How does GPS work if no satellites?

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 08:36:19 AM

And you can't compensate for the bending because we can't directly observe their location.

The actual paths do not matter.  What matters is the time it takes to traverse these paths.

At no point does a radio receiver ask "Where did this signal come from".  At best it can determine how long it took to get to it.

Actually, the receiver works out the location of the satellite by using the almanac data that describes the orbital parameters of each satellite.  This almanac data is embedded in the signals transmitted by each GPS satellite.

Also, if the receiver doesn't know where the signal source is located, then the timing is pretty much useless, don't you think?

No, its not useless at all. 

If it  gives the correct times it doesn't matter where it is, so long as where we think it is fits (which it does).

I feel like I"m just repeating myself over and over again.

Quote from: markjo on September 27, 2011, 10:24:17 AM

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 08:36:19 AM

And you can't compensate for the bending because we can't directly observe their location.

The actual paths do not matter.  What matters is the time it takes to traverse these paths.

At no point does a radio receiver ask "Where did this signal come from".  At best it can determine how long it took to get to it.

Actually, the receiver works out the location of the satellite by using the almanac data that describes the orbital parameters of each satellite.  This almanac data is embedded in the signals transmitted by each GPS satellite.

Also, if the receiver doesn't know where the signal source is located, then the timing is pretty much useless, don't you think?

No, its not useless at all. 

If it  gives the correct times it doesn't matter where it is, so long as where we think it is fits (which it does).

I feel like I"m just repeating myself over and over again.

What good is knowing the time if you don't have a known reference point?

You do have a reference point.  Where the satellite appears to be.

You do have a reference point.  Where the satellite appears to be.

But where it appears to be is exactly where it should be on an RE. FE requires bendy light and aetheric currents that cannot be tested.

The physics of the earth make it appear as though the earth is round, even though it is not. You can launch a satellite into orbit using RE trajectory calculations, and it will be swept up into a current that exactly corresponds to that orbit. And when the satellite takes a picture of the earth, the earth will look round, though it is actually flat. And you can use RE triangulations to determine one's location on the flat earth.

This would require physics to perfectly mimic a round earth, not NASA.

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 01:30:35 PM

You do have a reference point.  Where the satellite appears to be.

But where it appears to be is exactly where it should be on an RE. FE requires bendy light and aetheric currents that cannot be tested.

The physics of the earth make it appear as though the earth is round, even though it is not. You can launch a satellite into orbit using RE trajectory calculations, and it will be swept up into a current that exactly corresponds to that orbit. And when the satellite takes a picture of the earth, the earth will look round, though it is actually flat. And you can use RE triangulations to determine one's location on the flat earth.

This would require physics to perfectly mimic a round earth, not NASA.

No, you've got it wrong.  The physics of earth is a flat earth.

This round earth malarkey is the result of building a model around what shape you want the world to be and the inherent flaws in the scientific method.

Quote from: momentia on September 27, 2011, 01:53:11 PM

Quote from: John Davis on September 27, 2011, 01:30:35 PM

You do have a reference point.  Where the satellite appears to be.

But where it appears to be is exactly where it should be on an RE. FE requires bendy light and aetheric currents that cannot be tested.

The physics of the earth make it appear as though the earth is round, even though it is not. You can launch a satellite into orbit using RE trajectory calculations, and it will be swept up into a current that exactly corresponds to that orbit. And when the satellite takes a picture of the earth, the earth will look round, though it is actually flat. And you can use RE triangulations to determine one's location on the flat earth.

This would require physics to perfectly mimic a round earth, not NASA.

No, you've got it wrong.  The physics of earth is a flat earth.

This round earth malarkey is the result of building a model around what shape you want the world to be and the inherent flaws in the scientific method.

One of the reasons I am confused is that I have looked for, but have never seen a theory for AE or EA other than "AE moves satellites in orbits" and "EA bends light". I would like as quantitative a model of both of these phenomena as you can manage.

Because GPS satellites are theoretically based, launched, and put in orbit using the simple RE model of gravitation and assuming that light goes in a straight line. From what I am reading of your posts, somehow RE is a good enough model to launch these satellites, but it is physically incorrect.

