Canadian woman's conviction overturned for being too harsh

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2011/05/02/effert-alberta-couirt-of-appeal.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2011/09/09/edmonton-effert-infanticide-suspended-sentence.html

WTF?! Did I miss something?!

Sounds reasonable, if infanticide laws exist, they should be used when necessary. I can't pretend to know how terrible some women's mental state is after child birth, but I hear postpartum depression can be quite severe.

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

Although, honestly CR90, I don't know what point you're trying to make, you didn't really comment on the news articles at all. Do you think the jury made a mistake convicting her of second-degree murder in the first place?

The baby was an hour old from what I read, that's not enough time to develop postpartum psychosis from what I understand. Regardless of if that's true or not there is NO excuse to murder your defenseless child. And even then regardless of how I feel or how you feel, what matters is how the jury feels after evidence has been presented. Judge should not have overturned the decision.

The court of appeal based Monday's decision on the testimony of two clinical experts during the second trial, both who testified Effert's mind was disturbed at the time of the killing.

Isn't that enough?

She might have been suffering from delerium after giving birth, mothers have been known to commit neonaticide (killing a newborn under 24 hours) under delirium which can occur from the trauma of giving birth.

The baby was an hour old from what I read, that's not enough time to develop postpartum psychosis from what I understand. Regardless of if that's true or not there is NO excuse to murder your defenseless child. And even then regardless of how I feel or how you feel, what matters is how the jury feels after evidence has been presented. Judge should not have overturned the decision.

But plenty of time to develop prepartum psychosis.

The judge used his superior knowledge to make the decision. That is why judges are allowed that sort of leeway.

Yeah. Infanticide is simply a category of murder. They're not saying it's not a murder.

Kill a person 20+ years in prison, kill a new born, justify it with postpartum psychosis and get a slap on the wrist. Pathetic. Figures FES would justify it.

I seem to remember in our hundreds of abortion discussion that each and everyone of you saying that as soon as the child is born they ahve the rights of a human and if they're killed they should be punished as if they killed another adult human. So either one of two things are happening here: 1) You're flip-floppers. or 2) You're trolling. I'll put my money on option two.

If you have postpartum pyschosis or delirium then you are just not in control, you really can't be held accountable in the same way that a normal healthy person can. Be careful in case you ever father a child as even men can get postpartum depression and psychosis.

The point you're missing is that people who are not of proper mental health at the moment of the murder are never given the same punishment as those who are. Personally, I think the fact that she threw the damn corpse out the window says something about her mental health.

The point you're missing is that people who are not of proper mental health at the moment of the murder are never given the same punishment as those who are. Personally, I think the fact that she threw the damn corpse out the window says something about her mental health.

Exactly... but CR90 won't even grasp what you are trying to tell him, he's too hung up on the fact that the victim was a baby.

Kill a person 20+ years in prison, kill a new born, justify it with postpartum psychosis and get a slap on the wrist. Pathetic. Figures FES would justify it.

I seem to remember in our hundreds of abortion discussion that each and everyone of you saying that as soon as the child is born they ahve the rights of a human and if they're killed they should be punished as if they killed another adult human. So either one of two things are happening here: 1) You're flip-floppers. or 2) You're trolling. I'll put my money on option two.

Dude, are you intentionally ignoring the information regarding her mental health? How can you possibly justify a sound-minded person strangling their newborn child and throwing the corpse from the window?

No one is trolling. Trying to contradict people you disagree with by being completely retarded isn't a good idea.

Kill a person 20+ years in prison, kill a new born, justify it with postpartum psychosis and get a slap on the wrist. Pathetic. Figures FES would justify it.

I seem to remember in our hundreds of abortion discussion that each and everyone of you saying that as soon as the child is born they ahve the rights of a human and if they're killed they should be punished as if they killed another adult human. So either one of two things are happening here: 1) You're flip-floppers. or 2) You're trolling. I'll put my money on option two.

I agree, all murderers should instantly be thrown to the dogs regardless of mental health issues or not. Postpartum pyschosis isn't even a real disease.

