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James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane

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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2011, 04:41:37 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 04:13:17 PM
You're aware of a thing called "exposure time", right?

you are aware of a thing called moonlight right? Have you ever been outside during a full moon or are you worried about something else without any evidence, like werewolves? Is there any photo you will accept of moonlight or are you really going to sit there and say that moonlight doesn't light up the surface of the earth (especially viewing it above the clouds) as we have all witnessed this outdoors at some point in our lives. The point that you people are really going to debate the existence of moonlight makes obvious troll pretty obvious.

http://sarnd.tumblr.com/post/430713552/atozfield-rod42-mrshats-moonlight

How did they get these horses to stand so still, mid gallop during a 13 second exposure without blurring the shot? Amazing.
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Ski

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #61 on: September 27, 2011, 04:54:36 PM »
I'm not denying that moonlight exists. I'm denying that the picture posted is anything other than a long exposure photo. Like many Mr. Tafreshi has taken, it is a lovely image, but clearly taken with a long exposure time. This means it appears lighter than it would otherwise look.
The horse photo looks like a composite image. Can you source it for us?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #62 on: September 27, 2011, 05:27:10 PM »
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 04:07:36 PM
A flat disc absolutely does not look like a circle from every angle except looking at it parallel. the moment you start tilting a disc, it's two dimensional appearance starts to turn into an oblong oval and eventually a flat plane. Again, take a coin out of your pocket and look at it face first. start flipping the coin and the circle flattens eventually becoming a flat line at it's parralel. Or simply look at this picture of tops below.  Even a monkey could do this experiment with a frisbee in their hand. Apparently Tom suffers from a bad case of night blindness too if he's never see the clouds lit up on a full moon night or looked out over a field when the moon is full. I think we figured out your problem, you need better glasses.



I didn't say that a circle looks like a perfect circle from every angle. I said that a circle looks round from all angles except one parallel to the circle's surface.

My statement was accurate. Ovals are round.

Those tops are round. When looking down at them they have curved edges.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 05:36:07 PM by Tom Bishop »
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2011, 05:32:53 PM »
what evidence do you have that it is a composite image, other than its existence destroys your argument? The shadows look right to me, and why bother photoshopping something that occurs all of the time, (a bright moonlit night) As I asked before, is there an image you will accept? quit throwing out red herring distractions about having an extensive citation on a photo and just admit that we have all seen bright moonlit nights and that arguing against that is so trollish, its ridiculous. If I was trying to prove the existence of a horse by showing a picture, would your demands be so outlandish? I guess they would have to be if you were arguing that horses did not exist. I also love how the picture of the tops is being totally ignored. Nice job there.

http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=13&month=01&year=2009

Once again, Ice skaters, in motion, are they holding that pose for overexposure? If this one isn't good enough for you, with its source, nothing will be. Calling "fake" isn't an argument, it's a cop out. Like I said before, it isn't good enough for you when we call FE fake, why do you expect it to be for me?
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Tom Bishop

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2011, 05:33:48 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 04:13:17 PM
You're aware of a thing called "exposure time", right?
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pitdroidtech

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2011, 05:42:11 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 27, 2011, 05:33:48 PM
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 04:13:17 PM
You're aware of a thing called "exposure time", right?

The photo was taken with 1/320th of a second exposure time.... if you care to click the image, download it and check the exif information.  F8 aperture and ISO 640 and f-stop -1.3. 
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First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2011, 05:48:00 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 27, 2011, 05:27:10 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 04:07:36 PM
A flat disc absolutely does not look like a circle from every angle except looking at it parallel. the moment you start tilting a disc, it's two dimensional appearance starts to turn into an oblong oval and eventually a flat plane. Again, take a coin out of your pocket and look at it face first. start flipping the coin and the circle flattens eventually becoming a flat line at it's parralel. Or simply look at this picture of tops below.  Even a monkey could do this experiment with a frisbee in their hand. Apparently Tom suffers from a bad case of night blindness too if he's never see the clouds lit up on a full moon night or looked out over a field when the moon is full. I think we figured out your problem, you need better glasses.



