On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham

SBR was a 'scientist' by day and a confidence man by night. He used his obvious showmanship abilities to wow people at lectures, and sell potions to unwitting customers.

SBR WAS A FRAUD.

Evidence?

Still no evidence?  Yawn.

Some good some not so good. A Doctor of any form was not one of those things. ^{[Citation needed]}

You all keep saying this with out a single scrap of evidence. There is nothing anywhere to suggest he is not a doctor. Nothing. Not a quote, citation, nothing. There is however a tombstone and several historical references that he is a doctor. That you choose to ignore this does not make him not a doctor.

As evident in his 'scientific' publiciations, SBR gravely misunderstood perspective, and vanishing points, geography, and simpole trig.

Sigh. No, its you that misunderstands perspective, and vanishing points, geography, and simpole^[sic] trig

He did greatly understand how to trick people and take advantage of people. His 'free  phosphorus' potion had no phosphorus in it. He sold that under the name Dr. Birley.

It did have phosphorus in it. Please stop making stuff up.
Analysis showed the presence of:
Sugar (partly as " invert sugar ") ... 74 parts
Tartaric acid ... ... ... ... 1.15
Phosphoric acid ... ... ... 0.07 part
Alcohol ... ... ... trace
Water to ... ... ... ... 100 fluid parts
What is Phosphoric acid made of? You can't have ruddy great lumps of phosphorus in it. That wouldn't be good for you. It would kill you. Yes he sold it under Dr Birley. He created a brand name so people would know who to get quality phosphorus from. Ever had a can of Dr Pepper? 

SBR was a 'scientist' by day and a confidence man by night. He used his obvious showmanship abilities to wow people at lectures, and sell potions to unwitting customers.

Unwitting? Confidence man? Rowbotham was not a criminal. You must provide evidence if you wish to pursue this ridiculous flight of fancy.

SBR WAS A FRAUD. FET needs a new diety. The Fanatical unrelenting devotion to such a clearly flawed character both in practice and in life only makes FE believers look silly.

Dr Rowbotham was not a fraud. He lectured about earth's shape and was an inventor and author which you seem to neglect. He worked extremely hard for decades founding our society and promoting it. No one has done more for TFES than Robowtham. I wish our current President had one hundredth the enthusiasm of Rowbotham. There are far worse leaders of FES than Rowbotham.

Quote from: pitdroidtech on October 29, 2011, 02:57:15 AM

Quote from: Ski on October 29, 2011, 02:07:21 AM

Noone has ever said that. Not one person has said, "It has to be true. Rowbotham was a doctor."  The only thing said on the matter was to deny the baseless assertions of a smear campaign.

Quote from: jroa on October 28, 2011, 02:51:10 PM

It is an attempt to discredit his qualifications in order to try to get the FE'ers to stop using his silly ancient experiments as proof.

Atleast he was honest. It is as if I said, "There is no evidence that pitdroidtech ever completed primary school" simply to discredit you to avoid addressing your salient points.

Actually I didn't complete primary school.

So why should we be wasting our time here listening to someone who didn't even finish primary school?

Your posts are obviously invalid because you didn't pass primary school.

Seems to be a theme among you RE'ers....

That's a really poor trolling effort there Tom.  Mis-quoting or short-quoting people just doesn't cut in the Troll League I'm afraid.

Ever had a can of Dr Pepper?

I was not aware that he is a real doctor either. I guess I learned something here today.

It did have phosphorus in it. Please stop making stuff up.
Analysis showed the presence of:
Sugar (partly as " invert sugar ") ... 74 parts
Tartaric acid ... ... ... ... 1.15
Phosphoric acid ... ... ... 0.07 part
Alcohol ... ... ... trace
Water to ... ... ... ... 100 fluid parts
What is Phosphoric acid made of? You can't have ruddy great lumps of phosphorus in it. That wouldn't be good for you. It would kill you. Yes he sold it under Dr Birley. He created a brand name so people would know who to get quality phosphorus from. Ever had a can of Dr Pepper? 

