Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system

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Using mathematics and the very accurate projected trajectory of the moon around the earth and the earth around the sun, scientists can predict when total solar eclipses will occur. here is the list for the next 20 years or so:

http://www.earthview.com/timetable/futureTSE.htm

this is guaranteed, as it has been proven in the past and it will be proven in the future every time a new eclipse happens, because we knew it was going to happen, based on sound empirical science.

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse.html

There is no need for pseudo science: made up anti moons, or shadow objects, or submoons, or any other fantasy celestial body you create to account for what true science knows as fact.

-UNIVERSE

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Thork

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 11:46:32 AM »
Using mathematics and the very accurate projected trajectory of the moon around the earth and the earth around the sun, scientists can predict when total solar eclipses will occur. here is the list for the next 20 years or so:
No, that is not how they are calculated. They are derived from a table because of their regularity.

Quote from: http://www.astronomytoday.com/eclipses/modern-part1.html
Christopher Columbus' Eclipse (1504 CE)
After a long trip to the Americas in 1503, in his fourth voyage, Columbus was stranded on the island of Jamaica. In principle, he managed to obtain provisions from the Caciques natives in exchange for some trinkets and rubbish. As the months went by, novelty and hospitality started to decrease and also the sailors became more aggressive with the natives in order to obtain food. Then the native Jamaicans communicated to the Spanish that they would not provide any more supplies.

Columbus became desperate with the threat of famine and came up with an ingenious plan. He checked his Calendarium, which contained predictions of lunar eclipses for several years. In particular, it predicted a total eclipse of the Moon on the Antilles on February 29, 1504 CE. That evening, he invited the Caciques onboard his Capitana for a serious conversation. He told them that they were Christians and their God did not like the way they had been treating them and would punish the Indians with famine and pestilence and, as a sign of dissatisfaction, he would darken the Moon. As soon as he said that, the Earth's shadow started to cover the white disk. Terrified, the natives begged Columbus to bring back the light. According to Ferdinand Columbus (second son of Christopher Columbus), cited by Sinnot (1992):

The Indians observed this [the eclipse] and were so astonished and frightened that with great cries and lamentations they came running from all directions to the ships, carrying provisions and begging (...) and promising they would diligently supply all their needs in the future.

He replied that he needed to consult his God. He shut himself in a cabin for nearly two hours. Just before the end of totality, he reappeared and announced that God had given his pardon, and would bring them back the Moon provided that the Christians were given provisions. Immediately, the Moon reappeared. Astonished, the natives immediately provided Columbus and his crew their needed provisions until they were able to return to Europe.

The use of eclipses as a tool to manipulate populations less knowledgeable about eclipses is also present in diverse works of fiction. In 1889, Mark Twain published A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, a novel envisioning life in the sixth-century England. The author has Hank Morgan, the yankee in the title, hoodwinking the ignorant folk of that era by invoking prior knowledge of a solar eclipse on June 21, 528 CE. Twain has Morgan, who is jailed awaiting execution, threaten King Arthur with a blanking out of the Sun:

Go back and tell the king that at that hour I will smother the whole world in the dead blackness of midnight; I will blot out the Sun, and he shall never shine again; the fruits of the Earth shall not rot for lack of light and warmth, and the peoples of the Earth shall famish and die, to the last man!

The description provided by Twain is accurate in many senses, except for the fact that there was no solar eclipse at all visible in England in 528 CE. There are more examples of this theme in literature, such as The Adventures of Tintin by Georges Remi and King Solomon's Mines by H. Rider Haggard.

That happened in 1503. More than 150 years before Newton came up with his gravity nonsense and 40 years before Copernicus suggested heliocentrism, so do not tell me people calculate this using round earth mathematics. They have the frequency, they subsequently shoehorn their ropey round earth formula around it to fit. Eclipses are calculated by patterns, not formula. >:(

Your entire OP is fraudulent.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 01:21:43 PM by Thork »

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 12:13:41 PM »
all paths are projected on a round earth, accurately:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEcat5/SEmapkey.html

and i found a good eclipse for beginners link. no fairy tale anti-moon needed!!  :D

http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/SEprimer.html


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Thork

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 12:21:13 PM »
Again, the results are found using patterns and tables. Seeing NASA trying to explain it does nothing to hide the fact that people have been predicting eclipses a long time before any of the round earth mathematics was made up.
It certainly is in no way proof of a round earth, if it could be done before 'gravity' was even heard of and at a time when people thought the sun went round the earth. NASA just make their numbers fit. You are aware NASA are evil right?

