The map you base your theory on, is WRONG.

Imagine summer for the southern hemisphere. on a RE it would look like so:



- day/night divide is at an angle of 23.5 degrees.

this holds true for all sunset/sunrise times across the globe. Feel free to search for these times, they WILL fit together.

So, lets translate the above onto a FE map:



wait, what?!?! wheres this light at the far ice wall coming from?! and why is the north pole dark when south america is further away, but still light?

surely it would look more like this on a FE, (assuming a circular spotlight sun, that reaches to 23.5 degrees from the north pole):



wait, thats not even close either, only a quarter of the earth is light...

if someone explains this away ill be impressed.

Those are illustrations, not evidence. I could make a thread "Look at these illustrations, they prove that the earth is a torus."

accurate illustrations. i used your FE map, is that not accurate? and i used a fairly arbitrary picture of a global earth, i may as well have used a circle for that, it was not required to be accurate. I did however take a protractor to ensure my line was at 23.5 degrees, which is the only important part of the image.

but if my illustrations are so completely wrong, can you suggest how they should look?

accurate illustrations. i used your FE map, is that not accurate? and i used a fairly arbitrary picture of a global earth, i may as well have used a circle for that, it was not required to be accurate. I did however take a protractor to ensure my line was at 23.5 degrees, which is the only important part of the image.

but if my illustrations are so completely wrong, can you suggest how they should look?

First off, your entire post assumes that RET is correct. You haven't demonstrated this. Did you go to those places and time the length of day?

Second off, your post assumes that the FET map is accurate. You haven't demonstrated this. If you lurked a bit you would find that there are other ideas on how a Flat Earth may be laid out.

Until you can reconcile how the earth is truly laid out and what kind of daylight each part of its surface receives throughout the year, your illustrations tell us nothing.

Oh, and don't bother to post daylight calculators from the internet. Those are calculators based on how light might behave if the earth were a globe, not from testimonials on how it really behaves.

Until you can reconcile how the earth is truly laid out and what kind of daylight each part of its surface receives throughout the year, your illustrations tell us nothing.

Oh, and don't bother to post daylight calculators from the internet. Those are calculators based on how light might behave if the earth were a globe, not from testimonials on how it really behaves.

Tom, we have a layout of the earth that totally fits the patterns of night and day. You don't. Furthermore, several posters on this forum have verified predicted times match reality in more than one location.

Tom, we have a layout of the earth that totally fits the patterns of night and day.

Source?

You don't. Furthermore, several posters on this forum have verified predicted times match reality in more than one location.

Source?

Quote

Tom, we have a layout of the earth that totally fits the patterns of night and day.

Source?

Quote

You don't. Furthermore, several posters on this forum have verified predicted times match reality in more than one location.

Source?

1. It's called having the land laid out on a sphere shape orbiting the sun. By an AMAZING COINCIDENCE, this results in a pattern of night and day which EXACTLY fits the known properties of light falling on an object.

2. Do a search you lazy pig. I remember there was a lot of trolling from you in those threads though, so your own post history should be a good place to start.

Quote

You don't. Furthermore, several posters on this forum have verified predicted times match reality in more than one location.

Source?

I did it in western washington.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49558.msg1219713#msg1219713

Have you ever made and tested a sundial? I have. Sundial shadows match RE solar calculators.

ok if you REALLY get hissy, then you can insist that your map of FE is just wrong.

but please, go ahead and do so, because it just doesnt work. so you then have to rewrite a large portion of the accepted FE theory. create a map of a flat earth that behaves exactly as it should, THEN people might actually realise that you guys are for real.

As for sunset/rise, ive been to the canary islands in the summer, i can promise you that the sun rose and set at 6:00 and 18:00. I can assure you my dad has been to northern sweden, inside the arctic circle in the summer and had 23 or so hours of sunlight. you cannot legitimately argue that RE doesnt fit with reality's sunsets and rises.

I'm surprised that the times of sunrise and sunset are up for question. If you really doubt that the widely accepted figures are correct, then there are plenty of webcams all over the world you can use to check the accuracy of the times yourself.