I didn't say that a circle looks like a perfect circle from every angle. I said that a circle looks round from all angles except one parallel to the circle's surface.

My statement was accurate. Ovals are round.

All of those tops are round. Looking down at them we see curved edges.

Quote from: wryng
In a moonlit night of Nepal Himalayas, bright star Capella, the sixth brightest in the night sky, rises above the top of the world, Mount Everest. To the right is Mt. Lhutse, the world's 4th highest mountain. A Buddhist religious monument is also visible in the foreground. The brightest star is the mysterious eclipsing binary star Epsilon Aurigae. Taken by Iranian photographer Babak Tafreshi.

Quote from: Ski
You're aware of a thing called "exposure time", right?

ovals and cylinders are not circles this does not address that we see a consistent arc of the curvature of the earth from every angle of every space photograph. I AM saying that the earth looks like a nearly perfect circle from every angle, because it's a sphere (slightly fatter at the equator)The only way this is possible is with a sphere. We do not see cylinders, we do not see ovals. Show me this oval picture of the earth. We always see a circle and the only shape that this is physically possible with is a sphere FROM ALL ANGLES. See my last two posts on exposure and keep denying moonlight
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 05:49:44 PM by wryng »
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Ski

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2011, 05:51:11 PM »
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 05:32:53 PM
what evidence do you have that it is a composite image, other than its existence destroys your argument?
It looks very sharp, like most composite images do.

Quote
... just admit that we have all seen bright moonlit nights and that arguing against that is so trollish, its ridiculous.
Of course I have seen bright moonlit nights. If I was going to produce evidence of it, I'd find a photo more compelling than a lengthy exposure or composite image. Accepting nonsense as compelling just shows how desperate you are to maintain your precious world view. Well, guess what -- you're welcome to it. I don't care if you think the earth is a globe or not.

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I also love how the picture of the tops is being totally ignored. Nice job there.
It's not ignored. If I have to type "I expect to see curvature at altitude over the earth" one more time this week, I might stop typing. That you are not bright enough to figure out why one might expect to see curvature over a disc (or a top), then my conversation with you is likely to be for naught anyway. Good day, sir.
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Ski

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2011, 05:57:27 PM »
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 04:07:36 PM
So you are saying the entire earth cannot be seen and all we will see is a spotlight cast by the sun? How do you explain the existence of moonlight? or have you never witnessed this phenomenon before? 
...
Apparently Tom suffers from a bad case of night blindness too if he's never see the clouds lit up on a full moon night or looked out over a field when the moon is full. I think we figured out your problem, you need better glasses.
NASA apparently disagrees with you and does not expect that the non-lit portions of the earth would be visible to the observer.
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"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."
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pitdroidtech

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2011, 06:16:15 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 05:57:27 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 04:07:36 PM
So you are saying the entire earth cannot be seen and all we will see is a spotlight cast by the sun? How do you explain the existence of moonlight? or have you never witnessed this phenomenon before? 
...
Apparently Tom suffers from a bad case of night blindness too if he's never see the clouds lit up on a full moon night or looked out over a field when the moon is full. I think we figured out your problem, you need better glasses.
NASA apparently disagrees with you and does not expect that the non-lit portions of the earth would be visible to the observer.

But note the terminator, it is not sharp and clear like the edge of the Earth is.  This is one of two main problems with the "only the the lit part of the earth is visible" theory of why flat disc in space looks like a globe.  The terminator is the edge of a shadow; a shadow edge is blurry due to diffraction.  The light coming from a spotlight also diffracts.  The only way the edge of the earth can have such a clear and sharp delineation is if it's the actual edge of the earth (be it flat disc, or globe) with the sun shining on and past the edge. 

The other main problem, is that continents wrap around the edge, therefore the edge cannot be the circumference of a flat earth disc.  This photo doesn't show any clear examples of continents wrapping around the edge, but they are not hard to find.

