Flat Earth in the Quran

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Agnostic

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  • Sylvain P. - French Engineer & Flat Earth Theorist
Flat Earth in the Quran
« on: August 26, 2011, 01:26:15 AM »
First, a video here, an Iraqi debate on the FET in Islam:



« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 01:34:40 AM by Agnostic »
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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Agnostic

  • 682
  • Sylvain P. - French Engineer & Flat Earth Theorist
Re: Flat Earth in the Qur'an
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 01:29:02 AM »
Analysis by an Islamic theologian, "Logical Thinker"

I have read many articles over the last year where different people have tried to explain that the Quran is describing a flat earth. Countering this, many Muslims like Dr Naik have tried to prove that the Quran is describing a spherical model as we know it today. What I find with Dr Naiks arguments is that he makes too many assumptions and tries to manufacture Quran verses to fit his model. This is both dangerous from religious and scientific viewpoints.

From a religious viewpoint, if anybody can do this, we can easily create another subset within Islam and create a new religion. How do you think the Shias, Kadianis, Ismaelies sprung up. If we assume too much, we will soon find Naik claiming to be a new prophet. He is already trying to prove the Quran wrong and is well on his way as he has commanded a reasonable following. This also makes Dr Naik a Kafir, as he is trying to prove the Quran wrong.

From a scientific viewpoint, Dr Naik, whilst trying to prove that the Quran is very scientific, is also breaking the basic rules of science. He is making too many assumptions in his arguments and is running around all the scientific encyclopedias to find theories that fit his model. He is very imaginative and cunning, hence deceiving even the muslim scientific minds. Naik and Bucaille have truly taken the Muslims for a ride and have made a lot of money by telling Muslims what they want to hear. The Muslims, on the other hand are completely blind and are following them in masses. Since Naik and Bucaille are both medics, their arguments are equivalent to assuming that when a patient walks through the door, he/she must have cancer and immediately start administering chemotheraphy treatment. We know how dangerous this assumption would lead to. A doctor would immediately be struck off if he/she made such assumptions. You would normally look for symptoms and follow up with blood tests, scans etc before making any conclusions.

I will now prove to you that the Quran is only describing a Flat model. I will achieve this by quoting only verses from the Quran.
For strengthening my argument, I have used 7 Suras, which either contain descriptive verses or verses that would only be applicable to a Flat earth model. If I have missed any suras that describe a spherical model, please bring this to my attention and I will update this document. So far, I have not found any verses that support a spherical model. I have used the Noble Quran translation, which is very well accepted and trusted by the Muslim world. I would strongly recommend you to use your own trusted version to follow these verses.

Before I continue, for the benefit of those who are not scientific, we need to understand the main differences between the belief that existed since the Greek civilisation in a flat world model, until Galileo (1564 1642) proved that the earth was spherical. Galileo was persecuted by the Christians and made to renounce his findings as it went against the teachings of the Bible. We should thank him for our space exploitation today. It has given us Satellite TV, Mobile Phones etc. I will now explain the two models below :-

Flat Earth Model


    Belief assumed earth was completely flat
    Day and night could not happen simultaneously
    Earth fixed and sun orbiting the earth
    Myths were ripe surrounding where the sun set and rose from
    Model could only support a single sunrise and sunset point
    Model could not support different time zones across the world

Spherical Earth Model

    Earth is almost spherical with a few minor exceptions around the poles
    Earth orbits the SUN
    Earth is spinning to give us day and night simultaneously
    SUN is static relative to the earth
    Each point on earth has its own sunrise and sunset point
    Different time zones supported across the world

Before I present the verses of the Quran that describes the earth, I will start of with the following verse.

Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:3)

    We verily, have made it a Qur'n in Arabic, that you may be able to understand (its meanings and its admonitions).

This verse is clearly telling us that the Quran is meant to be easily understood and not what Dr Naik assumes, by taking us around the universe. Galaxies were not understood at the time the Quran was revealed and hence would have confused the people at the time. Also, as you will notice, all suras I have pointed out were revealed in Makkah, at a time when the prophet was under immense pressure to explain every verse of the Quran clearly. Naik is using fallacy and creating his own science in the Quran.

