Rowbotham's style of logic

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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2011, 03:04:54 PM »
The Bedford Level experiments are inconclusive.

Only if you imagine the existence of ridiculous chance mirages which appear every time the experiment is performed and adjust themselves in accordance to the distance the observer is looking across, to fool them into believing that they are living on a flat earth.

Just like a imagine that hundreds of thousands of weather balloons are strung up over a flat earth so my GPS works.

Maybe many thousands of high altitude balloons would be necessary for line of sight communication if the earth was a globe, but you should recall that the earth is flat.


even if it was only a few hundred, on a clear day why can no one observe such balloons?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2011, 03:08:47 PM »
even if it was only a few hundred, on a clear day why can no one observe such balloons?

They are too far away.

Fill up a child's party balloon with helium and let is float upwards into the sky. After a point it will become too small to see and/or obscured by the earth's atmosphere.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 03:11:36 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2011, 03:09:13 PM »
Rowbotham did not observe a concave or a convex earth. His results are conclusive.

His results are conclusive. His results disagree with the results of similar experiments. The results of these experiments together, is inconclusive.
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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2011, 03:15:30 PM »
even if it was only a few hundred, on a clear day why can no one observe such balloons?

They are too far away.

Fill up a child's party balloon with helium and let is float upwards into the sky. After a point it will become too small to see and/or obscured by the earth's atmosphere.

1) the balloons pops
2) your telling me that this cant see a weather balloon but can see other planets.
http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes-with-Equatorial-Mounts/Orion-AstroView-90mm-Equatorial-Refractor-Telescope/pc/1/c/10/sc/335/p/9024.uts
or one of these
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/wa/telescopes-keck-0109-de.jpg

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2011, 03:27:51 PM »
Rowbotham did not observe a concave or a convex earth. His results are conclusive.

His results are conclusive. His results disagree with the results of similar experiments. The results of these experiments together, is inconclusive.

Source?

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1) the balloons pops

You think that when you watch a helium balloon disappear from sight, you stop seeing it because it pops?  ???

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2) your telling me that this cant see a weather balloon but can see other planets.
http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes-with-Equatorial-Mounts/Orion-AstroView-90mm-Equatorial-Refractor-Telescope/pc/1/c/10/sc/335/p/9024.uts
or one of these
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/wa/telescopes-keck-0109-de.jpg

People use telescopes at night. While planets are brightly lit, balloons don't have light sources. They would be entirely black against the sky if you tried to look for one with a telescope, assuming that a telescope would be powerful enough to be able to see it at all.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 03:30:10 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2011, 03:52:25 PM »



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1) the balloons pops

You think that when you watch a helium balloon disappear from sight, you stop seeing it because it pops?  ???

Quote
2) your telling me that this cant see a weather balloon but can see other planets.
http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes/Refractor-Telescopes-with-Equatorial-Mounts/Orion-AstroView-90mm-Equatorial-Refractor-Telescope/pc/1/c/10/sc/335/p/9024.uts
or one of these
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cm/popularmechanics/images/wa/telescopes-keck-0109-de.jpg

People use telescopes at night. While planets are brightly lit, balloons don't have light sources. They would be entirely black against the sky if you tried to look for one with a telescope, assuming that a telescope would be powerful enough to be able to see it at all.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ffc/?n=balloon2004

as for a normal balloon, a handy pair of binoculars will do the trick.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2011, 04:29:51 PM »
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Someone on this forum got results consistent with RET.

Was he also claiming to be an astronaut?

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Morrow got results consistent with concavity. http://books.google.com/books?id=ilFGAAAAYAAJ&q=isbn:0879910267&dq=isbn:0879910267&hl=en&ei=0AUmTqKqFOXb0QG53ZnUCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA

He didn't perform the belford level test.

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Oldham, with a sphere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Yule_Oldham

Oldham is also mentioned in the Bedford Level page:

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In 1901 Henry Yule Oldham, a geography reader at King's College, Cambridge, conducted the definitive experiment described in "Method", above.[3][10]

The planists, however, were not yet defeated: On 11 May 1904 Lady Elizabeth Anne Blount hired a commercial photographer to use a telephoto lens camera to take a picture from Welney of a large white sheet she had placed, touching the surface of the river, at Rowbotham's original position six miles away. The photographer, Edgar Clifton from Dallmeyer's studio, mounted his camera two feet above the water at Welney and was surprised to be able to obtain a picture of the target, which should have been invisible to him given the low mounting point of the camera. Lady Blount published the pictures far and wide and for those who do not accept the explanation of Superior Mirage due to refraction, these have not been explained.[11]

Looks like the planists prevailed in the end.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 04:32:52 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2011, 04:38:33 PM »
Was he also claiming to be an astronaut?

