I would rather walk 50 miles......

If you shoot well at the range doesn't necessarily mean you will shoot well in such a situation. I'd imagine you'd be quite nervous.

Pistol vs. Assualt rifle?  Outnumbered, and literally trapped in a bus.  Not a good situation, though I'd rather have a gun with me than be in the same situation and have nothing.

I'd rather carry chemical weaponry. For instance, a KNO₃ (Potassium Nitrate) and C₁₂H₂₂O₁₁ (sugar) smoke grenade is easy to make and legal without a license. You don't have to aim, and if you add, say, pepper spray to the mixture you have the perfect weapon for defense.

Pistol vs. Assualt rifle?  Outnumbered, and literally trapped in a bus.  Not a good situation, though I'd rather have a gun with me than be in the same situation and have nothing.

In a crowded bus, a pistol is far more useful than an assault rifle. A bus has bars and things which tend to get in the way of a big feck off bandouk. It's why the Israelis invented the Uzi.

If you shoot well at the range doesn't necessarily mean you will shoot well in such a situation. I'd imagine you'd be quite nervous.

That's very true.

Pistol vs. Assualt rifle?  Outnumbered, and literally trapped in a bus.  Not a good situation, though I'd rather have a gun with me than be in the same situation and have nothing.

Cover an concealment. Considering the circumstances, I would take that over out in the open. 

Concealment yes, but not much cover, an assault rifle would go right through a bus I think.  Your best bet is to get down and make yourself as small as possible.  Shooting back at them would probably draw their fire to where you are, and I doubt the side of a bus would offer much protection from assault rifles would it?

Concealment yes, but not much cover, an assault rifle would go right through a bus I think.  Your best bet is to get down and make yourself as small as possible.  Shooting back at them would probably draw their fire to where you are, and I doubt the side of a bus would offer much protection from assault rifles would it?

No, but anything is better than nothing.  Acknowledging that you really have no idea how you are going to react when put in a situation like this, I am fairly certain had I been there the guy with the assault rifle wouldn't have got a shot off.  At least that would have been my primary goal.  They guy with the pistol would have been a secondary target, dealt with as time and situation permitted.

That's a very difficult shot, you're good.  Most folks like me just go to the firing range, I don't have any training in combat marksmanship.

That's a very difficult shot, you're good.  Most folks like me just go to the firing range, I don't have any training in combat marksmanship.

Actually it would have been quite easy.  You are not the target of this particular guys aggression.  She was pointing whomever it was that was bothering her or calling her the "n" word or whatever.  Giving you plenty of time to take aim and fire.  He wouldn't have even seen it coming.  The secondary target would have been more of a problem after the first rounds were off.  Now you are shooting at a target that is more than likely shooting back.  But at least we are on somewhat equal ground.  Handgun to handgun. 

Watch the highly edited sensationalistic footage of a black man with a gun again.

Fixed. You know Fox News edits the shit out of those things right? I mean it's not like you can start a timer and count how long it took events to happen.

Either way Here's what happened:

-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Gang wins the tough guy contest.
-Everyone goes home and waits for the police to come knocking.

Now here's what happens when Wardogg is on the bus:

-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Wardogg pulls his piece and shouts a heroic warning, like "Armed citizen! Put down your weapons!"
-Dumb gang doesn't give a fuck. They see tough guys every day. Sees the shitty shooter the dog is carrying and thinks "fuck it, we've all got shotguns and assault rifles here".
-Fire becomes targeted. 83 year old pensioner dies. Fat momma with baby severely injured.
-Gang runs away anyway.
-Wardogg hailed hero by Fox News.

Maybe for someone that doesn't handle fully loaded guns on a daily basis.

Like criminals you mean?

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 07, 2011, 04:14:16 AM

Watch the highly edited sensationalistic footage of a black man with a gun again.

Fixed. You know Fox News edits the shit out of those things right? I mean it's not like you can start a timer and count how long it took events to happen.

Either way Here's what happened:

-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Gang wins the tough guy contest.
-Everyone goes home and waits for the police to come knocking.

