I would rather walk 50 miles......

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2011, 12:21:17 PM »
Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!

This is what Americans really believe.

And just like that, the discussion turned to shit.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2011, 03:53:39 PM »
.....than take public transportation.


You can be shot anywhere, including your home.  ???
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rooster

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2011, 07:01:58 PM »
Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!

This is what Americans really believe.

False.

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Crustinator

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2011, 03:05:16 PM »
Here it doesn't even have to be in defense of life.  Or your own property.

Incorrect. But it warms my heart to think that you would believe such. Feel free to test this law any time you like. The results will be most rewarding.

Only because the evidence shows us as much.

Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2011, 02:54:55 PM »
Here it doesn't even have to be in defense of life.  Or your own property.

Incorrect. But it warms my heart to think that you would believe such. Feel free to test this law any time you like. The results will be most rewarding.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

Quote
The Joe Horn shooting controversy refers to the events of November 14, 2007, in Pasadena, Texas, United States when local resident Joe Horn shot and killed two men burgling his neighbor's home

Quote
On June 30, 2008 a Harris County grand jury cleared Mr. Horn by issuing a no-bill after two weeks of testimony.


Only because the evidence shows us as much.

Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.

 ::)

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2011, 05:53:41 PM »
Only because the evidence shows us as much.

Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.

Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling.  I was a bit facetious with the link I provided.  The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime.  How could it, its concealed.  I choose not to be a victim.

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Areweonfiya

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2011, 04:50:33 PM »
Only because the evidence shows us as much.

Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.

Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling.  I was a bit facetious with the link I provided.  The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime.  How could it, its concealed.  I choose not to be a victim.

How are you choosing not to be a victim? This isn't the wild west. If somone wants to shoot you they'll shoot you before you know it.

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Crustinator

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2011, 04:55:10 PM »
Are you intentionally being obtuse? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.

Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.

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rooster

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2011, 05:10:45 PM »
Are you intentionally being obtuse? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.

Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.

WHOA. Are you implying that I have anything in common with Wardogg? If so then I am greatly offended. If you are implying that I am violent, carry on.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2011, 05:58:14 PM »
If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.

Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.

Care to point out where I am in error?  In Texarse can I not use deadly force in defense of third party property?  If it can be reasonably assumed that retrieval of said property will be impossible?  IE your neighbor is getting is shit robbed by fucking punks.

You might want to think about a career change.  It may not be too late.

Are you intentionally being obtuse? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.

Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.

WHOA. Are you implying that I have anything in common with Wardogg? If so then I am greatly offended. If you are implying that I am violent, carry on.


 ::)  Just like a woman.  Get over yourself and lrn2JohnWayne.


« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 05:59:48 PM by WardoggKC130FE »

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rooster

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2011, 06:06:22 PM »

 ::)  Just like a woman.  Get over yourself and lrn2JohnWayne.

WHOA. Reuben Cogburn is where my name comes from. True Grit has nothing to do with Texas. lrnurwestrns

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2011, 06:17:16 PM »
Are you intentionally being obtuse? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

If you're going to be a shit hot lawyer like me you should read the cases you quote.

Even in Texarse you don't have a right to shoot whoever you like. Sorry to ruin your day Rooster.

WHOA. Are you implying that I have anything in common with Wardogg? If so then I am greatly offended. If you are implying that I am violent, carry on.

No, no, I think he's referring to Rooster Cogburn.  Am I right, Crusty?





As played by The Duke and The Dude, respectively.

EDIT: Damn it, Wardogg beat me to it.

Also, Crusty is correct.  Horn's defense wasn't just that he was protecting his neighbor's property, but that supposedly one of the criminals charged at him when he confronted them.  What set his case apart from others was that there is no "duty to retreat" law in Texas, therefore the fact that he initiated the personal conflict with the thieves was irrelevant.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 06:19:11 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2011, 06:18:18 PM »

 ::)  Just like a woman.  Get over yourself and lrn2JohnWayne.

WHOA. Reuben Cogburn is where my name comes from. True Grit has nothing to do with Texas. lrnurwestrns

Don't tell me, I know that.  He is the one that made the implication.


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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2011, 06:25:03 PM »
Also, Crusty is correct.  Horn's defense wasn't just that he was protecting his neighbor's property, but that supposedly one of the criminals charged at him when he confronted them.  What set his case apart from others was that there is no "duty to retreat" law in Texas, therefore the fact that he initiated the personal conflict with the thieves was irrelevant.

Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm

Sec. 9.43.  PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY.  A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1)  the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property;  or
(2)  the actor reasonably believes that:
(A)  the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B)  he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property;  or
(C)  the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2011, 06:40:19 PM »
Only because the evidence shows us as much.

Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.

Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling.  I was a bit facetious with the link I provided.  The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime.  How could it, its concealed.  I choose not to be a victim.

How are you choosing not to be a victim? This isn't the wild west. If somone wants to shoot you they'll shoot you before you know it.

Depends on the state.  How about the wild south?  This dude was drunk and the only account of the story is, wait for it, his.  Because the two dead dudes in his boat aren't talking.  Niether of them were armed either.  Hmmm...a move may be in order.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/double-murder-charges-dismissed-under-fl-stand-your-ground-self-defense-law/

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Lorddave

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2011, 06:42:09 PM »
Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9 Section 21 Paragraph C
Quote
(c)  The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war.  If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.

