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A Few Problems

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Hessy

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A Few Problems
« on: August 06, 2011, 03:27:49 PM »
Hey.  So the computer that I built for my uncle has been nothing but trouble the past few weeks.  He lives a few hours away, and I'm gonna see him in about a week.  I need to diagnose the problems as soon as I can so I can order any necessary parts and fix it when I see him.

There have been a few problems... the video feed randomly cuts out every now and then.  Occasionally, the computer won't POST and instead displays an error message (I forget exactly what it was).  This problem seemed to be fixed (albeit temporarily) by reseating the RAM modules.  Then, just recently, when he tried to boot up his PC, it wouldn't POST, and all that was displayed on the monitor was a thin, blinking white line in the upper-left corner of his screen.

No adjustments have been made in the BIOS (the CMOS has been cleared multiple times).  The RAM is underclocked to 1333MHz.


Specs are as follow:


Raidmax Azetc M-ATX Case

MSI 870A-G55 AM3 motherboard

EVGA GTX470 SuperClocked
- I installed a Zalman VF3000F after-market cooler on it, which is hooked up directly to the power supply

HEC X-Power Pro 600W Power Supply

AMD Phenom II X2 555 3.2GHz CPU

Crucial RealSSD C300 (Win7)

Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB 7200RPM SATA III HDD

G.Skill Ripjaws 4gb (2x2) DDR3 1600MHz (running at 1333MHz)


It's really quite the clusterfuck.  I feel horrible about it, too, since he trusted me to build him a computer (even though he knew I'd make mistakes).  Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I feel personally responsible for all the problems he's having.

UPDATE: He doesn't get the weird line thing any more.  Instead, it usually refuses to POST.  However, he was just able to get it through BIOS to Windows boot-up, where Windows complained about errors and something about Windows conflicting with something else... I'm asking for screenshots and will post them as I get them.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 03:42:20 PM by Hessy »
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Thork

Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2011, 04:27:19 PM »
My suspicion is the RAM. Is this your RAM?
http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=222

The fact your motherboard isn't on the list when other models of MSI with similar product codes are, would worry me.

It may explain not passing the post.
You can use this to eliminate RAM as a cause.

If its not the ram it'll be some douchey driver or something, but whatever it is, it is unlikely to be expensive. The rest of the hardware seems fine.

Your power supply looks about right but you can check yourself here.
I think you have almost 200W capacity over so no probs.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 04:31:30 PM by Thork »
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sirTheMore

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 04:46:00 PM »
Quote from: Hessy on August 06, 2011, 03:27:49 PM
Hey.  So the computer that I built for my uncle has been nothing but trouble the past few weeks.  He lives a few hours away, and I'm gonna see him in about a week.  I need to diagnose the problems as soon as I can so I can order any necessary parts and fix it when I see him.

There have been a few problems... the video feed randomly cuts out every now and then.  Occasionally, the computer won't POST and instead displays an error message (I forget exactly what it was).  This problem seemed to be fixed (albeit temporarily) by reseating the RAM modules.  Then, just recently, when he tried to boot up his PC, it wouldn't POST, and all that was displayed on the monitor was a thin, blinking white line in the upper-left corner of his screen.

No adjustments have been made in the BIOS (the CMOS has been cleared multiple times).  The RAM is underclocked to 1333MHz.


Specs are as follow:


Raidmax Azetc M-ATX Case

MSI 870A-G55 AM3 motherboard

EVGA GTX470 SuperClocked
- I installed a Zalman VF3000F after-market cooler on it, which is hooked up directly to the power supply

HEC X-Power Pro 600W Power Supply

AMD Phenom II X2 555 3.2GHz CPU

Crucial RealSSD C300 (Win7)

Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB 7200RPM SATA III HDD

G.Skill Ripjaws 4gb (2x2) DDR3 1600MHz (running at 1333MHz)


It's really quite the clusterfuck.  I feel horrible about it, too, since he trusted me to build him a computer (even though he knew I'd make mistakes).  Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I feel personally responsible for all the problems he's having.

UPDATE: He doesn't get the weird line thing any more.  Instead, it usually refuses to POST.  However, he was just able to get it through BIOS to Windows boot-up, where Windows complained about errors and something about Windows conflicting with something else... I'm asking for screenshots and will post them as I get them.
Is it a Yeemote Leloong?  That is most certainly the problem my most dear comrade!
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General Disarray

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2011, 04:52:15 PM »
Flash the BIOS to the most recent version for his board, run memtest, update any drivers, run a chkdsk /r, you could try to repair the Windows installation. That's all I've got without knowing what the errors are.
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Lorddave

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2011, 05:33:03 PM »
If he has multiple RAM modules then take all but one out and swap between them until you get it working or it fails on all 4.
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cmdshft

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2011, 05:33:41 PM »
Get a MacPro and dualboot Windows with OS X.
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Theodolite

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2011, 05:49:23 PM »
The first thing that jumps out at me is the power supply and gpu.  Power supplies can only supply so many amps per "rail"

Im guessing that your gpu has a direct +12V 4 prong power supply connection? 