Having a AE and an EA model would help the discussion. (They would have to have predictions that match the predictions of the RE model, because those predictions worked.)

You do have a reference point.  Where the satellite appears to be.

How do you determine where the satellite appears to be?

In this case, they use the round earth model which is close enough apparently for the application at hand.

Sputnik made the Gagarin story more plausible. And yes. The space race was really a photoshop/film studio type technology race. To control the media, is to control the world. Its worth winning.

The FAQs say that temporary space travel is possible, thus it is possible that an object named Sputnik did indeed make space flight and then disappeared sometime later.

Q: "What about satellites? How do they orbit the Earth?"

A: Since sustained spaceflight is not possible, satellites cannot orbit the Earth. The signals we supposedly receive from them are either broadcast from towers or any number of possible pseudolites. However, temporary space-flight is possible.

Orbit is indeed possible with a Flat Earth. The sun and moon are explained as spotlights which travel in a circular fashion above the Earth. This theory was shown by Voliva's map. I don't like using silly words like pseudolites. I call things as they are normally called and they are called satellites.

If we use the Universal Acceleration Theory and the FAQs answer to how airplanes work it is indeed possible to propel objects into a circular type orbit that the sun, moon, and planets have above the Flat Earth or even at a stationary position like a "geosynchronous" satellite. If you place a satellite say 10 miles above the Earth at say 80w Lat and the satellite maintains an upward acceleration of 9.8m/s2, which is the same as the Earth then you are going to have a stationary satellite sitting there all the time.

How do GPS works without satellites? Well I don't believe in this radio wave theory of transmitters on towers, because the frequencies used by satellites are the same ones used as your mircowave oven. To use those in an omni directional pattern from an Earth based tower would literally cook you and anything that got too close to the tower. Earth based transmissions on those frequencies are point to point telephone relays or studio to transmitter links. There are Global Positioning Satellites above the Earth using a circular orbit above the Flat Earth, much like the sun an moon. At what height they are I don't know, but they are obviously in such an orbit.

Then your GPS receiver is not as good quality as your car radio.

Before you answer KNOW what you are talking about. And frankly by that remark it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about!

GPS uses mircrowave frequencies. Standard broadcasts use UHF and VHF frequencies. The wavelengths of the transmissions are very different and behave differently. VHF and UHF frequencies have a wavelength that can pass through some objects. Mircowaves have a wavelength that is very short and are absorbed by objects instead of passing through them. Thus mircowaves can't pass through say a bridge or dense clouds, or leaves.

This is a map of earth.


Around the edge (south) you will notice an ice wall. This is a place where few people can go. The psuedollites are arranged around the ice in a circle around earth allowing triangulation. This is why your dish must point the shortest distance towards South for TV etc.

Um, excuse me, but another thing you obviously do not know about and proceed to make things up. Seeing that people south of 0 degrees latitude typically point their dishes NORTH!!! Satellites can be placed anywhere. Television, and communication satellites are placed at 0 degrees latitude. Thus there are a ring of satellites at 0 lat above the Flat Earth. Depending on where the satellite has been placed and your location determines where the dish points. Every dish in the US looking at the same satellite are not going to be looking in the same direction relative to the satellite. At my location 82w long is exactly south, a satellite placed at 119w isn't going to be directly south is it? When I tune in a satellite at 22w long my dish is almost pointing EAST.

Why does the signal go out if you move you dish an inch? Satellites don't transmit an omni directional pattern. It is a very tight pattern at a focused area. The reception pattern of your dish is very narrow so that interference does not occur from unwanted signals from adjacent satellites. This is true of any antenna. All antennas even OTA ones have receive patterns. If the signal is located outside of the receive pattern of the antenna you won't receive it. Some antennas have a wider pattern than others. My OTA antenna has a narrow pattern, If I move it an ince or two some of my OTA stations go out and I begin to receive others. That is why in the old days we would put our OTA antennas on rotators.

Some diagrams. Sometimes visual aides help 


BTW those are the orbits as they are on the solstice and equinox. The orbits slowly move from a maximum north in June to a maximum south in December.



If I was able to draw I would make more diagrams, such as from a side view, etc... I might try some crude ones later.