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 12:39:19 PM »
you are aware that is your opinion and not fact. they aren't evil just because your people concocted a  conspiracy about them. there's conspiracies about JFKs assassination, about moon landings (which you obviously don't believe), about 911, about obama being the anti christ, and that the holocaust never happened. you are all just crazy people who deny facts and replace them with fabricated nonsense, and for what reason?! i still have to find out.

it seems nothing would convince you otherwise as well, we have so many photos of a round earth and none of a flat one. i'm telling ya, once civilians go into space and start taking photos themselves and uploading them to their facebook accounts, you will lose members. but you my friend seem especially devoted to this lie, so i think there is no hope for you. very odd to say the least, i've never experienced this type of stubborn ignorance, hence why i am still here conversing. but that will soon fade as i continue to watch the science, discovery, smithsonian channel etc., visit museums, read science articles and listen to podcasts from scientists in the astronomy field, and follow all the scientific discoveries about this wonderful universe we live in, and you will sadly hold onto this flat earth idea and be overly skeptical when it's just preventing you from observing the wonder that is our solar system, our galaxy, our universe.

only a small minority of people believe in a flat earth and that's because the earth is not flat. It's not even up for debate in science. that is what baffles me. No educational institution will support it because it's already been proven false. it's like trying to prove that the air is made out of plutonium and fairy dust when it's already been proven that it is nitrogen, oxygen, argon, CO2 and other gases. you are trying to prove something false that has been proven true. quite entertaining, so please continue to argue your case.  :D

-UNIVERSE
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 12:43:15 PM by universe »

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Thork

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 12:46:29 PM »
only a small minority of people believe in a flat earth and that's because the earth is not flat.

Only 2.35% of people on earth are atheist.



If you are one of them, I'm sure you will argue that despite being in the minority, science is on your side. ::)

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 12:58:49 PM »
who said anything about atheism or religion?

I consider myself agnostic, meaning that i believe in a god but none of the religions are 100% correct in their beliefs and teachings.

even the vatican scientists have agreed not only that the earth is round, but that evolution can be compatible with christianity.

this world is changing, we are growing as a collective civilization of knowledge, we are slowly progressing towards the real truth and you are stubbornly holding onto ancient world views and are accomplishing nothing by doing so.

look at the photo of the galaxy to the left. Our sun in just a speck of light amongst millions of other suns (stars). and guess what we also know. our entire galaxy is nothing but a speck in the whole universe which has billions of other galaxies. These are scientific truths, you have pseudo science, anti moons, lizard people, ice walls guarded by men.

i applaud your creativity, but pity your ignorance.

-UNIVERSE



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Thork

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2011, 01:08:19 PM »
No, you are missing the point. I'm not stuck in the past, or lacking information, or making a bad call. I have spent far more time than you collecting evidence on earth's shape, and all things considered, that evidence points to a flat earth. I am some what of an expert on earth's shape. With all due respect, you have 19 posts and an opinion that was given to you as a child. I have spent large portions of my adult life collecting and analysing earth shape data and documentation.

Its is you that should be pitied. It is you that is stubborn and close-minded. The Conspiracy has infected you with ignorance. :'(

The good news is you can wake from the nightmare. Look out of the window, what do you see? Use your senses to make up your own mind, instead of letting other people make it up for you. It is liberating. :D



Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 01:15:09 PM »
who said anything about atheism or religion?

I consider myself agnostic, meaning that i believe in a god but none of the religions are 100% correct in their beliefs and teachings.

That's not what agnostic means. And he brought up the religion thing because whether many people believe in something or not does not affect a theory's validity.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.

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thefireproofmatch

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2011, 01:19:14 PM »
I'm not stuck in the past, or lacking information, or making a bad call.
Where FE'rs lack information or proof, they make up theories that have no basis in reality or science. (Antimoon, UA, magic perspective, anything James says, the Conspiracy™, etc)
Its is you that should be pitied. It is you that is stubborn and close-minded. The Conspiracy has infected you with ignorance. :'(
::)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 01:33:10 PM by thefireproofmatch »
we're expected to throw up our hands and just BELIEVE.