I believe your power supply has 2 12v rails. +12V1@30A, +12V2@22A,

Make sure the gpu has one to itself, and run everything else of the 30a.  I will check and see if the gpu can even run off of 22A



A 12V undervoltage would definitely cause the problems you are describing
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Theodolite

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 06:03:47 PM »
I looked into it a bit more, I could not find the exact requirements of your card, but the minimum supported PSU is 550W.  The PSU you are using is considered to be a very low quality 600W, so it is very likely that your problems are based on the 12V rails being overloaded.

If it were me, I would bring a larger PSU (of decent quality) and try swap it.
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General Disarray

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 06:28:06 PM »
Most calculators generally give you the worst case scenario, the amount of power you would consume when every component was under full load. a power supply with low capacity shouldn't prevent you from booting. Bad quality could.

If you can get into windows, event viewer is also a good place to check to find out what the problem is.
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Hessy

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 08:39:10 PM »
On other forums, the general consensus is that the problem lies in my PSU.  I skimped out on it and bought a shitty HEC (which is supposedly very notorious for failure and poor quality).  I ordered an $85 Seasonic 620 watt (top of the line) to replace it to see if the problems stop... I've also got 8gb of brand new RAM to try in it as well as my own graphics card. 

I'll update in a week when I try everything out.

By the way, cmdshft, Mac's are for fags. 

Excuse me, rich fags.
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Theodolite

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 08:41:53 PM »
Quote from: Hessy on August 06, 2011, 08:39:10 PM
On other forums, the general consensus is that the problem lies in my PSU.  I skimped out on it and bought a shitty HEC (which is supposedly very notorious for failure and poor quality).  I ordered an $85 Seasonic 620 watt (top of the line) to replace it to see if the problems stop... I've also got 8gb of brand new RAM to try in it as well as my own graphics card. 

I'll update in a week when I try everything out.

By the way, cmdshft, Mac's are for fags. 

Excuse me, rich fags.

If you are looking to use it in the future, I would go with at least an 850W

I used to build high end PC's as a hobby.  My current favorite for medium power PC's is the http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=corsair+850w&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6106436340731799806&sa=X&ei=2Ak-Tq30NuPUiAKYjq3DBg&ved=0CDQQ8gIwAg

As for the reason it was crashing you, gpu's take a lot of power when they first power up, lots of processing going on, kind of like loading an OS


Oh, and dont be calling Mac users fags.  There are lots of smart fags too, who use PCs
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 08:57:15 PM by Theodolite »
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Hessy

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 01:25:37 PM »
So.  My uncle ended up ordering a Corsair GS700 700 watt, but before installing it, opened up the PC to take pictures of the wiring.  He found out that the main motherboard power connector (24-pin) was messed up; the cord coming from the HEC PSU is a 20+4, and the +4 cord wasn't in the socket.  As soon as he popped it in and booted up, it worked fine.

However, it only took a few hours for it to become loose again and start causing problems.  Though it didn't come out, it appeared to come loose enough to mess up POSTing, etc.  As soon as I pushed it in again, the PC worked fine.

The question is whether or not this is the fault of the PSU or the Motherboard.  Poor sockets, or poor cord design?
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Lorddave

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2011, 01:33:21 PM »
Quote from: Hessy on August 12, 2011, 01:25:37 PM
So.  My uncle ended up ordering a Corsair GS700 700 watt, but before installing it, opened up the PC to take pictures of the wiring.  He found out that the main motherboard power connector (24-pin) was messed up; the cord coming from the HEC PSU is a 20+4, and the +4 cord wasn't in the socket.  As soon as he popped it in and booted up, it worked fine.

However, it only took a few hours for it to become loose again and start causing problems.  Though it didn't come out, it appeared to come loose enough to mess up POSTing, etc.  As soon as I pushed it in again, the PC worked fine.

The question is whether or not this is the fault of the PSU or the Motherboard.  Poor sockets, or poor cord design?

Sounds like the clip is broken on it.  Just wrap it in tape and it'll be fine.
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Skeleton

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 02:01:15 PM »
The problem: you built the computer. EVERYONE (and Im not exaggerating here) I know who has built their own computer or done so for someone else ends up with a dodgy machine that constantly throws out errors and can only be operated by many workarounds. I got all my computers from shops. I dont get these problems.
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Quote from: Thork on August 17, 2011, 08:08:20 AM
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Thork

Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 02:13:27 PM »
Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 02:01:15 PM
The problem: you built the computer. EVERYONE (and Im not exaggerating here) I know who has built their own computer or done so for someone else ends up with a dodgy machine that constantly throws out errors and can only be operated by many workarounds. I got all my computers from shops. I dont get these problems.
My last 4 computers were all home built. Only the shuttle PC gave me problems and those problems were heating related due to heat pipes in small form factor PCs being a new technology all those years ago.
I put all the parts in a larger case and never had another problem.

