Amateur satellites

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Conker

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Amateur satellites
« on: October 11, 2011, 01:04:19 PM »
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/

Maybe you are so lazy to find the satellital database, so hereīs the link. Be aware for Ham slang.http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php


PS: I donīt think you are going to change your mind. i just enjoy enrevesated explanations
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Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 01:22:23 PM »
ARISS? ARISS? An International Organisation calling its Project ARISS? This has to be a joke site.

Also do you know the people that set this site up? How can you be sure they are any more distant from the conspiracy than NASA. How do you know this little hoax isn't made by NASA calling itself and representing itself as something else?

Here is another amateur site. Anyone can make a website with data. The data doesn't have to be based on reality.

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Conker

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 01:28:35 PM »
But they are telling you what satellites they have up there, and they are giving you their frecuencies. Also, they are made by universities, so is just about searching on the proyect database( If exists) of the university. I will chech their operabillity by myself, if I werenīt living under a 3G antenna, which leaves KO every HF transsmission
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Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 01:32:43 PM »
Those frequencies could be easily sent out by psuedolites. This is not scientific evidence. Just the icy fingers of the conspiracy reaching into your pants to give your conkers a tug.

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markjo

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 02:41:37 PM »
Can pseudolites provide a moving signal source with the same angular velocity as satellites?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 02:49:57 PM »
Can pseudolites provide a moving signal source with the same angular velocity as satellites?
Yes.

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Conker

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 02:55:08 PM »
Can pseudolites send an SSTV rasio signal of outer space made with internal cameras.
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Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 02:57:48 PM »
Can pseudolites send an SSTV rasio signal of outer space made with internal cameras.
They can simulate it yes. They are psuedo-satellites which are ground based stations that perform the functions of satellites. They can triangulate a position to give you a GPS co-ordinate or provide you with 'satellite' TV for example.

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Conker

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 03:13:39 PM »
Eeeehm, sure Thork, thatīs why you need to point the antenna upwards to receive the signal, exactly as with the ISS. Anyway, did you heard about that spacelab competition on youtube? Itīs your f**king moment, guys
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Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 03:25:39 PM »
Eeeehm, sure Thork, thatīs why you need to point the antenna upwards to receive the signal, exactly as with the ISS.
And with that you dismiss any chance the 'satellite' is above you.
Think about a car aerial. It points up. Not because the radio station mast is in the air. If the aerial points up, the direction of the wave will be perpendicular.


You should look up the right-hand rule for propagation.


If the aerial points up for best reception, the last place the source must be is up or down.

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markjo

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 03:34:52 PM »
Can pseudolites provide a moving signal source with the same angular velocity as satellites?
Yes.
Would you care to explain how this can be accomplished?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Conker

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 03:36:57 PM »
OMFG are you trying to argue whith me with radio? SURE? OK. Of course that the right hand rule must to be taken in consideration for the antenna, but iīm not talking about the fisical antenna wire direction, more about the most effective receiving direction. You donīt use Omnidirectional antennas to receive a extremelly quiet signal in the space, you use a Directional antenna. Those need to be faced with the emiter. Car antennas are omnidirectional devices, just because FM commercial emmiters are strong enough, and itīs not very comfortable to turn your antenna on every courve. A very common directional antenna will be a satellital receiver (LoL, redundance), for example, the one of your TV. It must be pointed to where the satellite is.
This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

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Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 03:54:38 PM »
OMFG are you trying to argue whith me with radio? 
Why not? Because your trolling to date has singled you out as an authority on the matter? If you are such an expert on radio, why are you asking me fundamental questions about how it works?

fisical antenna
What is a fisical antenna?

I have a satellite dish on my house. It points South East, not up. Proof in itself the 'satellite' must be in Slough and not in space.

Pseuolites is the answer to your queries. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 03:59:40 PM by Thork »

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markjo

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 04:06:16 PM »
I have a satellite dish on my house. It points South East, not up. Proof in itself the 'satellite' must be in Slough and not in space.

Your satellite dish points parallel to the surface of the earth?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 04:13:06 PM »
I have a satellite dish on my house. It points South East, not up. Proof in itself the 'satellite' must be in Slough and not in space.

Your satellite dish points parallel to the surface of the earth?  ???
Yep. It is mounted like this one


or this one


or any of the ones in this street.


You'll be telling me they are all pointing up at satellites in the sky, and not parallel at ground based stations next. ::)

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alex00

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2011, 04:48:47 PM »
those satellites are all pointing at the sky..

they have to otherwise you will get no signal..
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2011, 05:27:40 PM »
Home satellite dishes don't exactly need to be lined up with a specific pin-point to operate, just in a general direction. The actual signal could be coming from a variety of sources in that direction.

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2011, 05:28:44 PM »
my dish points sout east too Thork. its not paralell to the ground, though it is a shallow angle up, maybe 20 degrees.