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First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2011, 06:35:33 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 05:51:11 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 05:32:53 PM
what evidence do you have that it is a composite image, other than its existence destroys your argument?
It looks very sharp, like most composite images do.

Quote
... just admit that we have all seen bright moonlit nights and that arguing against that is so trollish, its ridiculous.
Of course I have seen bright moonlit nights. If I was going to produce evidence of it, I'd find a photo more compelling than a lengthy exposure or composite image. Accepting nonsense as compelling just shows how desperate you are to maintain your precious world view. Well, guess what -- you're welcome to it. I don't care if you think the earth is a globe or not.
Quote


http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=13&month=01&year=2009

This one's nice and blurry for you, So if all you're doing is bashing the images I provide, and you aren't denying that moonlight basks the earth in light, what sort of content are you providing for the debate here? I question your ability to be a moderate moderator.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 06:45:23 PM by wryng »
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Tom Bishop

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2011, 06:39:42 PM »
Quote
ovals and cylinders are not circles

I never said that looking at a circle from an angle looked like a circle. I said that a circle from an angle looked round.

Quote
this does not address that we see a consistent arc of the curvature of the earth from every angle of every space photograph.

Only NASA photographs. Photographs from amateur high balloons at the edge of the atmosphere shows elliptical curvature.
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2011, 06:49:39 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 05:57:27 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 04:07:36 PM
So you are saying the entire earth cannot be seen and all we will see is a spotlight cast by the sun? How do you explain the existence of moonlight? or have you never witnessed this phenomenon before? 
...
Apparently Tom suffers from a bad case of night blindness too if he's never see the clouds lit up on a full moon night or looked out over a field when the moon is full. I think we figured out your problem, you need better glasses.
NASA apparently disagrees with you and does not expect that the non-lit portions of the earth would be visible to the observer.


ISS space footage from a lower altitude, with the moon behind the camera.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

Looks like NASA is still on my side, although I love that you provide evidence from a notoriously fake conspirator to help prove your point while simultaneously condemning their credibility.
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2011, 06:56:06 PM »
http://www.tntmagazine.com/tnt-today/archive/2011/09/19/flying-over-planet-earth-in-the-international-space-station-is-a-youtube-hit.aspx

Oh, and here's the video again, if we're going to get snarky about the quality of images provided, throwing out red herrings without debating anything.
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Ski

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2011, 07:09:07 PM »
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

Oh yes, the photos where Africa is half the size of earth. Very convincing. Where are all those city lights in the picture I linked to? Wouldn't the moonlight make them more difficult to see, not easier? Globularists must be getting desperate now.
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #75 on: September 27, 2011, 07:26:45 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

Oh yes, the photos where Africa is half the size of earth. Very convincing. Where are all those city lights in the picture I linked to? Wouldn't the moonlight make them more difficult to see, not easier? Globularists must be getting desperate now.

Africa is not half the size of the earth in these images. ( Although it is a huge continent) The ISS flies at a low orbit, much lower than the shuttles did. As a matter of fact, you can go outside at night and see it with a pair of  binoculars if it's going to be in your neighborhood. Of course, then you would have to research something before debunking it. You can check the website to see when it will be flying by near you. Does the moonlight make city lights more difficult to see at your house? it doesn't at mine. They are actually brighter than the moon. That's why we invented them and all. ::)
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markjo

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #76 on: September 27, 2011, 08:03:09 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 27, 2011, 05:33:48 PM
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 04:13:17 PM
You're aware of a thing called "exposure time", right?
You are aware that the human eye is more sensitive to low light than normal cameras, right?
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Ski

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #77 on: September 27, 2011, 08:37:59 PM »
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 07:26:45 PM
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

Oh yes, the photos where Africa is half the size of earth. Very convincing. Where are all those city lights in the picture I linked to? Wouldn't the moonlight make them more difficult to see, not easier? Globularists must be getting desperate now.

