Where did the shuttle go?

I have an old school friend who is a rocket scientist.  She worked with NASA for I think 8 or 9 years, then went to work with the DOD working on spy satellites.  I have seen 4 shuttle launches,  and 2 satellite launches from FL.  Where exactly did these go?  Are there really any astronauts?   

What about the private companies and OTHER countries who are now exploring space?  The founder of Amazon.com is exploring new private ways into space.  Richard Bronson is also exploring ways into space.  So are they and their companies part of the conspiracy too?  Not only is NASA helping these companies explore ways into space,  it is stopping its shuttle program.  Why would NASA let a "for profit" company have access?  They want private companies to let people into space.  If it was a conspiracy,  why would they risk the chance of letting other people go up into space.   Pretty soon in the future you will be able to pay to go up into space. 

And finally,  what proof do you guys have of this supposed "Ice Wall"?  Why is it 150 ft...why not 250 ft.  What nationality are the guards...is this just an American conspiracy or a worldwide conspiracy.  I think Russia and China would love to blow this supposed conspiracy out of the water and embarrass the US. 

I have an old school friend who is a rocket scientist.  She worked with NASA for I think 8 or 9 years, then went to work with the DOD working on spy satellites.  I have seen 4 shuttle launches,  and 2 satellite launches from FL.  Where exactly did these go?  Are there really any astronauts?   

What about the private companies and OTHER countries who are now exploring space?  The founder of Amazon.com is exploring new private ways into space.  Richard Bronson is also exploring ways into space.  So are they and their companies part of the conspiracy too?  Not only is NASA helping these companies explore ways into space,  it is stopping its shuttle program.  Why would NASA let a "for profit" company have access?  They want private companies to let people into space.  If it was a conspiracy,  why would they risk the chance of letting other people go up into space.   Pretty soon in the future you will be able to pay to go up into space. 

And finally,  what proof do you guys have of this supposed "Ice Wall"?  Why is it 150 ft...why not 250 ft.  What nationality are the guards...is this just an American conspiracy or a worldwide conspiracy.  I think Russia and China would love to blow this supposed conspiracy out of the water and embarrass the US.

maybe your friend have been bribed or have to shut him mouth up or can be killed (threatened).

essentially ice wall can hold the sea...so ice wall has to be high enough....

the nationallity can be anyone,
let's take a look,
famous figure who conspiracy: galileo, kepler, copernicus, colombus, karl marx, rothschild, rookefeler, george bush, samiri (followers of the prophet Moses who rebelled) and many more......

the conspiracy knows the earth is flat but they hide it (or not aknowledge)...because more profit if say round (sphere)

the conspiracy (work for the lucifer) like to deceive people, actually these people (conspiracy) have learned al-quran and scripture for take a profit from it.
they have their holy book so called talmudz, mislead the holy book because the genuine is Torah.

principle conspiracy is :
1. Gold (wealth)
2. Glory (the winning)
3. Gospel (their mislead manner/way/thought/religion)

the conspiracy is very materialistic.....like money very much....that's the fact...although have to kill innocent person, setting french revolution, WW1, WW2, WW3

But you guys didn't answer the question.  I have seen several shuttle launches....where does it go when it launches from Florida?  How do you know there is an ice wall?  Has anyone ever seen it?  Who guards it?  Has anyone ever seen the guards or are you just guessing?

The shuttle lands at a remote field in the Atlantic. Perhaps a site similar to Lajes or Diego Garcia.
The ice wall has been seen. If you are talking about a several mile high mountain range in the rim country, I'm not sure that it exists at all. Anything about the outer edge of human exploration is pure speculation. It's likely that no one at all guards the icy expanse of the antarctic.

But you guys didn't answer the question.  I have seen several shuttle launches....where does it go when it launches from Florida?  How do you know there is an ice wall?  Has anyone ever seen it?  Who guards it?  Has anyone ever seen the guards or are you just guessing?

First, there are no universal answers to the inquiries you have proposed.  there are many pictures of the ICE wall.  People have seen it.  You can go see it if you like.  The question of gaurds  is one that varies in answer as well.  Some think it is gaurded, but many prominent FE theorist do not think it is necessary.  Its not like once you surmount the wall you will reach the edge, there would be considerable travel to undergo.

Ski is the only poster above me who knew what he was talking about. Please ignore maserati.

The Ice Wall is Antarctica.

Here's my problem with all of this.  People have been saying the earth is a sphere for thousands of years.  The people who started this "conspiracy" would most likely be dead now.  So they would have had to pass on the "secret."   All it would take is for one person to spill the beans and expose it.  The vast number of people who would have to keep this a secret over the decades is extraordinary.   If the world is flat,  then there HAS to be a conspiracy to keep the people in the dark.  People have said the world was a sphere long before NASA or even the United States ever thought about NASA.  So why would those first "conspirators" have even done this?   

