On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham

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sirTheMore

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On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« on: October 10, 2011, 09:24:03 AM »
Dearest Sirs of these fora:
I do wish to inform you that this kind gentleman has begun an initial reading of Dr. Rowbotham's Earth Not a Globe, or ENAG as it is commonly referred to.  I have thoroughly enjoyed the first few pages of the proof of the earth's flatness and look forward to learning about the conclusions Dr. Rowbotham draws from this fact.  Many of the flat earth theories promoted on this site now make sense thanks to a cursory reading of this seminal work in flat earth literature.  Using the zetetic way I wish to offer my advice for new scholars looking to explore flat earth science: read ENAG!  It worked for this kind gentleman, and it can work for you as well!
Best and warmest,
sirTheMore


Kind gentlemen, I do wish to declare that although these fora are for the sole purpose of education of the flat earth, I would also enjoy expressing my gratitude for the opportunity to post in them.  Thank you all for your time and interest in this subject.

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Puttah

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 04:31:33 AM »
Is it just me or have most FEers taken a course in how to speak like a tool to flex your pseudo intelligence on the Internet?
Either that or this is just another alt. Take your pick.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 04:53:53 AM »
[1] Is it just me or have most FEers taken a course in how to speak like a tool to flex your pseudo intelligence on the Internet?
[2] Either that or this is just another alt. Take your pick.
1. It's just you. You generally like to notice a single exceptions and ignore the larger picture. It's just what you do.
2a. Jesus, man. Lurk the lime moar sometimes.
2b. Dear Puttah, my dearest of respected friends. I feel obliged to request that you lurk the limeing lime more because seriously, lime.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Son of Orospu

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 05:28:45 AM »
I tried to read ENaG.  I probably read around 60 percent of it online.  I just cringed at every inaccuracy that was provided and claimed to be with out a doubt true.  Like the body of water that is supposed to be at the center of the North Pole.  He just guessed at that, and incorrectly at that, and we are supposed to believe that he used a scientific (or zentetic) method to determine this?  I am not saying that science at the time this was written is expected to be completely accurate, but please stop referring people to this book if you agree that it has more holes than my spaghetti strainer.

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 07:12:01 AM »
I have to say that at the very least I have been well educated by this website. not about how modern science is all wrong and the great conspiracy consumes us all. Rather I have been educated by my knowlege/understanding being questioned in the most fundamental way. As much as I hate to say it this is fueled mostly by Tom Bishop.

This site really is a fairly grassroots thought experiment. It has worked to my benefit for the last 4 years. Every time I see some pseudoscience BS presented as fact I spend sometimes days finding literature and educating myself on the basics and learning about the world arround me. Then I come back like a perma noob and try to argue about it with people who already know what i am trying to convince them about. 

So having said all that... back to the point

sirTheMore: As I have read both editions of ENAG by SBR (not a doctor), I caution you to be skeptical and question the data presented. Also be cautious of the conclusions and assumption presented by SBR. As an objective reader I doubt you will find the works of SBR to be suffiecient evidence of the planar nature of the earth. Enjoy the read, though it is quite boring at times.
Your god was nailed to a cross. Mine carries a hammer...... any questions?

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 11:41:30 AM »
Sentient Pizza, I know what you mean.

The notion that you question the facts which are presented to you by others is excellent. FET, if nothing else, is a supreme metaphor for this. Why believe things because you're told that others do, or that, if you don't, you're in a minority and are thus automatically wrong? Clever people ask questions.

The trouble with such enlightened, questioning thinking is that quite often you'll find out that the things you've been told are correct. However the very fact that you've taken the trouble to question them and demand evidence and proof, means that there's no dishonour in finding out that, yes, the things you've been told are correct. You deserve a big handshake or hug for not accepting them and having to have theie proponents explain them.

However, FEers, however much they espouse this think-for-yourself attitude, are hobbled by the fact that they aren't allowed to give an inch on FET. They are bound to oppose anything which might indicate the world isn't flat. Suddenly such ideas of free-thought and the questioning of evidence flees them, as they have to automatically gainsay the points made which might point to a roundy element to the planet.

I adore so much of the elegance of thought which goes into the rebuttal of RE theory that when such blunt idiocies as moon shrimp, anti-moons, NASA conspiracies and so on rear their stupid heads it's like watching an artist use his childish fist to squash black paint over a work of delicately constructed genius. Ditto ad hominem attacks which, I have to say, FEers undertake far less, to their eternal credit.

But talking in some embarrassing faux-Regency manner like the OP (and occasionally, those in the Believers' area) does even more harm. Some of you FE folk are CLEVER. That's what makes this site worth revisiting.