I'm surprised that the times of sunrise and sunset are up for question. If you really doubt that the widely accepted figures are correct, then there are plenty of webcams all over the world you can use to check the accuracy of the times yourself.

na lol da conspirisy chaynjiz da webcam 2 mayk it luk dark and nowun at da webcam reelyzis dat de webcam sez its dark but its akchelly lite owtsyde lol

With so many people all over the world, you would think that someone would have noticed that the sun does not rise or set at the times that scientists have calculated.  Tom, I think it is reasonable to say that the sunset and sunrise times can be considered to be accurate with out having to measure them ourselves.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on October 09, 2011, 04:35:46 PM

Quote

You don't. Furthermore, several posters on this forum have verified predicted times match reality in more than one location.

Source?

I did it in western washington.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=49558.msg1219713#msg1219713

Have you ever made and tested a sundial? I have. Sundial shadows match RE solar calculators.

You didn't verify sunrise and sunset times in that thread.

ok if you REALLY get hissy, then you can insist that your map of FE is just wrong.

but please, go ahead and do so, because it just doesnt work. so you then have to rewrite a large portion of the accepted FE theory. create a map of a flat earth that behaves exactly as it should, THEN people might actually realise that you guys are for real.

We never claimed that the map was verified to be accurate. It's a rendering of how a Flat Earth may work.

As for sunset/rise, ive been to the canary islands in the summer, i can promise you that the sun rose and set at 6:00 and 18:00. I can assure you my dad has been to northern sweden, inside the arctic circle in the summer and had 23 or so hours of sunlight. you cannot legitimately argue that RE doesnt fit with reality's sunsets and rises.

23 hours of sunlight near the North Pole is possible in an FE model.

I'm surprised that the times of sunrise and sunset are up for question. If you really doubt that the widely accepted figures are correct, then there are plenty of webcams all over the world you can use to check the accuracy of the times yourself.

There are not webcams all over the world looking at the sun set and rise from the horizon. You can't tell when the sun sets just by looking at a scene casually dim into darkness. The sky is still relatively lit from the sun after it sets, from the sun's light bouncing off of the atmosphere.

With so many people all over the world, you would think that someone would have noticed that the sun does not rise or set at the times that scientists have calculated.  Tom, I think it is reasonable to say that the sunset and sunrise times can be considered to be accurate with out having to measure them ourselves.

Appeal to popularity fallacy.

It's 2011 and 98% of the population believes in the existence of an invisible fairy who lives in the sky. Don't you think someone would have noticed that this invisible fairy does not exist?

It's 1930 and doctors are publicly promoting the health benefits of cigarettes on radio and in print advertisements. With all of these doctors backing the product, and the product having been around for hundreds of years, don't you think one of them would have noticed that cigarettes cause lung cancer?

It's 1630 and the majority of the civilized world believes in the existence of witches. Don't you think someone would have noticed that witches do not exist?

The public believes what they are taught to believe. Scientists believe what they are taught to believe. Belief has nothing to do with truth.

There are not webcams all over the world looking at the sun set and rise from the horizon. You can't tell when the sun sets just by looking at a scene casually dim into darkness. The sky is still relatively lit from the sun after it sets, from the sun's light bouncing off of the atmosphere.

Why do you need such precision? The tolerance provided just by the light levels seen in the webcams is more than sufficient to tell which model is more reliable for predicting the times of sunrise and sunset.

And why do you say there aren't webcams pointing towards where the Sun rises or sets? There are a a lot of webcams around.

And why do you say there aren't webcams pointing towards where the Sun rises or sets? There are a a lot of webcams around.

Please prove that there are webcams all over the world looking at the sun set and rise from the horizon.

Quote from: NTheGreat on October 10, 2011, 12:08:10 PM

And why do you say there aren't webcams pointing towards where the Sun rises or sets? There are a a lot of webcams around.

Please prove that there are webcams all over the world looking at the sun set and rise from the horizon.

http://rizeandset.com/
Not necessarily looking at the rising or setting sun, but it should give you an idea of when those events are occurring.

Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 10, 2011, 12:53:13 PM

Quote from: NTheGreat on October 10, 2011, 12:08:10 PM

And why do you say there aren't webcams pointing towards where the Sun rises or sets? There are a a lot of webcams around.