Typically, the human body gets its phosphorus from proteins in the form of phosphates.  Phosphoric acid is not a nutrient and has been linked with negative health benifits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphoric_acid#Biological_effects_on_bone_calcium_and_kidney_health

Phosphoric acid, used in many soft drinks (primarily cola), has been linked to lower bone density in epidemiological studies. For example, a study^[2] using dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry rather than a questionnaire about breakage, provides reasonable evidence to support the theory that drinking cola results in lower bone density.

So one moment. Dr Birley is a soft drink that is 100 parts water, 74 parts sugar and has trace Phosphoric acid in it like cola? Are you sure he wasn't selling cola?

On Topic:
Again, this could well be one of those things modern scientists are wrong about, and that Dr Rowbotham knew to be good for you.

EDIT: Even I am struggling to take me seriously with my halloween avatar. Cover my avatar and read my post.

If you eat a diet that contains sufficient protein, then there is no need for phosphorus supplements.

Are you sure everyone ate sufficient protein in the 1850's? At a time when diseases like scurvy and malnutrition were commonplace, it is likely there were plenty of people that would benefit from a phosphorus supplement. Even in 2011 people still top up with vitamin pills and minerals such are iron and omega 3 (which I don't know what it does but its in eggs and milk and people freak out about not getting enough).

This is all irrelevant. I think you owe the flat earthers of this website an apology, for trying to damage the reputation of one of their heroes. You have failed to provide any evidence as usual, and should express regret for any hurt and anguish your careless words may have caused.

So one moment. Dr Birley is a soft drink that is 100 parts water, 74 parts sugar and has trace Phosphoric acid in it like cola? Are you sure he wasn't selling cola?

Good point. Coca-Cola was originally advertised for its medicinal benefits in the 1800's. It's not too odd that a soft drink would be advertised with a medical twist. Maybe that's the only way they could sell these things back when carbonated soft-drinks were new and expensive.



"A valuable brain tonic, and a cure for all nervous affections -- sick head-ache, neuralgia, hysteria, melancholy."

I wouldn't really doubt that Coca-Cola could cure headaches or melancholy, considering the original Coca-Cola contained nerve stimulants and Cocaine.

SBR WAS A FRAUD. FET needs a new diety. The Fanatical unrelenting devotion to such a clearly flawed character both in practice and in life only makes FE believers look silly.

They have no one else to look up to, and they already look silly.

Good point. Coca-Cola was originally advertised for its medicinal benefits in the 1800's. It's not too odd that a soft drink would be advertised with a medical twist. Maybe that's the only way they could sell these things back when carbonated soft-drinks were new and expensive.

Did the Coca-Cola company (or any other cola manufacturer) ever promote phosphoric acid as a healthful ingredient?  Just as an FYI, one of the industrial uses of phosphoric acid is to clean rust off of metals being prepared for electroplating.

Quote from: Thork on October 29, 2011, 04:16:02 PM

So one moment. Dr Birley is a soft drink that is 100 parts water, 74 parts sugar and has trace Phosphoric acid in it like cola? Are you sure he wasn't selling cola?

Good point. Coca-Cola was originally advertised for its medicinal benefits in the 1800's. It's not too odd that a soft drink would be advertised with a medical twist. Maybe that's the only way they could sell these things back when carbonated soft-drinks were new and expensive.



"A valuable brain tonic, and a cure for all nervous affections -- sick head-ache, neuralgia, hysteria, melancholy."

I wouldn't really doubt that Coca-Cola could cure headaches or melancholy, considering the original Coca-Cola contained nerve stimulants and Cocaine.

So Coca-Cola started off as a sham too.  That does not bring credibility to SBR. 

Also, caffeine has been linked to reducing headaches.  I am not for sure, but I think it enhances the effects of pain killers, like aspirin.  Perhaps it had a similar effect when trace amounts of cocaine were added to Coca-Cola?  I duno.

Just as an FYI, one of the industrial uses of phosphoric acid is to clean rust off of metals being prepared for electroplating.

People used iron for building bridges, but you still find lots of it in cabbage and its good for you. Trace amounts is not the same as soaking a metal in a strong acid. Trace amounts Markjo.