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

I've seen satellites in the sky, they look like stars, but they move. they move to fast to be planes(and the make no noise so they can't be planes) also planes usually have multiple colors, satellites are just a white light. you can track satellites with websites like this http://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=25544&lat=44.7402&lng=-85.6019&loc=875&alt=191&tz=EST you just have to enter a zip code and you'll get the specific times a satellite should be passing over head.

Some diagrams. Sometimes visual aides help 


BTW those are the orbits as they are on the solstice and equinox. The orbits slowly move from a maximum north in June to a maximum south in December.



If I was able to draw I would make more diagrams, such as from a side view, etc... I might try some crude ones later.

If this is the correct FE map then what is the distance from the Falkland Islands to Australia?

Quote from: Thork on September 09, 2011, 10:28:26 AM

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

I've seen satellites in the sky, they look like stars, but they move. they move to fast to be planes(and the make no noise so they can't be planes) also planes usually have multiple colors, satellites are just a white light. you can track satellites with websites like this http://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=25544&lat=44.7402&lng=-85.6019&loc=875&alt=191&tz=EST you just have to enter a zip code and you'll get the specific times a satellite should be passing over head.

High flying jets make no noise when seen from the Earth.  They are simply too far away for the noise to be heard.  And, are you really trying to say that the color of the light proves what it is?  That is one of the most childish statements that I have heard an RE'er proclaim. 

I'll ask again - If this is the correct FE map then what is the distance from the Falkland Islands to Australia?

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

Pseudolites ? I thought it was stratelites ? There is no end to the FE imagination for creating imaginary words.

Quote from: Romrot on December 18, 2013, 11:24:56 PM

Quote from: Thork on September 09, 2011, 10:28:26 AM

How did Loran work with no satellites?

Pseudollites are stationed around the disk, and your position is triangulated from these beacons.

I picked satellites. Please do not expect answers to multiple questions in a thread. It makes them jump all over the place as people answer different parts..

I've seen satellites in the sky, they look like stars, but they move. they move to fast to be planes(and the make no noise so they can't be planes) also planes usually have multiple colors, satellites are just a white light. you can track satellites with websites like this http://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=25544&lat=44.7402&lng=-85.6019&loc=875&alt=191&tz=EST you just have to enter a zip code and you'll get the specific times a satellite should be passing over head.

High flying jets make no noise when seen from the Earth.  They are simply too far away for the noise to be heard.  And, are you really trying to say that the color of the light proves what it is?  That is one of the most childish statements that I have heard an RE'er proclaim.

ok smartass then you explain why http://www.heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=25544&lat=44.7402&lng=-85.6019&loc=875&alt=191&tz=EST is accurate in telling you when satellites fly over head. I've used it before. go ahead I'm listening.

Pseudolites ? I thought it was stratelites ? There is no end to the FE imagination for creating imaginary words.

Pseudolite is a real word.  Basically, it's a pseudo-satellite.  Stratellite is the trademarked name of a pseudolite that is in the form of a stratospheric airship.

Quote from: Googleotomy on December 21, 2013, 09:37:54 AM

Pseudolites ? I thought it was stratelites ? There is no end to the FE imagination for creating imaginary words.

Pseudolite is a real word.  Basically, it's a pseudo-satellite.  Stratellite is the trademarked name of a pseudolite that is in the form of a stratospheric airship.

An explanation of how GPS works please, with details of actual locations of the transmitters.

HA that wont ever happen..

My God these people are thick, their knowledge on GPS is non existent, well their knowledge on anything in the real world is non existent..

I'll point out one of the countless errors in their silly theory on GPS.. Ground based Pseudolites 'could' give an approximate location in a similar vein to Cell Tower triangulation.. however you would only get a 2D position, no altitude.. for that you need a third measuring point which must be high.

Also the reason why you lose GPS signal under solid objects is that the signals form the satellites are VERY weak... Imaging the power source they'd need to provide a strong signal 24/7.  They can be weal though because they are penetrating atmosphere vertically.. which is in order of magnitude MUCH easier than horizontally.

This is of course what happens in the real world.. in FE land where the sky is purple and the people more than a little stupid, god only knows.

Its a good laugh but one wonders how such people exist.

HA that wont ever happen..