Please prove that there are webcams all over the world looking at the sun set and rise from the horizon.

http://rizeandset.com/
Not necessarily looking at the rising or setting sun, but it should give you an idea of when those events are occurring.

Weren't you the one arguing that the sun was as far blow the horizon as the moon is above the horizon in this daytime eclipse picture which should be impossible in RET?

Weren't you the one arguing that the sun was as far blow the horizon as the moon is above the horizon in this daytime eclipse picture which should be impossible in RET?

The moon is not totally eclipsed in that photograph.  Also, long exposure photographs on nights of the full moon (especially of snowy terrain) can be quite well lit.

Quote

ok if you REALLY get hissy, then you can insist that your map of FE is just wrong.

but please, go ahead and do so, because it just doesnt work. so you then have to rewrite a large portion of the accepted FE theory. create a map of a flat earth that behaves exactly as it should, THEN people might actually realise that you guys are for real.

We never claimed that the map was verified to be accurate. It's a rendering of how a Flat Earth may work.

Then before insisting that the earth is flat, find a map of what a flat earth looks like that could actually be plausible.

its also the widely accepted map, referred to by many members here, thereby invalidating  any assumptions made by that map.

not having a working map is a serious, serious flaw in this website and forum. its been around 10 years now, you cannot deny that it is a gaping hole in FET.

Please prove that there are webcams all over the world looking at the sun set and rise from the horizon.

That's quite the request. Well, there won't be any that look at the Sun both setting and rising, as in most places these events happen in two significantly different directions.

Personally I think that observing the Sun itself rise and set is a little excessive. Just watching light levels should be an accurate enough method of estimating the shape of the Sun's spotlight. I suppose I can sit down and work out which cameras are pointing in the direction the sun rises or sets at this time of year, if that's that you really want.

There are thousands of the things through, so it will take quite a while. I think just watching light levels is a better option.

Quote from: jroa on October 10, 2011, 10:53:27 AM

With so many people all over the world, you would think that someone would have noticed that the sun does not rise or set at the times that scientists have calculated.  Tom, I think it is reasonable to say that the sunset and sunrise times can be considered to be accurate with out having to measure them ourselves.

Appeal to popularity fallacy.

It's 2011 and 98% of the population believes in the existence of an invisible fairy who lives in the sky. Don't you think someone would have noticed that this invisible fairy does not exist?

It's 1930 and doctors are publicly promoting the health benefits of cigarettes on radio and in print advertisements. With all of these doctors backing the product, and the product having been around for hundreds of years, don't you think one of them would have noticed that cigarettes cause lung cancer?

It's 1630 and the majority of the civilized world believes in the existence of witches. Don't you think someone would have noticed that witches do not exist?

The public believes what they are taught to believe. Scientists believe what they are taught to believe. Belief has nothing to do with truth.

Tom,

I agree with you that just because the majority of people think something is true, it does not make it true.  However, for once, we are not talking about something that a person is supposed to blindly believe, like magic, germs, gravity, or UA.  With exceptions, almost everyone has seen a sunrise and sunset in their life time.  This is not being debated.  But the time at which the sunset/sunrise apparently is.

For many of us, we know that the sun has risen or set, but we probably do not take an interest to find out if it happens at the time it was predicted.  However, there are a lot of people all across the world who do have a great interest in the timing of the sun's appearance and disappearance for various reasons.  Some examples include sailors, military personnel, astronomers, and even farmers.

I spent 8 years as an infantryman in the USMC.  I can personally attest to the importance of knowing the correct time of sunset and sunrise for tactical reasons.  The twilight around sunrise and sunset makes an excellent time to launch an attack.  This is because you have enough light to get into position for the attack and successfully execute the plan, yet you still have enough darkness to provide some cover for your movements.  The exact time in which the sun will set or rise is an important element of many military orders for both offensive and defensive reasons.

I have been a part of military exercises in 4 countries including the US.  5 if you count Hawaii separately from the mainland due to its remoteness.  One of those countries, Chile, was in the southern hemisphere.  I can tell you from personal experience that I obtained or was provided sunrise and sunset times in each of these locations and found no discrepancy in the predicted and actual sunrise or sunset.  Before you ask, no I did not purposely look at my watch at the instant sunrise/set occurred with the purpose of noting whether it was exactly accurate with the times that were predicted.  However, being a non-commissioned officer, I was responsible for making sure that the Marines under my supervision were 100 percent ready before and after the sunrise/set.    When I observed that sunrise should be in 40 minutes, it was, even if it was not down to the exact minute or second.