Having seen Tom's post, Dr. Birleys Syrup of Free Phosphorous was likely a popular brand of cola.



Let me slam dunk an FE Win.

Like many early sodas, the drink was marketed as a brain tonic and energizing pick-me-up, so another theory holds that it was named for the pep it supposedly gave to users.

So inventor and entrepreneur Dr Samuel Birley Rowbotham also created and marketed a popular cola. Just another string to his bow. What a genius.

Analysis showed the presence of:
Sugar (partly as " invert sugar ") ... 74 parts
Tartaric acid ... ... ... ... 1.15
Phosphoric acid ... ... ... 0.07 part

From the Coca Cola Nutrition website

Phosphoric Acid
Phosphoric acid is a used in certain soft drinks, including Coca-Cola, to add tartness to the beverage. Phosphoric acid contains phosphorus, one of the basic elements of nature and an essential nutrient. Phosphorus is a major component of bones.

Tartaric Acid
Tartaric Acid is used to provide a tart taste. It can also be found in some foods, such as grapes.

Sugar
Sugar, also known as table sugar, is made from sugar cane or sugar beets. Sucrose is the technical name for table sugar.

Clearly Dr Rowbotham was making cola

Did the Coca-Cola company (or any other cola manufacturer) ever promote phosphoric acid as a healthful ingredient?

They still do! You will note to this day Coca-cola still brag about the benefits of Phosphorus in their drinks. They call it 'an essential nutrient'.

I'm still waiting for that apology Markjo.

Any proof he was either way yet? btw thork, is your avatar from new joisey?     

Any proof he was either way yet? btw thork, is your avatar from new joisey?     

My Halloween avatar is 5 mins using paint.net from my usual avatar ... this one.


All the evidence suggests he is a Doctor, and as we have recently found out, the CEO of a popular brand of Cola.

Being as Rowbotham died in 1884 and Dr Pepper was founded in ... 1885, I'm wondering if they didn't rip him off.

From Dr Birley's Syrup of Free Phosphorus we get ...


Look at this. Dr Pepper's Phos-Ferrates!

In 1885, in Waco, Texas, a young pharmacist called Charles Alderton invented the soft drink "Dr Pepper".

I call bullsh*t. I think Dr Rowbotham invented Dr Pepper.

Is that not a bit close to a guy previously selling a drink called Dr Birleys made from cola ingredients promoting its phosphorous benefits? I think the Flat Earth Society should sue!

Another example of a brilliant discovery brought about by a Zetetic mind.

Quote from: markjo on October 29, 2011, 10:54:55 PM

Did the Coca-Cola company (or any other cola manufacturer) ever promote phosphoric acid as a healthful ingredient?

They still do! You will note to this day Coca-cola still brag about the benefits of Phosphorus in their drinks. They call it 'an essential nutrient'.

I'm still waiting for that apology Markjo.

Please cite where The Coca-Cola company cites phosphoric acid as a healthful ingredient.  On the contrary, studies have linked phosphoric acid to bone loss. 

BTW, phosphoric acid is not a source of nutritional phosphorus, phosphates (as found in proteins) are.  I would suspect that if one couldn't afford to include sufficient protein in one's diet, then one probably couldn't afford Dr. Birley's miracle tonic either.

Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 04:25:37 AM

Quote from: markjo on October 29, 2011, 10:54:55 PM

Did the Coca-Cola company (or any other cola manufacturer) ever promote phosphoric acid as a healthful ingredient?

They still do! You will note to this day Coca-cola still brag about the benefits of Phosphorus in their drinks. They call it 'an essential nutrient'.

I'm still waiting for that apology Markjo.

Please cite where The Coca-Cola company cites phosphoric acid as a healthful ingredient.  On the contrary, studies have linked phosphoric acid to bone loss. 

BTW, phosphoric acid is not a source of nutritional phosphorus, phosphates (as found in proteins) are.  I would suspect that if one couldn't afford to include sufficient protein in one's diet, then one probably couldn't afford Dr. Birley's miracle tonic either.

Phosphoric Acid
Phosphoric acid is a used in certain soft drinks, including Coca-Cola, to add tartness to the beverage. Phosphoric acid contains phosphorus, one of the basic elements of nature and an essential nutrient. Phosphorus is a major component of bones.

