How does GPS work if no satellites?

Quote from: truthterra on August 06, 2016, 03:05:28 AM

Are satellites an impossible technology ? not at all.
Let me take a guess, there are no satellites in space, and no one can't penetrate space because it's like the cuipher belt just a belt of teleportation gates that bring you back to your position or to other position.

Do you have the slightest idea of what you are talking about?

And, have you any idea of what the Kuiper Belt is?

Your offensive comments are doing great time in showing my point.

Ever thought of writing "Science Fantasy" stories. You ideas are far too way out to ever be called "Science Fiction".

Quote from: CartogTroll on July 21, 2016, 05:28:43 PM

OK let's suppose that those "pseudollites" are posted wherever it was convenient, or possible.

GPS receivers work even in the middle of the ocean.  Even in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific, far far out of sight of any land, even the smallest island or reef.  Where was the pseudollite?  (Actually, I think there'd have to be more that one pseudollite position required to get this effect.)   Is it possible that, somehow, the govts of the world pounded poles with signal generators on them in the middle of the ocean - poles long enough to reach to the sea bottom and still post a signal generator high enough over the water that it would be picked up by a ship at sea hundreds of miles away.  The enormous expense of posting so many huge poles, and the number of men and boats used in pounding these posts into the ocean floor .... and the fact that you've never heard a word about even one of those men or boats.  And the fact that no ship has ever bumped into one of the pseudollite poles.

You should ask  yourself, how much work and manpower and money is involved in maintaining this supposed hoax - contrasted to what money or advantage there is in maintaining the hoax, and the fact that nobody involved has ever spilled the beans?

JROA answer his questions if you can.

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 04, 2016, 09:15:45 PM

Quote from: CartogTroll on July 21, 2016, 05:28:43 PM

OK let's suppose that those "pseudollites" are posted wherever it was convenient, or possible.

GPS receivers work even in the middle of the ocean.  Even in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific, far far out of sight of any land, even the smallest island or reef.  Where was the pseudollite?  (Actually, I think there'd have to be more that one pseudollite position required to get this effect.)   Is it possible that, somehow, the govts of the world pounded poles with signal generators on them in the middle of the ocean - poles long enough to reach to the sea bottom and still post a signal generator high enough over the water that it would be picked up by a ship at sea hundreds of miles away.  The enormous expense of posting so many huge poles, and the number of men and boats used in pounding these posts into the ocean floor .... and the fact that you've never heard a word about even one of those men or boats.  And the fact that no ship has ever bumped into one of the pseudollite poles.

You should ask  yourself, how much work and manpower and money is involved in maintaining this supposed hoax - contrasted to what money or advantage there is in maintaining the hoax, and the fact that nobody involved has ever spilled the beans?

JROA answer his questions if you can.

There are buoys all across the oceans, even ones anchored to the deepest depths.  It is not unfathomable that they are used for more than one purpose.

Quote from: jroa on August 06, 2016, 06:14:43 AM

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 04, 2016, 09:15:45 PM

Quote from: CartogTroll on July 21, 2016, 05:28:43 PM

OK let's suppose that those "pseudollites" are posted wherever it was convenient, or possible.

GPS receivers work even in the middle of the ocean.  Even in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific, far far out of sight of any land, even the smallest island or reef.  Where was the pseudollite?  (Actually, I think there'd have to be more that one pseudollite position required to get this effect.)   Is it possible that, somehow, the govts of the world pounded poles with signal generators on them in the middle of the ocean - poles long enough to reach to the sea bottom and still post a signal generator high enough over the water that it would be picked up by a ship at sea hundreds of miles away.  The enormous expense of posting so many huge poles, and the number of men and boats used in pounding these posts into the ocean floor .... and the fact that you've never heard a word about even one of those men or boats.  And the fact that no ship has ever bumped into one of the pseudollite poles.

You should ask  yourself, how much work and manpower and money is involved in maintaining this supposed hoax - contrasted to what money or advantage there is in maintaining the hoax, and the fact that nobody involved has ever spilled the beans?

JROA answer his questions if you can.

There are buoys all across the oceans, even ones anchored to the deepest depths.  It is not unfathomable that they are used for more than one purpose.

But not the slightest bit of evidence they might be used for global navigation.  Don't say they could be, prove that they are.

My question is why fake GPS?  LORAN was being used prior and the main complaint from users was the coverage.  Nobody using it was demanding satellites be used.  The demand was for more coverage, mainly by the military since large areas of the world were not covered.

Why fake GPS when people already accepted a terrestrial based system? 

Then there is the added cost of faking launches and building functional satellites to crash into the ocean after launch.  So now they are not only maintaining the ground base system they are wasting money launching useless satellites.

The extensive ground based system, under the assumption GPS satellites are being faked, needs to be maintained in secrete instead of openly.  Adding to the complexity and number of people involved.

It makes much more sense to just say LORAN is more suitable for navigation than faking a system based on satellites.

