Bendy Light, Bendy Earth

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2012, 08:10:33 AM »
Once again, Wilmore, whether it's "direct sensorial evidence" or not, you're using the appearance of earth's curvature to explain the horizon with bendy light.  Just because you don't connect the dots in your own mind doesn't make it untrue.
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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2012, 03:56:28 PM »
Once again, Wilmore, whether it's "direct sensorial evidence" or not, you're using the appearance of earth's curvature to explain the horizon with bendy light.  Just because you don't connect the dots in your own mind doesn't make it untrue.

I think I see the problem here; you completely misunderstand the point.

The Earth does not appear curved because it has a horizon (whatever its cause).  The horizon appears (generally) as a sharply visible line at the end of a flat expanse of Earth.  The key here is that the Earth never stops appearing flat.  This is true whether due to the sphericity of the Earth or due to the bending of light.  The Earth does not suddenly appear spherical because light bends.  It still looks flat.  The theoretical existence of bendy light doesn't magically change that.

You are arguing that the bending of light would cause the Earth to appear to be spherical, but that simply isn't true.  The Earth still appears flat; bendy light just causes it to exhibit some of the same phenomena as it would be expected to exhibit if it was spherical.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2012, 04:24:15 PM »
Bendy light does not explain why objects disappear over the horizon. When things dissapear over the horizon they appear to do so from the bottom up (i.e. the top of the object is the last thing you're able to see) but if light bends upward it would cause an object to appear to disappear from the top down.

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2012, 05:28:12 PM »
You are arguing that the bending of light would cause the Earth to appear to be spherical, but that simply isn't true.  The Earth still appears flat; bendy light just causes it to exhibit some of the same phenomena as it would be expected to exhibit if it was spherical.

Exactly, it would appear the exact same way as a round earth (more or less).  That's what bendy light does.  It makes the flat earth look round.  If you were to go high enough up with bendy light, the curvature would become pronounced enough to be visible with your naked eyes, just as on a round earth.

You're admitting that you need the earth to appear to be curved to explain the horizon.

If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Megaman

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2012, 09:42:47 PM »
You are arguing that the bending of light would cause the Earth to appear to be spherical, but that simply isn't true.  The Earth still appears flat; bendy light just causes it to exhibit some of the same phenomena as it would be expected to exhibit if it was spherical.

Exactly, it would appear the exact same way as a round earth (more or less).  That's what bendy light does.  It makes the flat earth look round.  If you were to go high enough up with bendy light, the curvature would become pronounced enough to be visible with your naked eyes, just as on a round earth.

You're admitting that you need the earth to appear to be curved to explain the horizon.

Bendy light does not explain why objects disappear over the horizon. When things dissapear over the horizon they appear to do so from the bottom up (i.e. the top of the object is the last thing you're able to see) but if light bends upward it would cause an object to appear to disappear from the top down.

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2012, 09:47:36 PM »
Nope, things would still disappear bottom up.  If you diagram out the path light would take if it traveled in straight lines, you'll notice that the light from the bottom of an object has to be angled up further than light from the top of an object to reach our eyes.
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Megaman

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2012, 10:44:39 PM »
Nope, things would still disappear bottom up.  If you diagram out the path light would take if it traveled in straight lines, you'll notice that the light from the bottom of an object has to be angled up further than light from the top of an object to reach our eyes.

Ah. I see your point. That actually makes sense.

Now it's up to an FE supporter to devise and preform an experiment to prove that light does naturally curve upwards. Then it is necessary to find ways to measure the curvature and develop mathematical models based on those measurements.

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« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 12:09:58 AM by Megaman »

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burt

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #97 on: August 09, 2012, 02:57:23 PM »
This is clearly not irrelevant. the curvature explained by CET is concave; it would look like you are standing in a bowl if bendy light existed.

I think you misread or misinterpreted it.  The curvature should appear convex.  Bendy light makes the earth look the same way it would look on a round earth, allowing for a distinct horizon, sunsets and sunrises, objects disappearing over the horizon, all that jazz, and all the result of making it appear curved like on a round earth.

though you might have missed the logical implication. go back and look at your illustration you will see in that illustration the only explanation for seeing what you can is if the earth appears concave. if you are stood at the apex.


not like a hollow earth like a bowl.

Does this qualify for M-M-M-Monster Fail thread, if so please feel free to add.