Since I can find no evidence that either men had a weapon, then I do not think it can be reasonably agreed that deadly force was required.  Having them run away when you tell them not to is not justifiable use of deadly force.
Gone.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #76 on: September 12, 2011, 06:53:09 PM »
Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9 Section 21 Paragraph C
Quote
(c)  The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war.  If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.

Since I can find no evidence that either men had a weapon, then I do not think it can be reasonably agreed that deadly force was required.  Having them run away when you tell them not to is not justifiable use of deadly force.

And yet Joe Horn is a free man.  Whether or not you think it was justifiable, it is by the letter of the law.

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Areweonfiya

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #77 on: September 12, 2011, 09:56:28 PM »
Only because the evidence shows us as much.

Incorrect. Post hoc non ergo propter hoc.

Clearly being black with intent is still a crime in some states.

Actually I was a little harsh with my eye rolling.  I was a bit facetious with the link I provided.  The reality of it is, I carry a weapon because it doesn't deter crime.  How could it, its concealed.  I choose not to be a victim.

How are you choosing not to be a victim? This isn't the wild west. If somone wants to shoot you they'll shoot you before you know it.

Depends on the state.  How about the wild south?  This dude was drunk and the only account of the story is, wait for it, his.  Because the two dead dudes in his boat aren't talking.  Niether of them were armed either.  Hmmm...a move may be in order.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/double-murder-charges-dismissed-under-fl-stand-your-ground-self-defense-law/

Your hanging on straws man. All these scenarios are so situational they don't prove how carrying a gun would save your life.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2011, 04:12:42 AM »
I have to use examples from somewhere considering Ive never had to pull mine to defend myself.

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Lorddave

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2011, 05:12:46 AM »
And statistically you probably never will.

Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.
Gone.

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Areweonfiya

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2011, 04:29:02 PM »
And statistically you probably never will.

Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.

Liberal propoganda at it's finest.

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Crustinator

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2011, 05:10:35 PM »
I think he's referring to Rooster Cogburn.  Am I right, Crusty?

Correct.

Texas Penal Code Title 2 Chapter 9.

That wasn't Joe Horn's defence.

Good job too as it doesn't provide for shooting people in the back after they've just robbed your neighbour.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2011, 06:05:57 PM »
Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!

This is what Americans really believe.

Only because the evidence shows us as much.

Are you suggesting beliefs follow from evidence?  :o
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Lorddave

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2011, 06:49:34 PM »
And statistically you probably never will.

Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.

Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
How so? There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.

I shall provide better evidence in about 18-20 hours.
Gone.

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Areweonfiya

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #84 on: September 13, 2011, 07:01:09 PM »
And statistically you probably never will.

Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.

Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
How so? There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.

I shall provide better evidence in about 18-20 hours.

(I was kidding)

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2011, 05:24:01 AM »
There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.

That's why people carry concealed.  If you want to show evidence of something of a counter point, show where carrying causes more harm than it does good.

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Conker

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2011, 09:45:40 AM »
The great Northamerican problem is that almost anybody can have a gun. Here, in Spain, I need to pass a extemelly hard psicotechnical test to prove im able to handle a gun, a freaking psicological examination to prove i´m not crazy and finally an specifical test and dactillar prits recollection for forensic database. And that is for HAVING, not carrying on the street, not even using it for defence, HAVING a gun in my house. Also, some kinds of guns requiere me to store them in a safe on my house, from where only a permited guy can take it. And any weapon up from semiautomatic (inclusive) is ILLEGAL for civil use.
This is not a joke society.
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You shouldn't be allowed to talk on a free discussion forum.

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Lorddave

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2011, 10:04:10 AM »
There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.

That's why people carry concealed.  If you want to show evidence of something of a counter point, show where carrying causes more harm than it does good.
Why would I want to show something false?
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2011, 10:31:28 AM »
And statistically you probably never will.

Based on violent crime rates over the past 20 years and changes in gun law, I can say with reasonable certainty that concealed weapon permits do not alter violent crime rates. They cause very little if any change.

Liberal propoganda at it's finest.
How so? There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.

I shall provide better evidence in about 18-20 hours.

The problem is those findings go both ways, if there is no corelation between gun laws and violent crimes, then what exactly is the reason for strict gun laws if they do not curb violent crime?

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: I would rather walk 50 miles......
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2011, 03:05:55 PM »
The great Northamerican problem is that almost anybody can have a gun. Here, in Spain, I need to pass a extemelly hard psicotechnical test to prove im able to handle a gun, a freaking psicological examination to prove i´m not crazy and finally an specifical test and dactillar prits recollection for forensic database. And that is for HAVING, not carrying on the street, not even using it for defence, HAVING a gun in my house. Also, some kinds of guns requiere me to store them in a safe on my house, from where only a permited guy can take it. And any weapon up from semiautomatic (inclusive) is ILLEGAL for civil use.

America, FUCK YEAH!

There doesn't seem to be any strong correlation between violent crimes and concealed weapon laws.

That's why people carry concealed.  If you want to show evidence of something of a counter point, show where carrying causes more harm than it does good.
Why would I want to show something false?

See, Liberals and Republicans can get along   ;)