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hoppy

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 03:21:37 PM »
Dearest Sirs of these fora:
I do wish to inform you that this kind gentleman has begun an initial reading of Dr. Rowbotham's Earth Not a Globe, or ENAG as it is commonly referred to.  I have thoroughly enjoyed the first few pages of the proof of the earth's flatness and look forward to learning about the conclusions Dr. Rowbotham draws from this fact.  Many of the flat earth theories promoted on this site now make sense thanks to a cursory reading of this seminal work in flat earth literature.  Using the zetetic way I wish to offer my advice for new scholars looking to explore flat earth science: read ENAG!  It worked for this kind gentleman, and it can work for you as well!
Best and warmest,
sirTheMore

 STM have you found proof of the earth being flat in your research? Is ENaG sufficient proof?
 Thanks in advance.

God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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sirTheMore

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 07:16:56 AM »
sirTheMore: As I have read both editions of ENAG by SBR (not a doctor), I caution you to be skeptical and question the data presented. Also be cautious of the conclusions and assumption presented by SBR. As an objective reader I doubt you will find the works of SBR to be suffiecient evidence of the planar nature of the earth. Enjoy the read, though it is quite boring at times.

DrSBR is quite logical in his approach to the zetetic experiments carefully conducted.  Anyone can reproduce these experiments and find out for themselves if DrSBR is indeed correct.  Just because he says something doesn't make it true, however the Doctor's work has reinforced and confirmed the beliefs of many on this site (including myself) and gives the wise zetetic a published work to point to when the globularist n00b visits and bawwws "ZOMG Y DON U GAIS HAVE N E PUBLISHED BOOKS N STUFF!?!?!?!?"

Kind gentlemen, I do wish to declare that although these fora are for the sole purpose of education of the flat earth, I would also enjoy expressing my gratitude for the opportunity to post in them.  Thank you all for your time and interest in this subject.

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Thork

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 07:30:20 AM »
As I have read both editions of ENAG by SBR (not a doctor)
You should really do some research before you start besmirching Rowbotham.

Quote from: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=7368594&PIpi=625886
The inscription reads : 'Samuel Rowbotham, M.D., Ph.D., Founder of Zetetical Philosophy, died suddenly Decr. 23rd. 1884.
If you click the link you can read RoBo's grave inscription for yourself.
Now certainly in Britain (Rowbotham's homeland) if you have a Ph.D (Doctorate) you may call yourself a doctor of that science. So Dr Samuel Birley Rowbotham is entirely correct. In case you are in any doubt about that, M.D. stands for medical doctor, so he was a doctor twice over. A doctor doctor.

Doctor doctor, I think the world is flat!
Good, then your senses are in full working order.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 07:44:27 AM by Thork »

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General Disarray

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 09:19:06 AM »
So if I pay someone to carve "M.D., Ph.D." on my gravestone, that's all it takes to become a doctor? Wow, everyone's pretty stupid for paying to go to med/grad school
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Ski

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 09:45:21 AM »
Is it legal for you to do so?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 10:33:39 AM »
I challenge you Thork, to produce a record of SBR's formal education. I can only find one other place where he was evere referred to as a doctor (other than his tombstone and this website). He credited himself as a doctor as the author of a book he wrote.

If he was a doctor of any kind it would be easy information to find. Every other doctor name I have searched comes along with a wiki page where the education of the individual is listed allong with other honors.

SBR was not a Doctor. Writing it on a tonbstone does not make it so. Calling yourself doctor does not make it so. Stick feathers in your ass does not make you a chicken.

SBR was not a doctor. I challenge you to present evidence to the contrary. Any thing like a link to a record of the degree he recieved. This should contain the school, the date of the award, and the area of study. Good luck.
Your god was nailed to a cross. Mine carries a hammer...... any questions?

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sirTheMore

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 10:41:22 AM »
I challenge you Thork, to produce a record of SBR's formal education. I can only find one other place where he was evere referred to as a doctor (other than his tombstone and this website). He credited himself as a doctor as the author of a book he wrote.

If he was a doctor of any kind it would be easy information to find. Every other doctor name I have searched comes along with a wiki page where the education of the individual is listed allong with other honors.

SBR was not a Doctor. Writing it on a tonbstone does not make it so. Calling yourself doctor does not make it so. Stick feathers in your ass does not make you a chicken.

SBR was not a doctor. I challenge you to present evidence to the contrary. Any thing like a link to a record of the degree he recieved. This should contain the school, the date of the award, and the area of study. Good luck.