Quote from: inquisitive on August 06, 2016, 06:30:22 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 06, 2016, 06:14:43 AM

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 04, 2016, 09:15:45 PM

Quote from: CartogTroll on July 21, 2016, 05:28:43 PM

OK let's suppose that those "pseudollites" are posted wherever it was convenient, or possible.

GPS receivers work even in the middle of the ocean.  Even in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific, far far out of sight of any land, even the smallest island or reef.  Where was the pseudollite?  (Actually, I think there'd have to be more that one pseudollite position required to get this effect.)   Is it possible that, somehow, the govts of the world pounded poles with signal generators on them in the middle of the ocean - poles long enough to reach to the sea bottom and still post a signal generator high enough over the water that it would be picked up by a ship at sea hundreds of miles away.  The enormous expense of posting so many huge poles, and the number of men and boats used in pounding these posts into the ocean floor .... and the fact that you've never heard a word about even one of those men or boats.  And the fact that no ship has ever bumped into one of the pseudollite poles.

You should ask  yourself, how much work and manpower and money is involved in maintaining this supposed hoax - contrasted to what money or advantage there is in maintaining the hoax, and the fact that nobody involved has ever spilled the beans?

JROA answer his questions if you can.

There are buoys all across the oceans, even ones anchored to the deepest depths.  It is not unfathomable that they are used for more than one purpose.

But not the slightest bit of evidence they might be used for global navigation.  Don't say they could be, prove that they are.

Do you think that I am privy to top secret information that I am free to just spread around the internet as I see fit?  Are you really this naive?

Quote from: Woody on August 06, 2016, 11:12:55 AM

My question is why fake GPS?  LORAN was being used prior and the main complaint from users was the coverage.  Nobody using it was demanding satellites be used.  The demand was for more coverage, mainly by the military since large areas of the world were not covered.

Why fake GPS when people already accepted a terrestrial based system? 

Then there is the added cost of faking launches and building functional satellites to crash into the ocean after launch.  So now they are not only maintaining the ground base system they are wasting money launching useless satellites.

The extensive ground based system, under the assumption GPS satellites are being faked, needs to be maintained in secrete instead of openly.  Adding to the complexity and number of people involved.

It makes much more sense to just say LORAN is more suitable for navigation than faking a system based on satellites.

Does LORAN provide an accurate timing source?

There are buoys all across the oceans, even ones anchored to the deepest depths.  It is not unfathomable that they are used for more than one purpose.

Quote from: jroa on August 06, 2016, 06:14:43 AM

There are buoys all across the oceans, even ones anchored to the deepest depths.  It is not unfathomable that they are used for more than one purpose.

I seriously laughed when I read this. You honestly believe a buoy is tall enough to grant any kind of range? What do you possibly think could be powering such powerful transmitters? Can you possibly be this stupid?

Quote from: jroa on August 06, 2016, 06:14:43 AM

There are buoys all across the oceans, even ones anchored to the deepest depths.  It is not unfathomable that they are used for more than one purpose.

I seriously laughed when I read this. You honestly believe a buoy is tall enough to grant any kind of range? What do you possibly think could be powering such powerful transmitters? Can you possibly be this stupid?

Not to mention the problem of getting power to such a massive network. This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I love this website haha

You people do know that radio waves can skip off of water, right?  Have you ever skipped a stone all the way across a pond?  Now, think about that stone traveling at the speed of light.  Do you think it would go pretty far?

I am sorry, but do you not believe in solar panels, or do you think there is no sun light out in the ocean?

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 07, 2016, 01:21:35 AM

Not to mention the problem of getting power to such a massive network. This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I love this website haha

I am sorry, but do you not believe in solar panels, or do you think there is no sun light out in the ocean?

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 07, 2016, 01:21:35 AM

Not to mention the problem of getting power to such a massive network. This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I love this website haha

I am sorry, but do you not believe in solar panels, or do you think there is no sun light out in the ocean?

Quote from: jroa on August 07, 2016, 05:17:27 AM

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 07, 2016, 01:21:35 AM

Not to mention the problem of getting power to such a massive network. This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I love this website haha

I am sorry, but do you not believe in solar panels, or do you think there is no sun light out in the ocean?

Show me an ocean buoy with a solar panel on it

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 07, 2016, 12:25:08 PM

Quote from: jroa on August 07, 2016, 05:17:27 AM

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 07, 2016, 01:21:35 AM

Not to mention the problem of getting power to such a massive network. This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I love this website haha

I am sorry, but do you not believe in solar panels, or do you think there is no sun light out in the ocean?

Show me an ocean buoy with a solar panel on it

If you believe those solar panels are large enough to emit powerful enough frequencies to make GPS work, then you are sadly mistaken.

Even if the panels were big enough, the buoy itself is not tall enough to provide sufficient range.

Your picture means nothing. That solar panel is for a light.

This is a map of earth.

