FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE

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momentia

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #90 on: August 26, 2011, 06:58:44 PM »
Please do not take it in such an arrogant manner.

I told you Google Earth is a video game because it's obviously a lot of 3D Api and data encoding and compression algorithms. As any encoding algorithm drops off information, Google Earth is not to be trusted regarding any accurate cosmological fact.

Also, you seem to improperly add your vectors, I do not see why the impact of your theoretical calculation should deny the possibility of a Flat Earth.

And finally, we do not know if the Flat Earth is perfect disc or slightly curved due to UA acceleration and mass pressure.

On this topic it is possible that the flat earth follows a Ferguson shape (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=50237.0)

Obviously Google earth encodes data, its a map of the earth, and obviously it will be compressed some because it has a huge amount of data. However, it still shows features accurately.

cosmological fact? What?

improperly added vectors where?


And finally, we do not know if the Flat Earth is perfect disc or slightly curved due to UA acceleration and mass pressure.
Continue this topic in your other thread.

You do not take in account the principles of conservation of energy which is transfered to the airplane.

As such, when loosing altitude, the AP gains speed, still most electronic devices show no change in speed, because it's not relative speed, but absolute speed regarding the stationnary universe. This is why a correction must be used with the pressure coefficient formula Cp = dP/(ρ v2 /2) .

However, you stayed strangely quiet on the fact that Google Earth is a video game. Do you trust computer softwares that much?

They can have many flaws too...

Blah blah blah. I based my calculations on the range of the plane. Talk all you want, it won't move the plane the extra distance required.

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Puttah

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2011, 07:32:59 PM »
What exactly do you mean by the impossibility of squaring the circle?
Ask Momentia, he will explain that to you. He is the expert, I am the idiot.
Thanks, as your language is rather odd. What you said actually means that there is no way to construct a square of the same area as a given circle using a straightedge and a compass.
That's what I thought he meant, which doesn't have any connection to the discussion at hand. I'm guessing he's just another layman that once heard the term "squaring the circle", completely avoided the explanation as to what it means and then made up a best-guess explanation in your head.

To add onto what momentia said, the problem of squaring the circle dates back to the Ancient Greeks, and try as they might to project the area of a circle onto a square with only the use of a ruler and compass, they never managed to do it. Little did they know was that it could not be done because they would need one of the sides of the square to be proportional to the square root of pi, which is a transcendental number and thus, long story short, an impossibility.

This has been brought to you by yet another RE'er trying to teach the FE'ers a thing or two, free of charge! Granted you probably stopped reading after the second line of my post.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #92 on: August 26, 2011, 07:40:37 PM »
I based my calculations on the range of the plane. Talk all you want, it won't move the plane the extra distance required.

Of what range are you talking about ?

Did you ever measure the earth ?
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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momentia

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #93 on: August 27, 2011, 05:39:59 PM »
I based my calculations on the range of the plane. Talk all you want, it won't move the plane the extra distance required.

Of what range are you talking about ?

Did you ever measure the earth ?

Plane range. (How far the plane can go without refueling)
I use the standard FE FAQ map to calculate FE distances, and the standard RE model to calculate RE distances

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trig

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2011, 06:13:43 PM »
Please do not take it in such an arrogant manner.

I told you Google Earth is a video game because it's obviously a lot of 3D Api and data encoding and compression algorithms. As any encoding algorithm drops off information, Google Earth is not to be trusted regarding any accurate cosmological fact.

Also, you seem to improperly add your vectors, I do not see why the impact of your theoretical calculation should deny the possibility of a Flat Earth.

And finally, we do not know if the Flat Earth is perfect disc or slightly curved due to UA acceleration and mass pressure.

On this topic it is possible that the flat earth follows a Ferguson shape (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=50237.0)
Now I know you are either trolling or delusional, just like the one who painted the Earth just like a casino roulette.

Don't you think that people will sense how their houses are not level? A relative bought an apartment that is about one degree off-tilt and everyone who has entered it has felt the slope. She has been effectively dead for some 5 years and the apartment has been impossible to sell. I, myself, would not buy it at any price. And your religious nut, who explains his map only in terms of the Bible, expect mexicans to live about 10 degrees off level? Have you mounted a bike on a 10 degree slope? You feel it. There is no question about it.