These are the Descriptive verses

Sura Al-Kahf (18:47)


    And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away (like clouds of dust), and you will see the earth as a levelled plain, and we shall gather them all together so as to leave not one of them behind.

Sura Taha (20:53)

    Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths etc.) for you therein; and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation.

Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:10)

    Who has made for you the earth like a bed, and has made for you roads therein, in order that you may find your way.

Sura Az-Zukhruf (43:38)

    Till, when (such a one) comes to Us, he says [to his Qarn (Satan / devil companion)] "Would that between me and you were the distance of the two easts (or the east and west)" a worst (type of) companion (indeed)!


Sura An-Naba (78:6)


    Have We not made the earth as a bed,

Sura An-Naziat (79:30)

    And after that He spread the earth;

These verses would only be applicable to a flat earth belief

Sura An-Naml (27:61)

    Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode, and has placed rivers in its midst, and has placed firm mountains therein, and has set a barrier between the two seas (of salt and sweet water).Is there any ilh (god) with Allh? Nay, but most of them know not.

Sura Al-Kahf (18:86)

    Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allh) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."

Sura Al-Kahf (18:90)


    Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (Allh) had provided no shelter against the sun.

Sura Yasin (36:38)

    And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

Sura Yasin (36:40)


    It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

All these verses support a Flat earth model that the Quran is describing. I strongly encourage you to read these Suras in their entirety, to prove to yourself that I have not taken or used any verse out of context. If you feel that I have missed any verses which describe or support a spherical model, please provide me the verses from the Quran. Any imaginations not supported by a verse from the Quran will NOT be acceptable.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 02:30:10 AM by Agnostic »
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

?

Agnostic

  • 682
  • Sylvain P. - French Engineer & Flat Earth Theorist
Re: Flat Earth in the Qur'an
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2011, 01:31:25 AM »
Interesting comments following the analysis of Logical Thinker

The Quranic verses which are accurately quoted in this article plainly reveal that Muhammad believed that the Earth was as flat as a pancake.

Even if you twist the meaning of the plain Arabic words, apply a generous dose of taqiyya, make the words stand on their heads and do a double-flip you can still only come to the same conclusion of a Quranic flat Earth model belief.

Even the Quran says the same thing, that both the Moon and the Sun orbit the Earth -

Sura Yasin 36:40 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

It is reported in the early Islamic traditions that Muhammad was in a state of blind panic when he experienced an eclipse for the first time in Medina. He probably thought that his Allah was finally going to punish him for falsely claiming to be His mouthpiece.
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

?

Agnostic

  • 682
  • Sylvain P. - French Engineer & Flat Earth Theorist
Re: Flat Earth in the Qur'an
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2011, 01:32:19 AM »
Interesting comments following the analysis of Logical Thinker

You may need to add the following verses.

a. And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. 15:19.

b. They ask thee concerning the Mountains: say, "My Lord will uproot them and scatter them as dust; "He will leave them as plains smooth and level; "Nothing crooked or curved wilt thou see in their place." 20:105-107.

c. It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course. 21:33

d. He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again? 39:5.

e. And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)- To be observed and commemorated by every devotee turning (to Allah).. 50:7-8
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

?

Thork

Re: Flat Earth in the Quran
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2011, 02:10:13 AM »
This thread has little to do with flat earth and is now just a soap box for Islam. Could it be moved to RM so as the society may give an honest critique of the OP's work?

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Agnostic

  • 682
  • Sylvain P. - French Engineer & Flat Earth Theorist
Re: Flat Earth in the Quran
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2011, 02:14:45 AM »
I just provide information, this is in no way proselytism. Your message has been reported as breaking the rules.

I am not islamic, I just provide useful information unseen yet here. There also exists information on FET in Bible on these forums.

let people interested on the topic decide by themselves what to do with the info here.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 04:19:51 PM by Agnostic »
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

?

Thork

Re: Flat Earth in the Quran
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2011, 02:25:34 AM »
Being as this is the 2nd time in two days you have made a thread on Islam and FET and neither have had any interest, it seems people have decided for themselves. This is nonsense.

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markjo

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Re: Flat Earth in the Quran
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2011, 04:08:46 PM »
This is not a debate forum.  If you have a problem with the content of this thread, then bring it up in S&C.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.