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 07, 2016, 06:31:43 PM

If you believe those solar panels are large enough to emit powerful enough frequencies to make GPS work, then you are sadly mistaken.

Even if the panels were big enough, the buoy itself is not tall enough to provide sufficient range.

Your picture means nothing. That solar panel is for a light.

Powerful enough frequencies? Output power has nothing to do with frequencies.
Those panels are to power a radio, but, that's not the point.

You said, "Show me an ocean buoy with a solar panel on it".

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 06, 2016, 11:19:17 PM

Quote from: jroa on August 06, 2016, 06:14:43 AM

There are buoys all across the oceans, even ones anchored to the deepest depths.  It is not unfathomable that they are used for more than one purpose.

I seriously laughed when I read this. You honestly believe a buoy is tall enough to grant any kind of range? What do you possibly think could be powering such powerful transmitters? Can you possibly be this stupid?

You people do know that radio waves can skip off of water, right?  Have you ever skipped a stone all the way across a pond?  Now, think about that stone traveling at the speed of light.  Do you think it would go pretty far?

So radio waves propagate like stones skipping across a pond! Wish I knew when I sat for those exams on EM propagation. 

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

Quote from: Bullwinkle on August 07, 2016, 08:25:26 PM

Quote from: TheRealBillNye on August 07, 2016, 06:31:43 PM

If you believe those solar panels are large enough to emit powerful enough frequencies to make GPS work, then you are sadly mistaken.

Even if the panels were big enough, the buoy itself is not tall enough to provide sufficient range.

Your picture means nothing. That solar panel is for a light.

Powerful enough frequencies? Output power has nothing to do with frequencies.
Those panels are to power a radio, but, that's not the point.

You said, "Show me an ocean buoy with a solar panel on it".

That doesn't matter. There are still few problems like how those buoyas remain perfectly still and how there are no reports about the worldwide grid of them.

Quote from: Thork on September 09, 2011, 10:28:26 AM

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

LORAN ?? Really ? That got discontinued in the 80ies.  It had a range of up to 1500 miles and an accuracy to about 10 miles.
Just be honest. You just pulled that one out because it was the first google result didnt you ?

So a system that have a 10 mile accuracy and 1500 miles in total range that havent been operating since 1980 is the answer ?
You might want to reconsider that. The antennas for 40 meter band alone would be around a small fishing pole. Thats not going to fit inside a phone.

Quote from: Stoiss on August 08, 2016, 02:33:55 AM

Quote from: Thork on September 09, 2011, 10:28:26 AM

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

LORAN ?? Really ? That got discontinued in the 80ies.  It had a range of up to 1500 miles and an accuracy to about 10 miles.
Just be honest. You just pulled that one out because it was the first google result didnt you ?

So a system that have a 10 mile accuracy and 1500 miles in total range that havent been operating since 1980 is the answer ?
You might want to reconsider that. The antennas for 40 meter band alone would be around a small fishing pole. Thats not going to fit inside a phone.

You don't think it is possible that LORAN got upgraded and now we call it GPS?

Quote from: jroa on August 10, 2016, 05:36:11 AM

Quote from: Stoiss on August 08, 2016, 02:33:55 AM

Quote from: Thork on September 09, 2011, 10:28:26 AM

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

LORAN ?? Really ? That got discontinued in the 80ies.  It had a range of up to 1500 miles and an accuracy to about 10 miles.
Just be honest. You just pulled that one out because it was the first google result didnt you ?

So a system that have a 10 mile accuracy and 1500 miles in total range that havent been operating since 1980 is the answer ?
You might want to reconsider that. The antennas for 40 meter band alone would be around a small fishing pole. Thats not going to fit inside a phone.

You don't think it is possible that LORAN got upgraded and now we call it GPS?

No.  Where is the technical specification for the upgrade?

Quote from: inquisitive on August 10, 2016, 10:37:01 AM

Quote from: jroa on August 10, 2016, 05:36:11 AM

Quote from: Stoiss on August 08, 2016, 02:33:55 AM

Quote from: Thork on September 09, 2011, 10:28:26 AM

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

LORAN ?? Really ? That got discontinued in the 80ies.  It had a range of up to 1500 miles and an accuracy to about 10 miles.
Just be honest. You just pulled that one out because it was the first google result didnt you ?

So a system that have a 10 mile accuracy and 1500 miles in total range that havent been operating since 1980 is the answer ?
You might want to reconsider that. The antennas for 40 meter band alone would be around a small fishing pole. Thats not going to fit inside a phone.

You don't think it is possible that LORAN got upgraded and now we call it GPS?

No.  Where is the technical specification for the upgrade?

Why would you assume I am privy to top secret information?

It is impossible to fake GPS.   Not a single radio amateur has come forwards to say the cheap mass produced receivers are not receiving a signal which is only useful if you use the transmitters 3 D position in space and use the speed of light to calculate your position.  People who say the GPS system is fake are only demonstrating their ignorance and gullibility.