By what standard, Mr. Pizza, do you judge a gentleman as "Doctor" or "Not a Doctor"?  And why should DrSBR and the fine members of these fora adhere to your standard?
Warmest,
sirTheMore


Kind gentlemen, I do wish to declare that although these fora are for the sole purpose of education of the flat earth, I would also enjoy expressing my gratitude for the opportunity to post in them.  Thank you all for your time and interest in this subject.

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Thork

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 11:02:42 AM »
SBR was not a doctor. I challenge you to present evidence to the contrary. Any thing like a link to a record of the degree he recieved. This should contain the school, the date of the award, and the area of study. Good luck.
You have to pay for census or public records like that. But we have plenty of references to him being a doctor all over the net. There is nothing to suggest he isn't? Why would you even bring up such a thing?

I stumbled upon this though. It made me laugh. Read the last few lines.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_do_creationists_believe_about_the_origin_of_species_and_the_earth

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 11:45:10 AM »
By what standard, Mr. Pizza, do you judge a gentleman as "Doctor" or "Not a Doctor"?  And why should DrSBR and the fine members of these fora adhere to your standard?
Warmest,
sirTheMore

I think you mis understand my intention here. I am making no standard nor should anyone adhere to a standard I make. However the standard has been set by the population of this world gong back many generations and is not suspect to my personal scrutiny or ambitions. A simple articl for your reference here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr.

its not a complicated matter. the man has completed the proper formal education or he has not. there is no evidence that SBR completed that level of education. Thus calling him doctor is not warranted.

I am curious to know how the read is coming and what specifics you find interesting or compelling as to the shap of the earth.


You have to pay for census or public records like that.
Thats laughable. Pay for public records? all you have to know are a couple details and you can query and university arround the world. They will gladly confirm the alumni status of anyone. This is expecially true for such notable and famous people in history as SBR. Universities love to claim their alumni.
[/quote]


But we have plenty of references to him being a doctor all over the net.
Please provide some. I could only find this forrum, authors notes form one of his books, and you links about his tobmstone and the wiki answers question

There is nothing to suggest he isn't?
incorrect. please see above. There is nothing suggesting he IS.

Why would you even bring up such a thing?
Because he is was not a Doctor. Playing one on TV does not make you one, nor should claiming to be, be evidence for such.

I stumbled upon this though. It made me laugh. Read the last few lines.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_do_creationists_believe_about_the_origin_of_species_and_the_earth
I agree. The last few lines are pretty good. Made me smile.
Your god was nailed to a cross. Mine carries a hammer...... any questions?

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Thork

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2011, 12:24:11 PM »
its not a complicated matter. the man has completed the proper formal education or he has not. there is no evidence that SBR completed that level of education. Thus calling him doctor is not warranted.
Is his tombstone with his full name and qualification not evidence? Carved in stone for all time? Why are you saying there is no evidence. Look at the stone. It says he had both a Ph.D and was an M.D.

You have to pay for census or public records like that.
Thats laughable. Pay for public records? all you have to know are a couple details and you can query and university arround the world. They will gladly confirm the alumni status of anyone. This is expecially true for such notable and famous people in history as SBR. Universities love to claim their alumni.
And how do I find out where he attended university? Am I supposed to ask them all and see if any claim him? Help me out. I would be as interested as you to find out which university he attended. If it is so easy, point me in the right direction. If its not that simple, then its not laughable is it?

But we have plenty of references to him being a doctor all over the net.
Please provide some. I could only find this forrum, authors notes form one of his books, and you links about his tobmstone and the wiki answers question
Really you could just google "Dr Samuel Birley Rowbowtham" to get sources.
Quote from: http://lubbockonline.com/editorials/2011-01-17/letters-editor
Members quote 19th century British lecturer, Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham; modern day leader, Samuel Shenton and even Aristotle!
Quote from: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NLkM-biTlocJ:www.class.uidaho.edu/eng207-td/JW%2520essay+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk
Nonetheless, they do claim that their ideas descend from the “[prestigious] Dr. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a 19th century lecturer who traveled the isles of Britain giving lectures at many prominent universities of the day” (The Flat Earth Society).
Quote from: http://www.archive.org/stream/dictionaryofanon04halkuoft/dictionaryofanon04halkuoft_djvu.txt
ROWBOTHAM, Dr Samuel (1849) 2853
Now please provide one shred of evidence to cast doubt on his education.

There is nothing to suggest he isn't?
incorrect. please see above. There is nothing suggesting he IS.
Except this ruddy great stone with his qualifications carved into it and references to his qualifications all over the internet and in books.

Why would you even bring up such a thing?
Because he is was not a Doctor. Playing one on TV does not make you one, nor should claiming to be, be evidence for such.
TV was not invented. Its not him claiming he is a doctor. I doubt very much he carved his own tombstone. Very few people do.