I will add though that before my first PC, I didn't just buy a bunch of parts. I went to evening classes over the course of a few weeks. Purely because the council was offering adult education for free to anyone local and I thought why not?
The average IQ of my classmates meant many should be in cages, but I got given a bunch of parts and was told to go sit by myself, throwing PCs together whilst he explained "this is the processor, it is the "brains" of the computer" etc.
Also helping the monkeys get their PCs working after they push together any sockets that will fit, was a good base in trouble shooting. I acquired many books on the subject subsequently.

Long story short. You can built your own PC, its very rewarding, you get exactly what you want and it is better than a shop one. But you weren't born knowing how to do so and its expensive if you f it up.

 (shop ones always try to stiff you with low RPM hard drives, high latency RAM, a cut down graphics card etc, so the numbers sound good ... 4GB of RAM or 320GB HD or G-Force 'X' series but the performance is woeful). They want headline parts for cheap because most people haven't got a clue.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 02:22:59 PM by Thork »
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Vindictus

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 02:22:39 PM »
Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 02:01:15 PM
The problem: you built the computer. EVERYONE (and Im not exaggerating here) I know who has built their own computer or done so for someone else ends up with a dodgy machine that constantly throws out errors and can only be operated by many workarounds. I got all my computers from shops. I dont get these problems.

Then everyone you know is an idiot. Building your own computer is not rocket science. Buying them from a shop is just paying someone to do what you could easily do yourself.
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Skeleton

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM »
Maybe everyone I know is an idiot then. I speak only from experience. Some of the people I know who built their computers are people who work in university IT departments, so should know what they are doing. I notice even Thork has admitted a computer he built had problems. I dont believe his others were as trouble free as he makes out, simply because he tends to lie a lot, and doesnt like me so will autodisagree with me on any subject. The problem is the more someone who "knows how to build a computer" learns about it, the more complicated the computer they build will be, increasing the probability of it not working right.
The supposedly crap performance of store bought computers is still vastly superior to that of a computer that you cant use fully because its components kick each other when youre not looking or refuse to play ball with the operating system.
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Quote from: Thork on August 17, 2011, 08:08:20 AM
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Lorddave

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2011, 03:25:53 PM »
Here's the thing about store purchased vs home built:
Store purchased do have less problems only because they've gotten the systems down to a routine.  When they build it they already know what, if any problems will arise and how to fix them.

However, anyone who builds a machine that constantly throws out errors probably has issues like they didn't correctly set some kind of bios setting or their copy of windows was hacked or something.  You'd have to give me examples before I could say anything more.
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Quote from: Lorddave on November 10, 2020, 12:20:32 PM
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Thork

Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2011, 03:37:14 PM »
Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
I notice even Thork has admitted a computer he built had problems. I dont believe his others were as trouble free as he makes out,
Why not? I built 4 PCs, one was a sff when they first came out. It had heat issues. All the rest have run fine.

Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
simply because he tends to lie a lot,
lurk moar

Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
and doesnt like me [citation needed]

Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
so will autodisagree with me on any subject.
I am a flat earther. You are not. It is likely we will disagree in the upper fora, because I know what shape earth is and you only think you do.

Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
The problem is the more someone who "knows how to build a computer" learns about it, the more complicated the computer they build will be, increasing the probability of it not working right.
Nope, I build a PC for my requirements. I would be confident to overclock my components and use water cooling and run raid configs and SLI/crossfire etc, but I don't need any of it. So I keep $1000 and build what I need.

Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
The supposedly crap performance of store bought computers is still vastly superior to that of a computer that you cant use fully because its components kick each other when youre not looking or refuse to play ball with the operating system.
This has not happened to me. Even that shuttle worked awesome for about a month, but it sucked in dust which would block the flow over the heat pipes. I couldn't be bothered to keep taking it to bits to clean as it was fiddly and brimming with parts, so I just got a new case.
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General Disarray

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2011, 03:42:11 PM »
Yeah, your friends are retarded, dude. Building a computer is relatively easy if you have worked with them a decent amount before. I didn't have a single problem with this setup that wasn't the fault of bad hardware. If you have the desire to build your own system, it is usually because you know enough about computers to want better stuff than you will find in a prebuilt system, which also means you probably know enough to build it yourself, so it should work out.
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Quote from: Thork on April 02, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
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Thork

Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2011, 03:46:38 PM »
Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
and doesnt like me so will autodisagree with me on any subject.
I do dislike general disarray, but I agree with him ITT. He is my least favourite poster. He is boring and deserves cancer.

