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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2011, 10:10:15 AM »
Quote from: flat_earth_really? on October 24, 2011, 09:25:16 AM
Thread derailing aside, what has zeteticism given us? Please post a link to where this info came as well.

So far there is the as yet unsubstantiated claim regarding electricity. Anything else?
The field of human chronobiology, for one. 
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flat_earth_really?

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2011, 11:11:07 AM »
Quote from: John Davis on October 24, 2011, 10:10:15 AM
Quote from: flat_earth_really? on October 24, 2011, 09:25:16 AM
Thread derailing aside, what has zeteticism given us? Please post a link to where this info came as well.

So far there is the as yet unsubstantiated claim regarding electricity. Anything else?
The field of human chronobiology, for one.
Interesting. Any chance of a link or explanation?
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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2011, 11:31:31 AM »
Quote from: flat_earth_really? on October 24, 2011, 11:11:07 AM
Quote from: John Davis on October 24, 2011, 10:10:15 AM
Quote from: flat_earth_really? on October 24, 2011, 09:25:16 AM
Thread derailing aside, what has zeteticism given us? Please post a link to where this info came as well.

So far there is the as yet unsubstantiated claim regarding electricity. Anything else?
The field of human chronobiology, for one.
Interesting. Any chance of a link or explanation?
http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/30/foer.php
His methodology as he describes it epitomizes, at least to me, a zetetic pursuit.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2011, 11:35:15 AM »
Yeah, being alone with no contactsand a privation of a lot of thing, you start to loose contact with reality (ie you think that 2 minutes have elapsed when it fact it was 5)!
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jraffield1

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2011, 01:40:03 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 24, 2011, 09:34:22 AM
Many ventures were Zetetic in nature. Remember, it was the Wright Brother who said -- "Science Theory held us up for years. When we threw out the science and started from experiment to experience, then we invented the airplane."

The Wright Brithers were Zetetics. They started from inquiry, not hypothesis. They did not "build on the shoulders of giants" like a disreputable scientician. They did their own experiments and let reality do the talking.

If you start off on the biases and misconceptions of others you are doing a disservice to your work. It should not be assumed that the research of others is valid.

The correct way to proceed is to start off on a clean slate, make no assumptions, do the experiments, account for every possibility, and let the results do the talking.

Many inventors are Zetetics. They do not start off by creating a hypothesis and then try to prove it true. They do not build their work off of the card house theories of others. They start off by inquiry, doing a series of basic experiments to explore all possibilities until they discover what is true and what is false.

Zeteticiscm is superior to the scientific method because it brings us to the certain truth rather than just a truth. For more information please read Chapter 1 of Earth Not a Globe "Zetetic and Theoretic Defined and Compared" --

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za04.htm#page_1

There are an infinite number of aircraft variations, are you suggesting that the Wright brothers built and tested them all? If they didn't test an infinite number of aircraft, then by your definition, they did not "explore all possibilities" and as such their work is as zetetic as I am (i.e. not at all).
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2011, 01:49:32 PM »
Quote from: jraffield1 on October 24, 2011, 01:40:03 PM
There are an infinite number of aircraft variations,
Incorrect. Infinity is a man made concept. There is a finite number, you just don't know what it is. It will be very large though. Even the number of atoms in the universe is finite. Arrange them into as many aircraft shapes as you like, the number is still finite.

Quote from: jraffield1 on October 24, 2011, 01:40:03 PM
are you suggesting that the Wright brothers built and tested them all? If they didn't test an infinite number of aircraft, then by your definition, they did not "explore all possibilities" and as such their work is as zetetic as I am (i.e. not at all).
As Tom said "until they discover what is true and false". Once they got a plane working, they knew what was true as opposed to false and refined the aircraft based on what they had learned.
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2011, 02:01:21 PM »
Zetecism is stupid it would require you to not be able to say anything about anything you yourself did not discover.  It is this type of thing that allows nonsense like a flat earth to exist.
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2011, 02:04:54 PM »
Its is this powerful method of thinking, that allowed Rowbotham to ascertain for himself earth's shape and share it with others, who may do the same to confirm earth's shape for themselves.
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2011, 02:07:32 PM »
And that is all it lets you do you can't have any theory or opinion on things that happened in the past or things that you yourself cannot test.
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2011, 02:17:45 PM »
Maybe you should present evidence of Zeteticism being ineffectual, instead of just wafting your less than highly respected opinion about?
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2011, 02:27:07 PM »
hmmmmm don't need to thats like me saying that stamp collecting is a stupid hobby and then you asking for evidence of why it is.