This is my final response to you, since the possibility of you being just a troll has become almost a certainty. I come to this place to show people a tiny bit of science in action, (not even to discuss the shape of the Earth) but arguing against religious nuts is not worth my time.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2011, 06:21:38 PM »
The shape of the Orlando Ferguson map is a tool for me to open your mind to new perspectives,

but you seem to refuse them, you are stuck on a definition of a spherical earth.

If you had your own experiments, you would see that I am not telling you lies. Earth is flat.
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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momentia

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2011, 06:37:56 PM »
The shape of the Orlando Ferguson map is a tool for me to open your mind to new perspectives,

but you seem to refuse them, you are stuck on a definition of a spherical earth.

If you had your own experiments, you would see that I am not telling you lies. Earth is flat.

Since UA is directed upwards, and I have seen water in the ocean at around the 45-46th northern parallel, Australia should be underwater since it is lower. Australia is not underwater. Thus the earth does not take this shape.

By the way, the Orlando Ferguson map is not flat.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2011, 05:40:46 AM »
Since UA is directed upwards, and I have seen water in the ocean at around the 45-46th northern parallel, Australia should be underwater since it is lower. Australia is not underwater. Thus the earth does not take this shape.
What?
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2011, 10:43:52 AM »
There is no "up" in the UA.

It is vectorized, but there is no such thing as a "up".
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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markjo

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2011, 12:49:30 PM »
Sure there is.  Up is the direction that the UA is pushing the FE.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #100 on: August 30, 2011, 12:58:46 PM »
There is no notion of direction if there is no reference frame.

As such, the direction "up" is confusing if we consider referential frames where the direction would point in a seemingly other direction.

"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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momentia

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #101 on: August 30, 2011, 02:39:41 PM »
There is no notion of direction if there is no reference frame.

As such, the direction "up" is confusing if we consider referential frames where the direction would point in a seemingly other direction.
The earth is a reference frame. Up is as much a direction as north, south, east or west.
It is the direction of the UA vector.

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Puttah

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #102 on: August 30, 2011, 06:23:44 PM »
There is no "up" in the UA.

It is vectorized, but there is no such thing as a "up".
Nonsense. You just said it yourself, it is vectorized, so we have defined up to be in the direction of the UA...
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #103 on: August 30, 2011, 10:12:41 PM »
There is no "up" in vectorized geometry.

There is an angle, and a distance from the origin. But there is no up.

Otherwise, show me how you add "up" with the vector AC = (-1; 5; 5) relatively to the origin.
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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whatnewguy

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #104 on: August 31, 2011, 12:07:09 AM »
There is no "up" in vectorized geometry.

There is an angle, and a distance from the origin. But there is no up.

Otherwise, show me how you add "up" with the vector AC = (-1; 5; 5) relatively to the origin.

Congratulations on your pedantic argument.  Is it really that hard to read posts and understand what this word intends from the context?

"Up" is generally accepted to be the direction perpendicular to Earth's surface at a particular location, and that is the sense in which it is being used here.  More specifically, it is the direction opposite the acceleration that we feel towards Earth.  If you wish to formalize the notion of "up" in a standard 3-dimensional Cartesian coordinate system, you can just think of it as a unit vector pointing parallel to the z-axis (where the x and y axes are horizontal, or found within the plane of the ground).

In the specific context of this thread, up is defined as the direction in which UA is proposed to be accelerating the Earth.  Because you propose that gravity is nonexistent in your models, UA necessarily provides the acceleration towards the Earth that we feel.  The Ferguson model necessarily fails because the water on the planet would see a component of this acceleration directed towards the low point in the bowl, hence momentia's argument that some parts of the world would be submerged on that model.

If Universal Acceleration is responsible for what we conventionally call gravity, then the Earth must be flat, and exist on a plane perpendicular to the direction in which UA is accelerating it.  If you wish to hypothesize that the Earth takes on a more exotic shape such as that in the Ferguson model, you must reject UA and either construct a model in which gravity explains our tendency to accelerate towards Earth or construct a model using a different explanation entirely.