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burt

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #98 on: August 09, 2012, 03:44:03 PM »
1.
But if light did bend the earth would look curved. Cet was not claiming it bends. if it looks flat wherever you have been it should indicate to you that bendy light is incorrect. that is CET's point, and you are subtly ignoring it by referencing it incoherently.


CET was claiming that if light bends, the Earth would appear to be curved. As such, it could not appear to be flat. However, the bending of light will not necessarily produce visible curvature of the Earth.

I think he has explained this in more detail as will be understood if you read his posts.

2.
Let me rephrase this so it is easier to understand:

"I would rather entertain a contradiction so that I do not have to accept the earth isn't flat"


Your 'rephrasal' is as stupid as it is petty. And where is the contradiction?

If it has more content, please explain. Thanks.

3.
Denial is not an argument.


Luckily, I have also presented an argument: in RET, the Earth appears to be locally flat. This is not disputed. Therefore, there is no more contradiction in saying that light bends, but the Earth appears to be locally flat, than there is in saying/ that the Earth is round, but appears to be locally flat.

This, you keep repeating, and yet it remains unconvincing.

4.
This is what needs to be explained.


Why does it need to be explained? Light bending in a manner that would produce visual phenomena identical to a spherical Earth, and so in RET the Earth appears to be flat despite not being so. Why does that not need to be explained?
Still the original thing I quoted needs to be explained. No amount of “well what about RE” I don’t care about RE, I care about you backing up your theory. I m not here to advocate specifically I am here to understand FE. It would be kind if you could do so with respect to the criticism levelled at FE, in CETs post. And again, Thanks.

5.
Let me try and understand you here, by putting this in logical form.

Premise: CET has argued that the earth can be spherical
Premise: he has also argued that the earth can still appear flat even if premise 1 is true.
therefore: the accusation that there is a contradiction with bendy light is fanciful.

yeah, ok...


You have misunderstood his argument completely.


As in, completely.
“his” argument? Is it not an argument you made?
I am not going to be held responsible for how people choose to communicate. I understand the general outline of the argument in the post, but this paragraph was nonsense.

6.
If you quote where I accused you of a fallacy, I will attempt to back it up. or retract it if I am wrong.

It is useless to conflate an argument pointing out a contradiction, with an argument that supports another theory. It is clearly a logical fallacy and shows a deep manichaenism.

This is called the fallacy of false alternatives. It states that just because you disprove a theory, it does not make the one you advocate correct.
And when flat earth is under discussion, instead of backing up your statement, you just mention what you think is wrong with RE. Even if the RE is wrong, it has no bearing on whether the flat earth is right.

7.
This
If the Earth can appear to be flat and still be a sphere,

Does not follow from this

I see no fallacy in claiming it appears to be flat and that light bends.


What do you mean it "does not follow"? The two statements have near-identical content. One does not "follow" from the other, one is the other.

they are isomorphic I agree, but "is" is taking it a little too far.


The fact is you ignore empirical evidence against FE(claiming it is part of a conspiracy or at least a lot of FE'ers do), so you can make equalizing statements like this. systems that are isomorphic need to be demarcated into what best explains the evidence. though evidence is disregarded here if it does not support FE, and so it is going to be almost impossible to change your mind because of the fallacy of iinvincible ignorance.

[Edit: Hated what I stated, so changed]

« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:31:17 PM by burt »

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Re: Bendy Light, Bendy Earth
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2012, 11:33:39 AM »
Hey, feel free to contribute something new to the thread and stop trolling.  ::)  The bottom line is that the Earth still looks flat, so your OP is meaningless in the debate.  It is, however, valuable for other reasons.  I've long thought that bendy light could account for the supposed appearance of curvature from great heights, and your insights seem to validate that opinion.  So, again, thank you for your valuable contribution to FET, and please stop pretending that this proves something about the shape of the Earth.

You've missed the point entirely. 

If the earth looks flat, why do you need bendy light?  It's because you're seeing things, like the horizon, that you wouldn't see on a flat plane.  It doesn't look flat.

You're either too stubborn or dull to realize that, though.

I never claimed this "proves" anything about the shape of the earth, merely that you look stupid.

I've done this argument several times at them. They do understand it of course, but pretend not to in order not to engage with it.
Anyway, bendy light was disproved a couple of years ago.
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