Now here's what happens when Wardogg is on the bus:

-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Wardogg pulls his piece and shouts a heroic warning, like "Armed citizen! Put down your weapons!"
-Dumb gang doesn't give a fuck. They see tough guys every day. Sees the shitty shooter the dog is carrying and thinks "fuck it, we've all got shotguns and assault rifles here".
-Fire becomes targeted. 83 year old pensioner dies. Fat momma with baby severely injured.
-Gang runs away anyway.
-Wardogg hailed hero by Fox News.

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 07, 2011, 04:14:16 AM

Maybe for someone that doesn't handle fully loaded guns on a daily basis.

Like criminals you mean?

Or, were I on the bus,

-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-I throw smoke grenade (now with tangy capsicum taste!)
-Dumb bitch and brother get scared and run away, or fall to the floor crying. So does everyone else.  Police show up.
-Hailed as a monster elitist by Fox News

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 07, 2011, 04:14:16 AM

Watch the highly edited sensationalistic footage of a black man with a gun again.

Fixed. You know Fox News edits the shit out of those things right? I mean it's not like you can start a timer and count how long it took events to happen.

Either way Here's what happened:

-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Gang wins the tough guy contest.
-Everyone goes home and waits for the police to come knocking.

Now here's what happens when Wardogg is on the bus:

-Dumb bitch phones brother to come scare a dude on a bus.
-Guns fired over heads.
-Everyone scared.
-Wardogg pulls his piece and shouts a heroic warning, like "Armed citizen! Put down your weapons!"
-Dumb gang doesn't give a fuck. They see tough guys every day. Sees the shitty shooter the dog is carrying and thinks "fuck it, we've all got shotguns and assault rifles here".
-Fire becomes targeted. 83 year old pensioner dies. Fat momma with baby severely injured.
-Gang runs away anyway.
-Wardogg hailed hero by Fox News.

Agreed.  I love being called a hero.

Wardogg, do you play any First Person Shooter games?

You know, Wardogg, I can already imagine you sitting in the dock as the prosecutor tells the jury about how a disgruntled veteran lashed out in a fit of racist violence and brutally murdered a young African-American man who was simply carrying a weapon at the time; all the while outside, an angry mob led by Jesse Jackson screams for your blood.

No offense meant, and I certainly don't think that you would be unjustified in shooting that thug.  I'm just saying that an ambitious prosecutor could probably spin the whole thing into a racial issue.

Quote from: Areweonfiya on September 06, 2011, 11:17:36 PM

Can somone please explain to me how exactly carrying a concealed weapon will protect you from getting shot? I mean if somone wants you dead, then you're dead.

Unless of course, you have so many concealed weapons that theyre actually able to cover your entire body and stop any penetrating bullets.

Watch the video again.  Did you see how long it took from the time that guy brandished the weapon before he started shooting? 

>Implying that would happen every time

Quote from: Lorddave on September 07, 2011, 08:49:21 AM

This is strong evidence that concealed carry permits don't help.

Well, I'd say that they don't help in a situation like this.  Engaging in shootouts in crowded places is not safe gun use, and I think most people who have experience with guns would understand this.

Exactly.

So in a crowded, confined area, pulling your pistol and firing isn't helpful.
In a situation where you can't assess the situation perfectly, firing your pistol isn't helpful.
In a situation where someone has an automatic weapon, firing your pistol isn't helpful.
In a situation where someone has shot at you first, firing your pistol isn't helpful.


So aside from someone pulling a knife on you and only you 10 feet away, exactly how helpful is a concealed gun?

You know, Wardogg, I can already imagine you sitting in the dock as the prosecutor tells the jury about how a disgruntled veteran lashed out in a fit of racist violence and brutally murdered a young African-American man who was simply carrying a weapon at the time; all the while outside, an angry mob led by Jesse Jackson screams for your blood.

No offense meant, and I certainly don't think that you would be unjustified in shooting that thug.  I'm just saying that an ambitious prosecutor could probably spin the whole thing into a racial issue.

In Philly, I'd probably agree.  Although he was doing a little more than just "carrying" that weapon at that time.  He screamed of intent.  In TX would be a different story. Just ask " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Joe Horn.  Here it doesn't even have to be in defense of life.  Or your own property.   Of course that new Malcom X guy showed up at his house to protest and was run off by a bunch of bikers.  But it was the same race card played.  I have read a couple of interviews a few years after this happened.  Mr. Horn regrets it every day.  And I listen to those words, trust me.