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Puttah

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #105 on: August 31, 2011, 01:23:50 AM »
There is no "up" in vectorized geometry.
whatnewguy has already beaten me to it. Basically, as he says, up is usually associated with the z-axis. It can also be described as being orthogonal to the cardinal directions. East x North (x stands for the cross product) would be the up vector you're looking for.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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Christian

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #106 on: August 31, 2011, 02:58:17 AM »
There is no "up" in vectorized geometry.

There is an angle, and a distance from the origin. But there is no up.

Otherwise, show me how you add "up" with the vector AC = (-1; 5; 5) relatively to the origin.


"The world is flat. But making it public means terrible consequences." 2002. Former NASA chief Sean O'Keefe

Can you actually show to any reference on this statement. I find it hard to believe that a former chief of NASA has made this statement. Without proof, Im inclined to believe that its untrue.

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Puttah

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #107 on: August 31, 2011, 06:23:39 AM »
Googling: "Sean O'Keefe flat earth" the only relevant hits were Agnostic's quote.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #108 on: August 31, 2011, 08:54:11 AM »
"The world is flat. But making it public means terrible consequences." 2002. Former NASA chief Sean O'Keefe

It is a sentence from him that only a few people now. Everyone thought it was a joke...
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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Harutsedo

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #109 on: August 31, 2011, 08:55:07 AM »
"The world is flat. But making it public means terrible consequences." 2002. Former NASA chief Sean O'Keefe

It is a sentence from him that only a few people now. Everyone thought it was a joke...

Then source it.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #110 on: August 31, 2011, 08:56:20 AM »
It is already sourced. It's from Sean O'Keefe.
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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Harutsedo

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2011, 09:09:51 AM »
It is already sourced. It's from Sean O'Keefe.

"I lied when I said the Earth is flat. It's actually round. I just like messing with the FES." --Sean O'Keefe. (2003)

Oh. Well, I guess that settles that.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 09:11:40 AM by Harutsedo »
Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #112 on: August 31, 2011, 09:18:46 AM »
I changed my sig to avoid any useless debate on the NASA topic.
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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Puttah

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2011, 10:36:17 AM »
I changed my sig to avoid getting caught out for misquoting
fix'd
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #114 on: August 31, 2011, 10:40:34 AM »
In fact not really, it is better if we can focus on more than the NASA conspiracy stuff. This sig was old.
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman

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Harutsedo

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #115 on: August 31, 2011, 10:52:58 AM »
In fact not really, it is better if we can focus on more than the NASA conspiracy stuff. This sig was old.

You've been on this site for slightly over a week. It wasn't old. And it was a misquote.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
If you don't know, whenever you talk about it you're invoking the supernatural
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Unknown != Magic.

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Puttah

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #116 on: August 31, 2011, 11:12:02 AM »
I'm sorry, but Thomas Friedman's editions are metaphorically speaking, the way you've presented it is a cunning misrepresentation of the man.
And the other quote, well, it's over a century old...
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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Trev

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #117 on: August 31, 2011, 08:29:54 PM »
Friedman's book "The World is Flat" is about the effects of globalization. Before you google "flat earth" and cut/paste people's words out of context, do some research.

You guys are masters at derailing, so here it is again:
1) Is the distance travelled by the plane greater in the FE model?
2) If yes, would it be possible to travel the FE distance via plane?

I would like answers to both of these questions, and please do not comment on ANY other aspect of this post.

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Christian

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2011, 12:59:45 AM »

I just wanted to check if you could actually back up your NASA sig, as a less critical person might fall for it. Lot of untrue, and "out of context", quotes going around. As you cant source it, I feel its appropriate that you removed it. Even if it was replaced with an out of context quote.....

ANYWHO, the real issue is:

1) Is the distance travelled by the plane greater in the FE model?
2) If yes, would it be possible to travel the FE distance via plane?


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Agnostic

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Re: FLIGHT PATHS DISPROVE FE
« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2011, 06:03:50 AM »
1) Is the distance travelled by the plane greater in the FE model?

All the flights performed in FE or RE take the same time. FE theory is coherent with Flight Paths.

2) If yes, would it be possible to travel the FE distance via plane?

If you circle, you can.
"The earth is flat indeed. Saying it is a sphere was the worst mistake of our modern science." 1893. Pr. Orlando Ferguson, Academy of Science

"The world is flat." 2005. Thomas Friedman