Without a single reason for us to doubt his qualifications, but lots of things suggesting he is a doctor, you really need to dig deep. Without a source to suggest he is not a doctor or one saying he has lied about it, one can only assume any pursuit of this subject is trolling. Not even his detractors of the day cast doubt on his academic credentials.

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General Disarray

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2011, 12:32:57 PM »
Again, carving something in stone doesn't make it true.

Are you just going to take someone's word for it in this instance, and not take the word of anyone who says they have orbited a round earth? Pseudo-skepticism at its finest.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Thork

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2011, 12:35:32 PM »
I haven't seen anything to suggest he is not a doctor. Nothing. Not one single source from any of you. All the evidence suggests he is and that is the most reasonable conclusion.

Without a source to suggest he is not a doctor or one saying he has lied about it, one can only assume any pursuit of this subject is trolling.
I am not surprised you pursued this subject with no evidence Mr Disarray (I have not seen any evidence of you being a General).

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Ski

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2011, 12:40:29 PM »
Quote from: Science, Volume 5 by the American Association for the Advancement of Science, January-June 1885
— We observe this note in a late number of the Athenaeum: '• ' РАRRALAX' is dead! Dr. Samuel Rowbotham used this name as the author of ' Zetetic astronomy,' and he was well known by it as a lecturer on such subjects as 'the earth not a globe.' The doctor, some years before his death, directed his 'seeking philosophy' to chemistry; but we never heard of any discovery resulting from his search."
Clearly his contemporary detractors were more fair than the like of you. Even they did not do him the disservice of removing his rightful appellation.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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The Knowledge

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2011, 12:58:35 PM »
I haven't seen anything to suggest he is not a doctor. Nothing. Not one single source from any of you. All the evidence suggests he is and that is the most reasonable conclusion.

Without a source to suggest he is not a doctor or one saying he has lied about it, one can only assume any pursuit of this subject is trolling.
I am not surprised you pursued this subject with no evidence Mr Disarray (I have not seen any evidence of you being a General).

He was awarded General status by the same institution that gave Tom Bishop his doctorate.  ;)
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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General Disarray

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2011, 01:00:20 PM »
I haven't seen anything to suggest he is not a doctor. Nothing. Not one single source from any of you. All the evidence suggests he is and that is the most reasonable conclusion.

So you want me to prove a negative?

What institution awarded Mr. Rowbotham a doctorate?
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Thork

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2011, 01:02:11 PM »
 ???

Who is Mr. Rowbotham?

So you want me to prove a negative?
Provide a reference showing he there is any doubt as to his qualifications Mr Disarray.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 01:07:46 PM by Thork »

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General Disarray

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2011, 01:07:59 PM »
I'd love to see a tombstone but you haven't done the honourable thing yet. Provide anything you like.

>Implying a tombstone proves anything at all

I repeat the question:

What institution awarded Mr. Rowbotham a doctorate?
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Thork

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 01:08:30 PM »
What institution awarded Mr. Rowbotham a doctorate?

???

Who is Mr. Rowbotham?

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Ski

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2011, 01:09:47 PM »
I haven't seen anything to suggest he is not a doctor. Nothing. Not one single source from any of you. All the evidence suggests he is and that is the most reasonable conclusion.

So you want me to prove a negative?

I'd settle for any evidence at all, other than your blatant mind-warping bias that he was not a doctor. Every contemporary reference I have seen calls him by that title.

"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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General Disarray

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 01:09:52 PM »
ANOTHER VICTORY FOR ROUND EARTH!!!!!!!!!
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Thork

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 01:10:54 PM »
Dumb bear. ::)

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Ski

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2011, 01:14:20 PM »
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Tausami

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Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2011, 01:34:55 PM »
I haven't seen anything to suggest he is not a doctor. Nothing. Not one single source from any of you. All the evidence suggests he is and that is the most reasonable conclusion.

So you want me to prove a negative?

What institution awarded Mr. Rowbotham a doctorate?

It's  not proving a negative. You are claiming that Dr. Rowboatham did not get a doctorate. Thus, the burden of proof is on you.

Re: On the Notion of Dr. Samuel Rowbotham
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2011, 01:38:59 PM »
I haven't seen anything to suggest he is not a doctor. Nothing. Not one single source from any of you. All the evidence suggests he is and that is the most reasonable conclusion.

So you want me to prove a negative?

What institution awarded Mr. Rowbotham a doctorate?

It's  not proving a negative. You are claiming that Dr. Rowboatham did not get a doctorate. Thus, the burden of proof is on you.

It's more reasonable for the people claiming that he has a doctorate to assume the burden of proof.