Most of the time, the sunrise/set times were obtained from The United States Navy Observatory.  Before you try to say that I was given accurate information by the government that civilians are not privy to, the exact same information is available to anyone who wants to check the actual time at http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications.  This is the exact same site that I have researched data from when I was still in the military.

While my own personal testimony does not cover the entire Earth, although it does cover a broad range and makes good sampling data, there are so many people across the Earth that have had the same experiences that I do not see how someone, somewhere, would not have caught on if we were being lied to.

Tom, I say again what I said earlier.  I think it is safe to say that we can assume the time calculations to be true, even if we do not take personal measurements at every point across the entire world.

By the way, where I live, the link above predicted that twilight would start at 7:03 a.m. and sunrise would be at 7:28 a.m.  I can not see a good view of the horizon from my house due to trees and terrain; however, the prediction appeared to be true.  My back yard had light in it shortly after 7:00 a.m. and was very well lit by 7:30 a.m.  I am planning a trip to the Atlantic coast with my wife within the next couple of weeks and I can post exact times for the sunrise over the horizon; however, I do not think I will be able to get sunset confirmation at the same time.  That is, unless we can agree that the time predictions made by The United States Navy Observatory are not up for debate.

Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 10, 2011, 12:53:13 PM

Please prove that there are webcams all over the world looking at the sun set and rise from the horizon.

That's quite the request. Well, there won't be any that look at the Sun both setting and rising

Oh, so your claim was moot. Well, at least you know when to admit it.

Oh, so your claim was moot. Well, at least you know when to admit it.

I never claimed there were webcams pointing to where the Sun rises and sets. I said there are webcams pointing to where the Sun rises or sets.

Although, I suppose you could try searching for controllable webcams. I don't know if you'll find that many around, through. I would just stick to monitoring light levels. It's sufficiently accurate for the problem at hand.

The Aetheric Wind model explains this phenomena.

The Aetheric Wind model explains this phenomena.

Would you care to elaborate?

Quote from: Tausami on October 11, 2011, 12:13:39 PM

The Aetheric Wind model explains this phenomena.

Would you care to elaborate?

I only actually have about half of my reasoning down. It's because aether, being a step above plasma (actually two or more, taking the Quark-gluon plasma into account) logically glows incredibly bright. I'm just working on why night exists.

The Aetheric Wind model explains this phenomena.

Wasn't this the one John Davis was meant to be publishing a book about? Where can we buy this book?

Quote from: Tausami on October 11, 2011, 12:13:39 PM

The Aetheric Wind model explains this phenomena.

Wasn't this the one John Davis was meant to be publishing a book about? Where can we buy this book?

No, it's my own. It postulates that the Earth is propelled by aether

Quote from: The Knowledge on October 11, 2011, 04:13:13 PM

Quote from: Tausami on October 11, 2011, 12:13:39 PM

The Aetheric Wind model explains this phenomena.

Wasn't this the one John Davis was meant to be publishing a book about? Where can we buy this book?

No, it's my own. It postulates that the Earth is propelled by aether

1) Do we all get to make up these hilarious models?
2) How can any of this rubbish possibly be more scientifically accurate than all of the mainstream theories you have discarded due to being "based on conjecture?" Every time you post more nonsense, baby Jesus soils himself in disgust.

Quote from: Tausami on October 11, 2011, 07:01:33 PM

Quote from: The Knowledge on October 11, 2011, 04:13:13 PM

Quote from: Tausami on October 11, 2011, 12:13:39 PM

The Aetheric Wind model explains this phenomena.

Wasn't this the one John Davis was meant to be publishing a book about? Where can we buy this book?

No, it's my own. It postulates that the Earth is propelled by aether

1) Do we all get to make up these hilarious models?
2) How can any of this rubbish possibly be more scientifically accurate than all of the mainstream theories you have discarded due to being "based on conjecture?" Every time you post more nonsense, baby Jesus soils himself in disgust.

1) No
2) Because the Earth has been proven to be flat. Also, good.