Do you ever read the sources we give you? The Coca Cola company claim it is an essential nutrient and a major component of bones. I think the fact Dr Rowbotham was doing this before either Coca Cola or Dr Pepper existed and laid down the blue prints for a product they would copy, shows what a genius he was. He is shown inventing Dr Pepper Markjo. You are going to have to deal with it.

Another example of a brilliant discovery brought about by a Zetetic mind.

Thank you Xenu. I was helped by the agile mind of Dr Tom Bishop.

Do you ever read the sources we give you? The Coca Cola company claim it is an essential nutrient and a major component of bones.

And phosphoric acid in Coca-Cola is responsible for acid erosion in teeth.  I would think that any health benefits that phosphoric acid may provide are negated by the negative health benefits of large quantities of sugar and/or HFCS.

I think the fact Dr Rowbotham was doing this before either Coca Cola or Dr Pepper existed and laid down the blue prints for a product they would copy, shows what a genius he was. He is shown inventing Dr Pepper Markjo. You are going to have to deal with it.

No, he was shown inventing a tonic of questionable benefit.  Dr. Pepper uses carbonated water and 23 secret flavorings that Dr. Birley did not use.  Soda fountains have been in pharmacies since at least the 1820s where phosphate sodas became popular in the 1870s.  So, who was ripping who off?

You are missing the point Markjo. Dr Rowbotham was selling cola before any of the current giants of the industry. He was a pioneer. Just because Dr Pepper have since evolved their product to be called Dr Pepper's instead of Dr Birleys and have additional flavourings does not mean it didn't start from the mind of Rowbotham. Its still a sugary product with 'tart' flavouring caused by adding phosphoric acid and tartaric acid. Whether or not 130 years later people think certain ingredients mightn't be good for you is irrelevant.
Dr Rowbotham invented Dr Pepper. What a break through! If ever you wanted proof that Dr Rowbotham was a man of keen intellect, this is hard to top.

You are missing the point Markjo. Dr Rowbotham was selling cola before any of the current giants of the industry. He was a pioneer. Just because Dr Pepper have since evolved their product to be called Dr Pepper's instead of Dr Birleys and have additional flavourings does not mean it didn't start from the mind of Rowbotham. Its still a sugary product with 'tart' flavouring caused by adding phosphoric acid and tartaric acid. Whether or not 130 years later people think certain ingredients mightn't be good for you is irrelevant.
Dr Rowbotham invented Dr Pepper. What a break through! If ever you wanted proof that Dr Rowbotham was a man of keen intellect, this is hard to top.

You mean that Rowbotham was peddling non-carbonated, tart, sugar water before anyone else.  Next you'll be claiming that he invented lemonade (another tart, sweet, non-carbonated, healthful beverage).

You mean that Rowbotham was peddling non-carbonated, tart, sugar water before anyone else.

If you like. He is the grandfather of the soft-drinks industry.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 29, 2011, 09:28:21 PM

Quote from: Thork on October 29, 2011, 04:16:02 PM

So one moment. Dr Birley is a soft drink that is 100 parts water, 74 parts sugar and has trace Phosphoric acid in it like cola? Are you sure he wasn't selling cola?

Good point. Coca-Cola was originally advertised for its medicinal benefits in the 1800's. It's not too odd that a soft drink would be advertised with a medical twist. Maybe that's the only way they could sell these things back when carbonated soft-drinks were new and expensive.



"A valuable brain tonic, and a cure for all nervous affections -- sick head-ache, neuralgia, hysteria, melancholy."

I wouldn't really doubt that Coca-Cola could cure headaches or melancholy, considering the original Coca-Cola contained nerve stimulants and Cocaine.

So Coca-Cola started off as a sham too.  That does not bring credibility to SBR. 

Also, caffeine has been linked to reducing headaches.  I am not for sure, but I think it enhances the effects of pain killers, like aspirin.  Perhaps it had a similar effect when trace amounts of cocaine were added to Coca-Cola?  I duno.