Edit - which is just above where the sun would be over the south eastern horizon at midnight in the middle of winter if the earth were flat. Why would my dish need to point that high into the sky? there are no significant mountain rainges in that direction form my house all the way to the ice wall. no reason to think the signal is coming form a pseudolite-

Also I am interested to see you provide evidence for
Can pseudolites provide a moving signal source with the same angular velocity as satellites?
Yes.
Would you care to explain how this can be accomplished?

I'm dying to hear this one.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 05:32:19 PM by Sentient Pizza »
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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2011, 05:34:24 PM »
Home satellite dishes don't exactly need to be lined up with a specific pin-point to operate, just in a general direction. The actual signal could be coming from a variety of sources in that direction.

What a load tom. my dish got moved a half an inch and my signal completley stopped working. While the tech was re-aligning the dish he showed me the signal strength and what a difference it makes to be correctly aimed to a pin point.
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alex00

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2011, 05:38:36 PM »
Home satellite dishes don't exactly need to be lined up with a specific pin-point to operate, just in a general direction. The actual signal could be coming from a variety of sources in that direction.

not really...go outside and point your satellite(if you have one) about 4 feet to the right or left..guarantee you that you will loose your signal
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markjo

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2011, 06:19:07 PM »
You'll be telling me they are all pointing up at satellites in the sky, and not parallel at ground based stations next. ::)

What do ground based stations have to do with satellite TV?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2011, 11:07:11 PM »
Home satellite dishes don't exactly need to be lined up with a specific pin-point to operate, just in a general direction. The actual signal could be coming from a variety of sources in that direction.
The complete inverse of the statement is true. Dish alignment is crucial. Tom's making it up.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 11:09:57 PM by Moon squirter »
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Thork

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2011, 01:51:12 AM »
those satellites are all pointing at the sky..

they have to otherwise you will get no signal..
Use your eyes. What do they tell you? They are hardly pointing at the sky. They are picking up ground based transmitters. >:(

my dish points sout east too Thork. its not paralell to the ground, though it is a shallow angle up, maybe 20 degrees.
This is rare and unlikely. However assuming you are not just saying this to try and get a reaction I will tell you how it works anyway. If you live in a built up area or an area where terrain would be a problem, the 'satellite' company will use the ionoplane to hook you and that local area up with a skywave.

This way you get a signal when a ground wave would otherwise leave poor reception.

Edit - which is just above where the sun would be over the south eastern horizon at midnight in the middle of winter if the earth were flat. Why would my dish need to point that high into the sky? there are no significant mountain rainges in that direction form my house all the way to the ice wall. no reason to think the signal is coming form a pseudolite-
You do not understand where the sun is. You think the earth is round for heavens sake. Don't try and make astrological predictions when you are so woefully ill-educated on the matter.

You'll be telling me they are all pointing up at satellites in the sky, and not parallel at ground based stations next. ::)

What do ground based stations have to do with satellite TV?  ???
Because satellite TV is a misnomer. The signal comes from ground based stations. It should be called Psuedolite TV. Rupert Murdock's company Sky TV should really be called Ground TV, but he's in on it. >:(
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 02:04:59 AM by Thork »

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Conker

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 05:55:22 AM »
Ok Thork, after a 5 minutes search I found what I wanted: Satellital Frecuencies. You seem to think that every frecuency reflects into the ionosphere. Nope. Here is a graph that will help you. It shows the height were different frecuencies are reflected.


Here is a little help:

D layer (not shown): 60 km high, appears in daylight and absorves frecuencies below 10 MHz, protecting the Earth froms some lethal Cosmic waves.

E layer: 80-110 km high

F layers:180-600 km high. They lift on night time so they change their properties
   F1:180-300 km. Often fluctuates so much that mixes with F2
   F2:300-600 km. Highest layer.

Now look to the x axis on the graph. Itīs called "MHz" because other frecuencies are not reflected.

Here are the downlink frecuencies for the 3 more used satellital bands:

C Band   3.7 – 4.2 GHz

Ku Band   11.7 – 12.7 GHz

Ka Band   18.3 – 20.2 GHz



This is not a joke society.
Quote from: OpenedEyes
You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2011, 07:09:22 AM »
my dish points sout east too Thork. its not paralell to the ground, though it is a shallow angle up, maybe 20 degrees.
This is rare and unlikely. However assuming you are not just saying this to try and get a reaction I will tell you how it works anyway. If you live in a built up area or an area where terrain would be a problem, the 'satellite' company will use the ionoplane to hook you and that local area up with a skywave.

This way you get a signal when a ground wave would otherwise leave poor reception.

I dont think you want to travel down this road Thork.
1 - Thte kind of atmoshperic bounce and propogation you are speaking about is not consistent, based on very specific conditions, and only works with certain types of signals. Nammely AM and HAM radio. That is not to say that it is impossible to do what you say, but it is highly un reliable and not worht the effert.

2 - I live in a rural area of Eastern Washington state. its basicly flat here, and there are no built up areas. so how do they do it for me?