Also the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim you claim zetecism is so much better. The burden of proof does not fall upon me to provide evidence against it.
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2011, 02:30:18 PM »
Zeteticism showed us the world is flat! Its gets no juicier than that. The burden is lifted.
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2011, 02:31:31 PM »
NO NO NO you don't just get to wave away the burden of proof.  Hey what do you think of evolution. OH WAIT you have no opinion because you neither witnessed it or tested it.
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2011, 02:32:46 PM »
Quote from: Thork on October 24, 2011, 02:17:45 PM
Maybe you should present evidence of Zeteticism being ineffectual, instead of just wafting your less than highly respected opinion about?
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2011, 02:34:55 PM »
umm fyi you said that already. And once again burden of proof. And here you go for evidence it makes you have no position on anything that you haven't witnessed or tested thats why it is inferior to science.
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2011, 02:38:06 PM »
That is your opinion. This thread is full of your opinions. I would like some evidence of your claims.
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2011, 02:40:50 PM »
ONCE AGAIN BURDEN OF F-ING PROOF.
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2011, 02:43:30 PM »
Oh, you are too lazy. You think we should just keep finding stuff for you? I see. Ok bye.
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2011, 02:50:58 PM »
It isn't laziness, and you are illogical if you were logical you would clearly understand the burden of proof. The default position is to deny a claim until evidence is provided which you have failed to do! Your remarks clearly exhibit you are unable to show zetecism is in any way better than science even on a philisophical standpoint.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2011, 03:11:40 PM »
Quote from: logicalskeptic on October 24, 2011, 02:31:31 PM
NO NO NO you don't just get to wave away the burden of proof.  Hey what do you think of evolution. OH WAIT you have no opinion because you neither witnessed it or tested it.

As a matter of fact, the early development of evolutionary theory is clearly zetetic in nature.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2011, 03:15:15 PM »
Did you witness it or test it yourself? Oh wait no then you have no position on it.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2011, 03:16:31 PM »
Quote from: logicalskeptic on October 24, 2011, 03:15:15 PM
Did you witness it or test it yourself? Oh wait no then you have no position on it.

So zeteticism can only have given something to the world if I, personally, was a part of it?  ???
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?
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rooster

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2011, 03:20:16 PM »
Quote from: Thork on October 24, 2011, 09:05:43 AM
I am just interested. Are you taught things like 'Franklin is the father of electricity',
So because a website said that it must be true? I don't think anyone believes "Franklin is the father of electricity". But as I mentioned he did extensively study the phenomena.

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'Edison invented the light bulb',
Again, depends on what you mean by invented. He made it in a way that surpassed those before him and he demonstrated it to the world. So I guess you could say he basically patented it.

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George Washington couldn't tell a lie' etc at school?
No, but John Appleseed planted all the apple trees.  ::)
 
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If so, combined with swearing allegiance at the beginning of the day, modern Americans have many similarities with Hitler youth.

We don't have to swear allegiance and that makes us very different from Nazis, thank you.
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Thork

Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2011, 03:22:46 PM »
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.

You may be surprised to find out, we don't have an equivalent of this in the UK.

I can think of a nation that had something similar though. It went like this.

"I swear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath."
The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 04:07:29 PM by Thork »
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logicalskeptic

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2011, 03:23:55 PM »
No according to you zetetics you yourself can only believe it if you tested it yourself or witnessed it.
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rooster

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2011, 03:25:30 PM »
Quote from: Thork on October 24, 2011, 03:22:46 PM
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.

You may be surprised to find out, we don't have an equivalent of this in the UK.

Well if you mean Americans and Nazis are patriotic then you have a point. My point was that we don't have to say it and that's the difference.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2011, 04:01:42 PM »
Quote from: jroa on October 23, 2011, 12:31:27 AM
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 22, 2011, 02:55:48 AM
Zeteticism gave us electricity.

Really?  Please enlighten us.
Oh, hey, I missed that post. Only noticed it in someone's sig now.
Benjamin Franklin's discovery was based of an experiment purely Zetetic in its nature.
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markjo

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Re: Why do you hold zeteticism in such high regard?
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2011, 05:00:21 PM »
Quote from: Thork on October 24, 2011, 03:22:46 PM
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
Originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892

You may be surprised to find out, we don't have an equivalent of this in the UK.

I can think of a nation that had something similar though. It went like this.

"I swear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath."
The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

Fixed for pedantic reasons.
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