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2011, 01:27:33 PM »
it wouldn't be liberating, it would be backwards. in due time my old friend you might somehow be proved of the truth. in due time you might let go of this flat earth fairy tale, for the truth will set you freeeeeeeee!

it must be difficult to hear all the scientific discoveries (if you do read the news) and denounce any of them that imply a round earth. I couldn't imagine not being in awe of our universe based on a simplistic belief that the earth is a disk.

you say look out the window and what do you see, well i encourage you to look out the window with a telescope.
question: do you think other galaxies exist? you can view our closest galactic neighbor with a normal consumer telescope. the beautiful Andromeda galaxy, which is extremely similar to our own Milky Way.
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~huffman/m31.html

every single star in the sky is another sun with the potential to have planets around them, and some of those planets might be in the sweet spot where liquid water exists and offers the opportunity for life to evolve. We are so fortunate to be on a planet that does and we are unique and special as a species, for we have evolved the ability to have self awareness, increased consciousness and develop technology to assist us in this thirst for truth. we wish to survive and knowledge is they key to do so.

and it's funny how you value someone's opinion based on how many posts they have had on this ridiculous forum and not by the words they speak. hear the truth, we are NOT the center of the universe. we are a spec, orbiting a spec, orbiting a spec. But, fear not, we are unique for we are alive, conscious and slowly using our senses and technology to explore area's of our universe we never could before. I think you should drop your guard and check out any space show on the science channel one day. you are obviously intelligent enough to debate something false, so I know you would appreciate the actual truth about our universe and it's wonder. it's way more incredible than you make it out to be and I want nothing more than for all humans to share that feeling.  8)

-UNIVERSE

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Thork

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2011, 01:38:12 PM »
Read your post back. Sounds like a fairytale doesn't it?

I have not claimed the earth is the centre of the universe. I am claiming the earth is flat. One has no bearing upon the other. I'm sure I showed you in another thread what a silly statement that was anyway.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=50056.msg1229813#msg1229813

We are unique, earth's ability to harbour life is unique but under no circumstances is earth's shape to be considered unique? You can pick and chose whatever you want to believe, but you are starting to sound irrational and impressionable.

FYI I subscribe to NASA news feeds, read science journals and watch as many documentaries as I can. And if you do so with a sceptical eye, the holes become very apparent.

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thefireproofmatch

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2011, 01:41:13 PM »
And if you do so with a sceptical eye, the holes become very apparent.
Only apparent to you, apparently.
we're expected to throw up our hands and just BELIEVE.

Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2011, 02:05:45 PM »
I agree! It does sound like a fairy tale, and it's all true. that's what makes it so incredible and fascinating. Science has discovered what we couldn't even imagine in our wildest dreams, this universe truly is an amazing spectacle, this wonderful science fair project that some creator has stirred up, utilizing mass/energy and the laws of physics to somehow congeal life that becomes self aware with a desire to figure it all out. Essentially a small part of the universe discovering itself. beautiful!  :D

i choose to believe the truth which has been explored and discovered using true unbiased scientific experimentation, not to mention the massive amounts of direct observations we have from outer space (of a round earth which just happens to match every other large round body in this universe).

I think it's wonderful you expose yourself to true scientific journals and programs. so that means you have all the knowledge and the proof already in your brain, you just deny it.

• do you believe that our sun is the same general chemical composition of all the other stars in our galaxy, in the universe?

• do you believe that gravity is a force of attraction between two physical objects based on their mass?

• do you believe that this gravity controls the motion of moons around saturn, jupiter and all the other planets that have moons? these orbits maintained by the balance between gravity and the objects velocity.

• do you believe that this universe is vast almost beyond comprehension?

• do you believe life is only unique on earth and no where else in the universe?

• don't you find it odd that every other celestial body we observe is spherical? why is our's the only exception?

knowing your personal thoughts for these questions might help me hone in on the intellectual hurdle that is preventing you from letting go of the flat earth theory.

we're getting there, but we have a long way to go!!

the
-UNIVERSE
is calling

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momentia

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2011, 02:30:22 PM »
Again, the results are found using patterns and tables. Seeing NASA trying to explain it does nothing to hide the fact that people have been predicting eclipses a long time before any of the round earth mathematics was made up.
It certainly is in no way proof of a round earth, if it could be done before 'gravity' was even heard of and at a time when people thought the sun went round the earth. NASA just make their numbers fit. You are aware NASA are evil right?