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General Disarray

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2011, 03:49:56 PM »
Quote from: Thork on August 12, 2011, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: Skeleton on August 12, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
and doesnt like me so will autodisagree with me on any subject.
I do dislike general disarray, but I agree with him ITT. He is my least favourite poster. He is boring and deserves cancer.

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Quote from: Thork on April 02, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
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Theodolite

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2011, 06:46:15 PM »
I used to build PCs for people as a hobby, it takes some time to learn exactly which parts work well with each other.

The place most novices go wrong is skimping on the power supply.  You are much better served skimping on the CPU over anything else.

Once you understand memory timings, voltage settings, how the north bridge on a particular chipset works exactly, you have half the problem beat.

Just remember, clean power, quality ram/chipset, overbuilt cooling (including airflow within the case), and you are off to a great start.

Custom liquid cooling systems work great, as long as you dont forget to keep the actual mobo cool with air (voltage regulator among other things produce a lot of heat)
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Skeleton

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2011, 03:40:17 AM »
Quote from: General Disarray on August 12, 2011, 03:42:11 PM
I didn't have a single problem with this setup that wasn't the fault of bad hardware.

You back up my argument by admitting you had problems with a computer you built yourself. Whether its caused by hardware, software or whatever, you had problems.
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Quote from: Thork on August 17, 2011, 08:08:20 AM
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berny_74

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2011, 04:25:01 PM »
Quote from: Theodolite on August 12, 2011, 06:46:15 PM
I used to build PCs for people as a hobby, it takes some time to learn exactly which parts work well with each other.

Great - when I have 1500 to sink into another PC I'll send you a message.

Berny
Sinking 1200 into an Ebike right now
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General Disarray

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2011, 05:05:36 PM »
It just comes down to what you are willing to sacrifice. You can either give up reliability (by buying your own parts), or give up performance (by buying a pre-built system).
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Quote from: Thork on April 02, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
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Theodolite

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2011, 08:01:19 PM »
Quote from: General Disarray on August 14, 2011, 05:05:36 PM
It just comes down to what you are willing to sacrifice. You can either give up reliability (by buying your own parts), or give up performance (by buying a pre-built system).
My conclusion, if you are an expert at building PCs.

You can either buy a pre made PC where parts selection is more political than technical (they dont change suppliers based on who has the best parts that month)

Whenever I build a PC, I go to forums like extremeoverclocking.com, and use the expertise of the community to choose which parts work best together that week.  If you take the time to learn how and why each part is best when used in unison with the others, you end up with a faster, cooler, more reliable PC then the stores sell.

However, if you merely stick to your own skills, you can easily make a mistake and end up with a system that is inferior to what the stores sell.

When I followed their advice closely, I was able to make PCs that were comparible to Alienware (before dell bought it) for performance and reliability.
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Parsifal

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2011, 04:31:36 AM »
Quote from: Theodolite on August 14, 2011, 08:01:19 PM
You can either buy a pre made PC where parts selection is more political than technical (they dont change suppliers based on who has the best parts that month)

You can either write sensible English.
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Hessy

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2011, 05:19:08 PM »
Well, I installed a Corsair GS700.  A few problems are gone, but now I'm having new ones...

Basically, whenever I reconfigure my RAM (as in change which stick are in which DIMM slots) and clear my CMOS, the computer will POST and boot into Windows (so stably, in fact, that I can run stress tests and game without a hitch).  But as soon as I shut it back down, I'm unable to even POST until I change around my RAM again.

I'm messing around with 2 sticks of 2gb 1600MHz (running at 1333MHz) Ripjaws and 2 sticks of  4gb 1333MHz.  I have a hard time believing that they're all dysfunctional.

Any thoughts?  I'm absolutely stumped.  Temperatures are all normal (CPU maxes at 60C in Prime95, GPU runs around 40C in Crysis 2, ambient temps are just a few above room temp).

And again, all settings are stock, since the BIOS gets reset every time I change around the RAM.

Oh, and I've resat the CPU twice (as other sites have advised me to do), as well as tried a different one.  Which seems to narrow it down to the graphics card (?) or the motherboard.

Finally, it turns out that obscure error that the computer was having (that I never wrote down) turned out to be a Hyper Transport Sync Flood Error, which seems to be consistent with the white lines appearing on the screen earlier.
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Theodolite

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Re: A Few Problems
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2011, 06:02:38 PM »
Quote from: Parsifal on August 15, 2011, 04:31:36 AM
Quote from: Theodolite on August 14, 2011, 08:01:19 PM
You can either buy a pre made PC where parts selection is more political than technical (they dont change suppliers based on who has the best parts that month) or take the time to learn which parts are the best/most cost effective

You can either write sensible English.

Thanks, I never proof posts in forums
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