Coca-Cola originally contained nerve tonics and cocaine. That advertisement isn't a sham. Nerve agents and cocaine can remedy head-ache, neuralgia, hysteria, and melancholy.

Quote from: markjo on October 30, 2011, 08:59:21 AM

You mean that Rowbotham was peddling non-carbonated, tart, sugar water before anyone else.

If you like. He is the grandfather of the soft-drinks industry.

Actually, he isn't.  Carbonated and non-carbonated mineral waters and tonics were around since at least the late 1700s.

Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 09:06:39 AM

Quote from: markjo on October 30, 2011, 08:59:21 AM

You mean that Rowbotham was peddling non-carbonated, tart, sugar water before anyone else.

If you like. He is the grandfather of the soft-drinks industry.

Actually, he isn't.  Carbonated and non-carbonated mineral waters and tonics were around since at least the late 1700s.

He laid the blue prints for companies like Coca Cola. Dr Pepper is none other than Dr Birley's syrup of free phosphorus. If you can't appreciate the kind of entrepreneurial mind required to invent and market such a product, it is a shame for you.

It's amazing.  The more we dig up about Dr Rowbotham, the more he seems to be one of the unsung heroes of the 19th century. 

It does seem like Dr. Birley's phosphorous products helped plant the roots for the Phosphate Soda industry. Dr. Birley led the phosphorous revolution in the 1800's, publishing numerous articles and books on the subject.

Here are a few examples:

Book: Phosphorus, as discovered and prepared by Dr. Birley

"In the year 1842, Dr. Birley drew public attention to the value of Phosphorus as an article of Diet and Medicine"

---

The end of this article references a book called "The Birley Treatment"



Rowbotham gives describes the discovery, benefits and workings of Phosphorous here in The Harmsworth



Then, after Rowotham's championing of the medicinal benefits of Phosphorus, the Phosphate soda industry is invented in the late 1870's:

Phosphate soda

A variant of soda in the United States called "phosphate soda" appeared in the late 1870s. It became one of the most popular soda fountain drinks from 1900 through the 1930s, with the lime or orange phosphate being the most basic. The drink consists of 1 US fl oz (30 ml) fruit syrup, 1/2 teaspoon of phosphoric acid, and enough carbonated water and ice to fill a glass. This drink was commonly served in pharmacies.

Note the bolded. Like Coca-Cola, most early soft drinks were advertised as medicines. Dr. Pepper was originally called "Dr. Pepper's Phos-Ferrates," and was advertised as a medical drink. Dr. Birley's phosphorous products were named similarly, (ie. Dr. Birley's Anti-Catarrh).

Indeed, according to modern sources, Phosphorous is agreed to be one of the most important elements in the human body:

Phosphorus in the human body

Despite the fact that it is a highly poisonous substance, phosphorus is one of the most important elements for human beings. It is said to be the second most abundant substance in the body. It is found in the bones, blood and bodily fluids. It is also found in various body organs such as the heart, the brain and the kidneys, where it plays a very important role in organ function. The main function of phosphorus is the production of bones and teeth. This makes phosphorus an essential nutrient for life to be normal.

How phosphorus works in the body

Almost all physiological chemical processes and reactions in the body are regulated by the presence of phosphorus. For phosphorus to function properly in the body, there should be Vitamin D and calcium available. It is essential in the strengthening and protection of cell membranes; it assists the other nutrients, chemicals and hormones to function properly. It is essential for good nerve impulses, normal functioning of the kidneys and the way fats, proteins and carbohydrates are synthesized for growth. It is also a part of DNA and RNA.

I just noticed that one of those articles tells us where Samuel Birley Rowbotham studied at:



(link)

He studied at the University of Edinburgh, founded in 1583, and one of the world's top 20 universities according to the wiki and website.

At Eidenbugh Rowbotham would have studied at the University of Edinburgh Medical School, which was in operation since the the early 1600's:

"Although the University of Edinburgh's Faculty of Medicine was not formally organised until 1726, medicine had been taught at Edinburgh since the beginning of the sixteenth century. Its formation was dependent on the incorporation of the Surgeons and Barber Surgeons, in 1505 and the foundation of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh in 1681."