True story.  I had a buddy, just return from a tour in Afghanistan at home on leave in Alabama.  Pulls into a McDs drive thru at about 11 at nite.  Guy comes up to his window and points a .38 in his face and tells him to get out of the truck.  My buddy obliges but as he is getting out draws his .45 from between his seats.  My buddy is completely out of the vehicle with his firearm hidden behind his back and as the carjacker is coming around the door to get in the vehicle, shoots my buddy in the face.  The round enter his cheek just below the eye and cleared out all the teeth on that side before coming to rest in fragments in his throat.  My buddy brings his .45 up and begins to shoot empyting the magazine.  Kills the carjacker.  My buddy was white, the carjacker was black.  The carjackers family claimed racism.  Its always going to be there no matter how justified the shooting is.   Here is the only news clip I could find about the incident.  http://www.airforcetimes.com/legacy/com/1-292258-1418581.php  Everything else was just forum reprints of the same AP article from 2002.  The account here by the AP is a little erroneous.  He already had the weapon in hand when he was shot.  But he was keeping out of sight and giving up his vehicle.  Thats straight from the horses mouth.  Or what he ended up left with.  He is actually doing fine.  Got out of the Corps when they wouldn't let him fly again due to sinus problems got married and has a couple great kids.  Big Al your preflight pal.  Damn shame.


No offense taken BTW.  Carrying a concealed weapon brings upon a great responsibility.  I will be the first to tell you not everyone that has a license to carry, should.   For multiple reasons.   But I think about the choice I may have to make in a split second every single time I strap that thing on.

No offense taken BTW.  Carrying a concealed weapon brings upon a great responsibility.  I will be the first to tell you not everyone that has a license to carry, should.   For multiple reasons.   But I think about the choice I may have to make in a split second every single time I strap that thing on.

This.

My dad is always carrying a concealed weapon whenever he leaves his house. He used to be a cop in a pretty dangerous city, and I'm guessing he has the same mentality Wardog does when handling it.

The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.

The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.

It is if you're defending yourself against a black person.

Quote from: Vindictus on September 07, 2011, 09:14:12 PM

The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.

It is if you're defending yourself against a black person.

Then it's called a Hate Crime.

If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?

If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?

His truck was being stolen, not just his wallet.

If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?

From what I understand, the .45 was hidden, he didn't bring it out until after he was shot.  Of course I am going by the description and there is no way to know whether or not this actually happened.  But the fact is, most people who want to rob you at gunpoint, or carjack you, are going to shoot your whether you are armed or not.

Quote from: Vindictus on September 07, 2011, 09:14:12 PM

The racism garbage is taken too far. Self defence isn't racism.

It is if you're defending yourself against a black person.

That would be the MSNBC news outlook on it.

Wardogg, do you play any First Person Shooter games?

Not since Duke Nukem and maybe some original Rainbow Six in 1999 or 2000.

Quote from: Areweonfiya on September 07, 2011, 10:18:10 PM

If somone was robbing you at gunpoint and you take out a gun to fight back, the robber would be much more inclined to shoot you. Yes your buddy was unlucky, but that generally doesn't happen. Why risk your life for a wallet at McDonalds?

From what I understand, the .45 was hidden, he didn't bring it out until after he was shot.  Of course I am going by the description and there is no way to know whether or not this actually happened.  But the fact is, most people who want to rob you at gunpoint, or carjack you, are going to shoot your whether you are armed or not.

Yes that's what he told me.  Of course the guy could have caught a glimpse of it or something I don't know. 

Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!

This is what Americans really believe.

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 06, 2011, 06:56:41 PM

Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!

This is what Americans really believe.

Only because the evidence shows us as much.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/elisabethmeinecke/2011/08/15/gun_crimes_in_va_bars_dropped_when_concealed_carry_allowed

Quote from: Parsifal on September 09, 2011, 03:13:04 AM

Quote from: WardoggKC130FE on September 06, 2011, 06:56:41 PM

Let's reduce the number of shootings by carrying more guns!

This is what Americans really believe.

Only because the evidence shows us as much.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/elisabethmeinecke/2011/08/15/gun_crimes_in_va_bars_dropped_when_concealed_carry_allowed

Thank you for providing us with this fair and balanced source.

I'm getting very tired of these types of ad hominens.