Yes, they accurately predicted ellipses. Probably because the planets go in eclipses. Then, newton discovered the inverse square law of gravitational force. (ignore relativity, since that is very well approximated by newtonian physics with the masses and distances in the solar system). You believe in the electric force, right? Same basic form of inverse square law. And, using this gravitational law and the conservation of angular momentum, it is very easy to determine that smaller bodies will orbit more massive bodies in an ellipse. Look it up. I've done the calculations myself.

All planet orbits are explainable this way.

Also, stars seem to rotate in concentric circles around the north AND SOUTH pole, implying that the south pole exists and is on an axis of rotation.

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berny_74

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2011, 03:07:06 PM »
Again, the results are found using patterns and tables. Seeing NASA trying to explain it does nothing to hide the fact that people have been predicting eclipses a long time before any of the round earth mathematics was made up.

Did you read the Javascript program that is used by the site and any of the programmers notes?
Can you develop a mathematical formula for the a series of events without previously knowing when the events where.

Remember TB's fiasco with the position of Mars - where two Openware free software programs where presented which had mathematical formulas available and where one member of the board, Nolkeh, developed his own?

Berny
Also, stars seem to rotate in concentric circles around the north AND SOUTH pole, implying that the south pole exists and is on an axis of rotation.
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Theodolite

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2011, 10:38:02 PM »
No, you are missing the point. I'm not stuck in the past, or lacking information, or making a bad call. I have spent far more time than you collecting evidence on earth's shape, and all things considered, that evidence points to a flat earth. I am some what of an expert on earth's shape. With all due respect, you have 19 posts and an opinion that was given to you as a child. I have spent large portions of my adult life collecting and analysing earth shape data and documentation.

Its is you that should be pitied. It is you that is stubborn and close-minded. The Conspiracy has infected you with ignorance. :'(

The good news is you can wake from the nightmare. Look out of the window, what do you see? Use your senses to make up your own mind, instead of letting other people make it up for you. It is liberating. :D

Please excuse Thork, he is angry because he wasted so many years wasting a theory with defenses that I have proven to be false
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2011, 11:15:05 PM »
you are aware that is your opinion and not fact.
It's common knowledge that Egyptian priests used their ability to predict eclipses to intimidate people.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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thefireproofmatch

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2011, 05:01:15 AM »
you are aware that is your opinion and not fact.
It's common knowledge that Egyptian priests used their ability to predict eclipses to intimidate people.
Good thing this isn't ancient egypt.
we're expected to throw up our hands and just BELIEVE.

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squevil

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2011, 07:35:24 AM »
No, you are missing the point. I'm not stuck in the past, or lacking information, or making a bad call. I have spent far more time than you collecting evidence on earth's shape, and all things considered, that evidence points to a flat earth. I am some what of an expert on earth's shape. With all due respect, you have 19 posts and an opinion that was given to you as a child. I have spent large portions of my adult life collecting and analysing earth shape data and documentation.

Its is you that should be pitied. It is you that is stubborn and close-minded. The Conspiracy has infected you with ignorance. :'(

The good news is you can wake from the nightmare. Look out of the window, what do you see? Use your senses to make up your own mind, instead of letting other people make it up for you. It is liberating. :D

you study the internet, not collecting evidence

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ozmax

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2011, 09:01:20 AM »
I'm not stuck in the past, or lacking information, or making a bad call.

I have spent far more time than you collecting evidence on earth's shape

I am some what of an expert on earth's shape.

I have spent large portions of my adult life collecting and analysing earth shape data and documentation.

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claims?
advocate of simulated commiseration

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Roundy

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2011, 09:03:34 AM »
I'm not stuck in the past, or lacking information, or making a bad call.

I have spent far more time than you collecting evidence on earth's shape

I am some what of an expert on earth's shape.

I have spent large portions of my adult life collecting and analysing earth shape data and documentation.

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claims?

Do they ever?

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professor

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Re: Scientists predict the future paths of all bodies in our solar system
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2011, 06:16:29 PM »
I'm not stuck in the past, or lacking information, or making a bad call.

I have spent far more time than you collecting evidence on earth's shape

I am some what of an expert on earth's shape.

I have spent large portions of my adult life collecting and analysing earth shape data and documentation.

Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claims?

Do they ever?

yes they have, go away you NASA troll