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on September 16, 2011, 02:04:18 PM

Kill a person 20+ years in prison, kill a new born, justify it with postpartum psychosis and get a slap on the wrist. Pathetic. Figures FES would justify it.

I seem to remember in our hundreds of abortion discussion that each and everyone of you saying that as soon as the child is born they ahve the rights of a human and if they're killed they should be punished as if they killed another adult human. So either one of two things are happening here: 1) You're flip-floppers. or 2) You're trolling. I'll put my money on option two.

I agree, all murderers should instantly be thrown to the dogs regardless of mental health issues or not. Postpartum pyschosis isn't even a real disease.

Yeah, she'd probably just had a cold shower or something.

i agree she needs to be held responsible for her actions - i hope that now she is out of jail, she is going to be closely monitored for a long time and be declined the right to conceive another baby for a periond of time too.

be declined the right to conceive another baby for a periond of time too.

what

Quote from: Crazy Diamond on September 16, 2011, 04:35:14 PM

be declined the right to conceive another baby for a periond of time too.

what

Nope. She missed her chance at motherhood.

Quote from: Christianrocker90 on September 16, 2011, 02:04:18 PM

Kill a person 20+ years in prison, kill a new born, justify it with postpartum psychosis and get a slap on the wrist. Pathetic. Figures FES would justify it.

I seem to remember in our hundreds of abortion discussion that each and everyone of you saying that as soon as the child is born they ahve the rights of a human and if they're killed they should be punished as if they killed another adult human. So either one of two things are happening here: 1) You're flip-floppers. or 2) You're trolling. I'll put my money on option two.

I agree, all murderers should instantly be thrown to the dogs regardless of mental health issues or not. Postpartum pyschosis isn't even a real disease.

Srsly, we should throw the christian fundies mooching off their parents to the dogs as well.

Hmm, I dunno. I'm on the fence with this one...just wanted to toss that out there. (Too soon?)

Whatever, you people would justify genocide if it fit your world view. Oops. Too late, some of you justify the Holocaust. My bad.

You are a very angry and hateful person.

Lack of a personal understanding of mental illness often reflects in one's dismissal of it.

I'm not sure what I think to this, on one hand I think she should be punished for the killing of her child on the other, I appreciate that she was clearly not in her right mind when she did the deed. In this case, I don't think we're really in a position to comment on a clearly difficult and emotional case based on a news story.

Whatever, you people would justify genocide if it fit your world view. Oops. Too late, some of you justify the Holocaust. My bad.

Seriously, citation fucking needed for that hateful bit of slander. Either show some evidence of that or do what you keep promising and get off this website for good, we do not have to put up with vile comments like that.

Trying to contradict people you disagree with by being completely retarded isn't a good idea.

Ah, I see you've met CR90.

Too late, some of you justify the Holocaust.

Who?

Whatever, you people would justify genocide if it fit your world view. Oops. Too late, some of you justify the Holocaust. My bad.

I like how we present you with rational arguments, and you respond by calling us nazis.

ITT: CR90 has given birth to a child and knows how long postpartum psychosis takes to develop.

Don't question him guys, he's an expert.

So if we claim innocence based on estrogen related depression, where is the corresponding forgiveness based on testosterone's documented contribution to violence?  And a clinically depressed man would still have the book thrown at him for infanticide.  Apparently, the book is a maximum five years penalty in Canada.  Also I wasn't at this Canadian trial, but the jury was, so presumably they heard the psychiatric testimony. Was it shaky or unconvincing?  Did the judge just nullify the jury?  I don't think I can form an opinion based on this news article.

More than likely this case will go before the supreme court of Canada. The reason why we have higher courts is for difficult cases like these.

So if we claim innocence based on estrogen related depression, where is the corresponding forgiveness based on testosterone's documented contribution to violence?  And a clinically depressed man would still have the book thrown at him for infanticide.  Apparently, the book is a maximum five years penalty in Canada.  Also I wasn't at this Canadian trial, but the jury was, so presumably they heard the psychiatric testimony. Was it shaky or unconvincing?  Did the judge just nullify the jury?  I don't think I can form an opinion based on this news article.

Women have more rights than men.