3 - since when is a 'skywave' a real thing, or a real peice of communications tech? (Other than the name of a company and a band)



Edit - which is just above where the sun would be over the south eastern horizon at midnight in the middle of winter if the earth were flat. Why would my dish need to point that high into the sky? there are no significant mountain rainges in that direction form my house all the way to the ice wall. no reason to think the signal is coming form a pseudolite-
You do not understand where the sun is. You think the earth is round for heavens sake. Don't try and make astrological predictions when you are so woefully ill-educated on the matter.
This is a laughable rebuttal even for you Thork. Did you forget that we are communicating inside the hub of Flat earth knolwdge and information? Did you forget that every peice of FE doctrine I could ever need is right here at my fingertips? I'll referr you to my very first post a couple years ago for a simple set of calculations that explains this.

1- The closest an observer at sea level can get to the sun is 3000 miles. (Summer, at noon, at the equator, on the equinox, with the sun directly overhead at 90deg to the plane of the earth you are standing on)

2- The furthest away you can get from the sun on the same day at the same conditions is to be at the "Ice wall" on the other side of the disc at night (and please do not post about guards or penguins) and that is about 18914 miles (the tangent of a right triangle where the leg from the sun to the ground is 3000 miles and the leg on the ground is 18675 miles or roughly 3/4 the diameter of the FE).

Ok if you are still with me after these simple assumptions please consider the following: At condition 1 the sun is directly overhead and no one supporting the FE theory should disagree that you will be able to see the sun. At condition 2 the sun is still 13.5deg off the horizon. Due to its dia of 32 miles it occupies just under 1/8 of a degree (.09) in the sky. That means that there is still plenty more than 13 degrees of clear sky below the sun and the horizon.

Its not hard to understand at all. its simple trig based on the 'facts' claimed by FE proponents. The sun will never be less than 10 degrees off the horizon on a FE even in the worst possible condiotions.

So my point stands: my dish points upwards enough to be over the suns position at night on the FE. Why would it need to point that high? 

Your god was nailed to a cross. Mine carries a hammer...... any questions?

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Ski

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 09:34:43 AM »
Home satellite dishes don't exactly need to be lined up with a specific pin-point to operate, just in a general direction. The actual signal could be coming from a variety of sources in that direction.

not really...go outside and point your satellite(if you have one) about 4 feet to the right or left..guarantee you that you will loose your signal
Four feet to the right or left would not be in the same general direction.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 09:36:17 AM by Ski »
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Ski

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 09:40:52 AM »
I dont think you want to travel down this road Thork.
1 - Thte kind of atmoshperic bounce and propogation you are speaking about is not consistent, based on very specific conditions, and only works with certain types of signals. Nammely AM and HAM radio. That is not to say that it is impossible to do what you say, but it is highly un reliable and not worht the effert.
Are you familiar with HAARP by chance?


Quote
3 - since when is a 'skywave' a real thing, or a real peice of communications tech? (Other than the name of a company and a band)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave


"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Conker

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2011, 10:32:26 AM »
Good job ignoring me, Thork / Ski
This is not a joke society.
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You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2011, 11:06:24 AM »
I dont think you want to travel down this road Thork.
1 - Thte kind of atmoshperic bounce and propogation you are speaking about is not consistent, based on very specific conditions, and only works with certain types of signals. Nammely AM and HAM radio. That is not to say that it is impossible to do what you say, but it is highly un reliable and not worht the effert.
Are you familiar with HAARP by chance?
not until now. Thank you for pointing me towards some interesting reading.

I still fail to see how the HAARP research facility is evidence that TV signals that we think are from satelites are using the ionosphere to get to our dishes after being broadcast from pseudolites. This is a facility dedicated to figuring this stuff out wich implies that we still need to figure out how to pull it off. Unless you think the facility is just a front to maintain the great conspiracy.


3 - since when is a 'skywave' a real thing, or a real peice of communications tech? (Other than the name of a company and a band)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skywave

Yeah I saw that wiki page too and I'm not sure what you are getting at by linking it. just because its possible to bounce certain wavelengths arround with some measure of certainty does not at all mean it lends credibility to Thorks arguements in this thread.

Besides all that:
1 - There is no need te defeat line of site issues on a round earth that do not exist on a flat earth.
2 - Using this ionosphere type EM proigation theory that is based on RE physics as evidence for a FE is not a good place to be. try to get some of your own tech.
3 - Conkers' posts destroys your agruements about weather or not it is even possible to transmit tv in this manner.

Good job ignoring me, Thork / Ski
Sorry Conker. I may hve distracted them for a bit.
Your god was nailed to a cross. Mine carries a hammer...... any questions?

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Ski

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Re: Amateur satellites
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2011, 12:50:05 PM »
Good job ignoring me, Thork / Ski

Not every signal need be broadcast from a ground transmitter. The issue of psuedollites and stratellites have been discussed so many times, it is much more likely that we are sick of repeating the conversation with someone unwilling to search for them.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."