Also,  what about the private companies that are now exploring space operations.  Wouldn't the govt try and shut those down?  For $200k right now Russia will take anyone to space.   Why would they allow that if they were going to see a flat earth? 

I live ocean front in South Carolina.  Every single day I see ships coming over the horizon,  mast first.  The people on the 1st floor see less of the ship than I do on the 23rd floor.   No optical illusion is going to produce that....no matter is sunny,  or hazy,  or whatever.  The same can be said for every ocean horizon in the world. 

Also,  simultaneously measuring the length of the shadows cast by identical poles perpendicular to a flat surface that is tangential to the earth's radius at various, distant locations. If indeed the earth is round, then the shadows should all vary in length from one distant location to another, which means that the angle at which the parallel rays of sunlight struck each pole varied from one location to another. (recall the alternate-angles theorem from Geometry class) If the earth is flat, then the lengths of all the shadows should be identical when measured simultaneously, since all rays of sunlight that strike the earth are parallel. However, they are not identical, but in fact, varies in such a way that the angles indicate a spherical surface. (This was one of the earliest methods to determine the radius of the earth)

And finally,  how is it I can see the space station with my telescope in the mornings?   Usually about 5-6am just before sunrise. 

People have said the world was a sphere long before NASA or even the United States ever thought about NASA.  So why would those first "conspirators" have even done this?   

Quote from: Ski on October 07, 2008, 12:39:07 PM

In the late 15th century cartography was entering an exciting new time. New lands were being found. Previously uncharted islands, indeed even continents, were being added to world maps. The BGMG found a splendid way to find massive amounts of Royal funding (commissions). If you convince burgeoning world powers that their maps are completely inadequate and only a globe can accurately depict the earth, you're in for a lot of commissioned work. Add to that the fact globes became a status symbol in vogue among the wealthy of the period and you have an enormous cash cow.
But this ignores (or only scrapes) the actual depth of the plan. The goal of the BGMG was not map-making or wealth from it. The goal was power. To gain influence at court led to all sorts of potential for abuse of such power. This was an age where the court was the center of power; "scientists" vied to have their ideas heard. The difference between living in obscurity and becoming a household name was a "discovery" away. Further, it was the Age of Discovery, where untold wealth might be a ship's journey away for a kingdom -- indeed this was the genesis of European imperialism. Map makers invented islands and continents to attain funding for expeditions. The closer you find yourselves to the strings of power, the more opportunity for corruption.

And certainly not all evidence from the era was malicious. It was simply fallacious. For example Eratosthenes's experiment in antiquity which assumes parallel light rays from a very distant sun was certainly not malicious.

Also,  what about the private companies that are now exploring space operations.  Wouldn't the govt try and shut those down?  For $200k right now Russia will take anyone to space.   Why would they allow that if they were going to see a flat earth? 

The Russians actually stopped offering to take people to space last year after lofting a staggering sum of seven "tourists". The other proposals (none of them actually operational, mind you), do not propose to do anything at all impossible. Sub-orbital flight is an overpriced amusement ride for people with more money than sense.

I live ocean front in South Carolina.  Every single day I see ships coming over the horizon,  mast first.  The people on the 1st floor see less of the ship than I do on the 23rd floor.   No optical illusion is going to produce that...

This is simple perspective. Of course you will see more from a higher vantage point.

Also,  simultaneously measuring the length of the shadows cast by identical poles perpendicular to a flat surface that is tangential to the earth's radius at various, distant locations. If indeed the earth is round, then the shadows should all vary in length from one distant location to another, which means that the angle at which the parallel rays of sunlight struck each pole varied from one location to another. (recall the alternate-angles theorem from Geometry class) If the earth is flat, then the lengths of all the shadows should be identical when measured simultaneously, since all rays of sunlight that strike the earth are parallel. However, they are not identical, but in fact, varies in such a way that the angles indicate a spherical surface. (This was one of the earliest methods to determine the radius of the earth)

This relies on the faulty assumption that the sun is millions of miles distant and that the sun's rays are, in fact, parallel.

And finally,  how is it I can see the space station with my telescope in the mornings?   Usually about 5-6am just before sunrise. 

If you say you saw something, I'm sure you did. I'm sure it was not a man made object in perpetual free fall, however.

If you say you saw something, I'm sure you did. I'm sure it was not a man made object in perpetual free fall, however.

There's something up there:






Source: http://ralfvandebergh.startje.be/vieuw.php?qid=303316
Video:

Those pictures are no more impressive than this one:

Those pictures are no more impressive than this one:

I don't get your point.
Something up there looks like the the space shuttle discovery, and something up there looks like the ISS. Lots of ground base pictures of this thing have been taken. So, how did these photos come to be.

This is nice:


From clay center observatory.

Probably in the same manner as the one I posted above.