Africa is not half the size of the earth in these images. ( Although it is a huge continent)
It is atleast a third of the earth according to that photoshopped job you just showed me.

Quote
Does the moonlight make city lights more difficult to see at your house? it doesn't at mine. They are actually brighter than the moon. That's why we invented them and all. ::)
It would if I were trying to see them from very far away. This is so self-evident, I'm surprised that you would attempt to defend your position other than from hubris.
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #78 on: September 27, 2011, 09:04:27 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 08:37:59 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 07:26:45 PM
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

Oh yes, the photos where Africa is half the size of earth. Very convincing. Where are all those city lights in the picture I linked to? Wouldn't the moonlight make them more difficult to see, not easier? Globularists must be getting desperate now.

Africa is not half the size of the earth in these images. ( Although it is a huge continent)
It is atleast a third of the earth according to that photoshopped job you just showed me.

Quote
Does the moonlight make city lights more difficult to see at your house? it doesn't at mine. They are actually brighter than the moon. That's why we invented them and all. ::)
It would if I were trying to see them from very far away. This is so self-evident, I'm surprised that you would attempt to defend your position other than from hubris.

seriously? the moon would drown out how bright city lights are because it's farther away? How does that work? Shine a flashlight on a street light. Does the light dissapear? Look at a city light, far off in the distance, on a moonlit night, does it get significantly less bright because the moon is shining? These aren't a few light bulbs we're talking abot, these are the collective grids of major metropolitan areas. Of course we can't see your porch light from space, but we could see it if it were the size of Chicago. These light clusters are proportionate on the ISS footage. Oh and did you care to answer how people can see the ISS with a pair of binoculars? I really want to see a diagram of your 1/3 the size of earth Africa measurement, unless of course you are pulling that figure out of your arse with no actual scale provided and just saying "Geez dat looks big!"
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wryng

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2011, 09:18:38 PM »
And another thing about these "Photoshopped" or Fake or CGI claims. If you know anything about photoshop, it's very easy to download an image and check for trademark layers or pixelations and other evidence of alteration and prove it. I have yet to see any FE'er make even the most failed attempt at doing so. Once again just calling "fake" isn't good enough for me if I say it, why should it be good enough for you. Prove it or it's just rhetoric and a cop out.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/tell-if-that-jpg-has-been-altered-with-jpegsnoop-windows/
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pitdroidtech

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Re: James May from Top Gear rides in a U-2 spy plane
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2011, 09:30:21 PM »
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 08:37:59 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 07:26:45 PM
Quote from: Ski on September 27, 2011, 07:09:07 PM
Quote from: wryng on September 27, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/5146231463/

Oh yes, the photos where Africa is half the size of earth. Very convincing. Where are all those city lights in the picture I linked to? Wouldn't the moonlight make them more difficult to see, not easier? Globularists must be getting desperate now.

Africa is not half the size of the earth in these images. ( Although it is a huge continent)
It is atleast a third of the earth according to that photoshopped job you just showed me.

Quote
Does the moonlight make city lights more difficult to see at your house? it doesn't at mine. They are actually brighter than the moon. That's why we invented them and all. ::)
It would if I were trying to see them from very far away. This is so self-evident, I'm surprised that you would attempt to defend your position other than from hubris.
The first thing to realise is that Africa is freaking HUGE.  Yes, it probably does take up a third of the visual area tghe globe when looking at it straight on.




The second thing to realise is that the camera used in this image has a fair degree of distortion, enough to make the curvature flatter at the top than at the sides of the view.  I tried to overlay a circle over the curvature and could not, regardless of the size I made the circle. So it's impossible to guage from this photo how big the circle would need to be to represent the rest of teh unseen part of the Earth.



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First human spacewalker, Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov: “Lifting my head I could see the curvature of the Earth's horizon. ’So the world really is round,’ I said softly to myself, as if the words came from somewhere deep in my soul. "
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