My God these people are thick, their knowledge on GPS is non existent, well their knowledge on anything in the real world is non existent..

I'll point out one of the countless errors in their silly theory on GPS.. Ground based Pseudolites 'could' give an approximate location in a similar vein to Cell Tower triangulation.. however you would only get a 2D position, no altitude.. for that you need a third measuring point which must be high.

Also the reason why you lose GPS signal under solid objects is that the signals form the satellites are VERY weak... Imaging the power source they'd need to provide a strong signal 24/7.  They can be weal though because they are penetrating atmosphere vertically.. which is in order of magnitude MUCH easier than horizontally.

This is of course what happens in the real world.. in FE land where the sky is purple and the people more than a little stupid, god only knows.

Its a good laugh but one wonders how such people exist.

And yet here you are trying to give out your wisdom to those very people you claim are thick/stupid, all for the reward of a few internet back pats.
Of course, you're just another one who will claim that it's hilarious to actually watch people who believe the Earth is not what you have been brainwashed into believing and will cite that you've never had so much fun, all whilst expending all your efforts into trying your utmost best to explain in detail what you believe you know - aided by wiki.
If you want to laugh, then laugh. Scream in fits of laughter if you want. Just do it behind your little desk or in your slippers on the couch, because trying it on here will (I guarantee you) render you a complete, quivering wreck who will eventually complain that people are not being nice to you and it's not fair, etc, etc,etc.
Stop pretending you know what satellites are. You can't even put up a picture of one, except for a cartoon. There's supposedly thousands up there, isn't there? Are you telling me that they can't photograph any of them in real time or video them?

There's a reason they're all cartoon pictures. Can you guess why?

So please explain how live news pictures come back fron Iraq etc.

So please explain how live news pictures come back fron Iraq etc.

Pseudolites.  Please keep up and stop trying to derail threads. 

Quote from: inquisitive on February 15, 2014, 07:49:49 AM

So please explain how live news pictures come back fron Iraq etc.

Pseudolites.  Please keep up and stop trying to derail threads.

Please explain exactly what they are and where they are located.  Broadcast and communications satellites are stationary over the equator, GPS ones, about 20 from various countries, orbit the earth.

Quote from: jroa on February 15, 2014, 07:58:04 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on February 15, 2014, 07:49:49 AM

So please explain how live news pictures come back fron Iraq etc.

Pseudolites.  Please keep up and stop trying to derail threads.

Please explain exactly what they are and where they are located.  Broadcast and communications satellites are stationary over the equator, GPS ones, about 20 from various countries, orbit the earth.

Are you really so lazy that you will not even google a word that you do not know?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudolite

So where are some locations, remembering GPS works over the whole world including aircraft in flight over oceans.

You expect me to just know the location of every transmitter in existence?  Your demands get more and more ridiculous all the time. 

Over the ocean, they likely use buoys and/or air ships. 

You expect me to just know the location of every transmitter in existence?

Evidence of one would be good.

Over the ocean, they likely use buoys and/or air ships.

Is this a Zetetic position?  Why do you say "likely", without and data to arrive at this probability assessment?

You expect me to just know the location of every transmitter in existence?  Your demands get more and more ridiculous all the time. 

Over the ocean, they likely use buoys and/or air ships.

Surely any GPS transmitter, satellite or psuedolite, relies on a stable platform in a known position.  Even though satellites are in orbit they travel a precisely predictable route.   If the distance between you and the sea-pseudolite is constantly changing due to unpredictable sea swells how is the position measured accurately?

Quote from: jroa on February 15, 2014, 08:29:03 AM

You expect me to just know the location of every transmitter in existence?

Evidence of one would be good.

Are you saying that Pseudolites do not, in fact, exist?  If you answer that they do exist, then why should I need to give the location of one?

Quote from: jroa on February 15, 2014, 08:29:03 AM

Over the ocean, they likely use buoys and/or air ships.

Is this a Zetetic position?  Why do you say "likely", without and data to arrive at this probability assessment?

It is called logic and simple deduction.  I say likely because the conclusion has been deduced using logic, not through direct evidence.  I will not try to pass something off as absolute truth when I know that there is a chance of it being false; therefore words like "likely" or "possibly" are use in some of my statements.