Probably in the same manner as the one I posted above.

I don't know the source of yours, but these were taken by an amateur photographer. (not the clay center one, but the others).
All of these were taken through a telescope. Which indicates that they are up there, and exactly where NASA says they are. I don't see how you are arguing for a conspiracy. Enlighten me.

Someone once claimed that the one I posted was from an amateur photographer as well.

Someone once claimed that the one I posted was from an amateur photographer as well.

What about the pictures taken from observatories? Are those fake as well?

Someone once claimed that the one I posted was from an amateur photographer as well.

Well was it? What's the source?
Source this stuff, like:

Source: http://www.astrophoto.fr/

Are you claiming all these people are fakers? or even in on the conspiracy?

Amateur "space photographers" are nearly as competitive as bird watchers. I'm sure there are manufactured claims. I see no reason that everyone who looks at the sky is in on the conspiracy.

Amateur "space photographers" are nearly as competitive as bird watchers. I'm sure there are manufactured claims. I see no reason that everyone who looks at the sky is in on the conspiracy.

Source: http://www.astrophoto.fr/

I find it unlikely that these people are simply photoshopping these pictures, or are stealing these pictures from somewhere.
Please explain what you think these photographers are doing that is under the table: if they point their telescopes where the ISS or shuttle should be and take these photos, that, to me, is evidence of a space program.

I think those are the clearest pictures I've seen which claim to be taken from the earth. I'm amazed at the lack of atmospheric distortion. I would be stunned if they were possible.

For the clear one from clay center:
http://www.clayobservatory.org/press-releases/shooting-the-space-station/

They had a great telescope under calm skies, and shot a high quality video. Then, a computer searched for the sharpest photos, and merged them.

It's pretty hard to claim that they were just pulling a stunt without being part of the conspiracy. This was a project by the director and and a fellow researcher. (Ronald Dantowitz and Marek Kozubal)
http://www.clayobservatory.org/about/staff/

As for the other photos from Ralf Vandebergh, I purposely choose good looking pictures to get the most detail. Even these are obviously blurry, as are all his other shots. He's taken so many pictures, that, on some nights, the seeing will be good. He also takes many shots and chooses the best. If possible (good seeing), he combines photos taken in quick succession.
http://ralfvandebergh.startje.be/

As for Thierry Legault's photos, they are also blurred.
look at the video on http://legault.perso.sfr.fr/STS-134.html.
you can see how the atmosphere is changing as the station passes over.
(also a cool 3D video)
He also takes videos and chooses sharp images
Here's his procedure: http://legault.perso.sfr.fr/EM400.html

amazing faqqers waste so much time trying to argue and not experimenting their self.
I myself have viewed the ISS by telescope, which is pretty cool...

faqqers deny all space travel, because doing so apparently proves Earth is a sphere,
when all "pictures" show a giant lit disc. 

It is SO easy to "cry" conspiracy and shut your eyes to Zetetic astronomy.


oh wait, holographic imagery, produced by NASA, or mass mind machines...

The shuttle lands at a remote field in the Atlantic. Perhaps a site similar to Lajes or Diego Garcia.

I have not seen any evidence for this, I must zetetically conclude that this is a falsehood.

I agree with this cartoon guy, these people are perpetuating, and are part of the scam whether they know it or not. I do feel the need currently to by my own telescope, and i will be doing so.

Amateur "space photographers" are nearly as competitive as bird watchers. I'm sure there are manufactured claims. I see no reason that everyone who looks at the sky is in on the conspiracy.

Bird watchers fake photos of birds..??  that's news to me.

Bird watchers fake photos of birds..??  that's news to me.

Everything is fake except for moon shrimp, those are real.

Why don't you FErs go to NASAs website,   Find out when the ISS is going to be passing by your area and then go borrow a telescope,  and take a look for yourself.   If the sky is clear,  you can see it plain as day.   I've seen it several times.   It's not like it's hiding.  Anyone with a brain and a half decent telescope can go look at it.   

Why don't you FErs go to NASAs website,   Find out when the ISS is going to be passing by your area and then go borrow a telescope,  and take a look for yourself.   If the sky is clear,  you can see it plain as day.   I've seen it several times.   It's not like it's hiding.  Anyone with a brain and a half decent telescope can go look at it.

Nonsense, that's just a holographic projection.

Why don't you FErs go to NASAs website,   Find out when the ISS is going to be passing by your area and then go borrow a telescope,  and take a look for yourself.   If the sky is clear,  you can see it plain as day.   I've seen it several times.   It's not like it's hiding.  Anyone with a brain and a half decent telescope can go look at it.

But then they wouldn't be able to argue here in good conscience, and that would spoil the fun.

You can't have a pet conspiracy theory if you are going to let something like the facts staring you in the face, literally, spoil the joy of thinking you alone amongst millions have cottoned on to the conspiracy.