No... but he has pictures... inb4 Death Star
At point do you consider people to have told the truth? If you want to play that game, then Rowbotham lied about his experiment.

He didn't perform the belford level test.

Fine. He didn't do it exactly like Rowbotham. But you do need to explain how he got his results.

Looks like the planists prevailed in the end.

Nope. If anything, this should show you how inconclusive the results are! One person got one thing (never explained in FET), one got another (never explained in RET).
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2011, 04:59:34 PM »
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ffc/?n=balloon2004

as for a normal balloon, a handy pair of binoculars will do the trick.

The balloons are likely mistaken for stars or satellites. They are just a dim little dot in the night sky. They're probably rarely lit up at all.

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No... but he has pictures... inb4 Death Star
At point do you consider people to have told the truth? If you want to play that game, then Rowbotham lied about his experiment.

I consider people to have told the truth when I can verify the results for my own self. I have verified Rowbotham's claims. Ergo, I know that he was telling the truth.

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Fine. He didn't do it exactly like Rowbotham. But you do need to explain how he got his results.

Well, as I recall, one of the concave-earther's main experiments was putting pieces of wood together and comparing it to the horizon:



Lining up pieces of wood are not exactly guaranteed to be as straight as a ray of light.

Nonetheless, Rowbotham's Bedford Canal Experiment does not discount the possibility of concavity. Looking across a canal and seeing bodies beyond RET tolerances only discounts the possibility of convexity. It's possible that the Bedford Canal is slightly concave. The bodies in the experiment would still be seen in the same manner on a concave earth. It's not a Flat Earth experiment. It's a Earth Not a Globe experiment.

Rowbotham provides a Flat Earth model to explain his observations. There might be a concave earth model which also explains the observations. Remember, the book is called Earth Not a Globe, not The Earth is Flat.

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Nope. If anything, this should show you how inconclusive the results are! One person got one thing (never explained in FET), one got another (never explained in RET).

It does not come as a surprise that some people would attempt to rebut Rowbotham's work with hoaxed experiments. As we've seen on these forums, RE'ers will go to great lengths to keep their childhood beliefs and fantasies alive.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 06:44:36 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Vindictus

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2011, 05:42:01 PM »

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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2011, 06:45:06 PM »
Tom, your joking right? do you not see the string hanging below it in all 4 photos. The reason why it was lit was due to its altitude, it was still in the sunlight.

also, for your viewing pleasure: http://www.ufonv.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1110
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratellite

maybe you should read the page first, let me quote a few things from it.

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The Stratellite is a concept that has undergone several years of research and development, and is not yet commercially available; Sanswire, with its partner TAO Technologies, anticipates its current testing sequence to include the launch of a Stratellite into the stratosphere.

how can Garmon, tomtom and the other GPS companies have access to these when they are not available yet.

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A single unit could then send broadband, mobile phone and digital television and radio signals to a large area. So far, this technology remains unproven, and is very far from commercialization. A working proto-type that can perform all these functions doesn't exist.

they cant even send us radio waves, cell phones, or even TV yet, but you say they can link up and give us GPS tracking?

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Performance

    Service ceiling: 70,000 ft (21,000 m)
    Dual envelopes, made of Dyneema (sometimes called Spectra)
  Navigation: 6 onboard GPS units connected to the ship's engines
    Payload capacity: 3,000 lb (1,451 kg)
    Cruising altitude: 65,000 ft (20,000 m)
    Lifting gas: Helium and Nitrogen
    Line-of-sight: 300,000 mile² (480,000 km²)
    Maximum duration aloft: 18 months

why would it have to use GPS to track its self?

also, as with toms magically disappearing weather balloons, why don't i see these in the sky?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 06:50:09 PM by Roundy »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2011, 06:53:36 PM »
Tom, your joking right? do you not see the string hanging below it in all 4 photos. The reason why it was lit was due to its altitude, it was still in the sunlight.

Yes, I see the string. Not all high altitude balloons would necessarily have strings, though. It's a preference of the manufacturer.

Quote
Quote
The Stratellite is a concept that has undergone several years of research and development, and is not yet commercially available; Sanswire, with its partner TAO Technologies, anticipates its current testing sequence to include the launch of a Stratellite into the stratosphere.

how can Garmon, tomtom and the other GPS companies have access to these when they are not available yet.

Blimps and helium balloons have been available for a very long time. Perhaps that Stratellite™​ brand satratellite is not yet available, but high altitude dirigibles have been available for many decades.

The device in that wiki article is talking about the a certain Sanswire product called Stratellite, not stratellites.

Quote
Quote
A single unit could then send broadband, mobile phone and digital television and radio signals to a large area. So far, this technology remains unproven, and is very far from commercialization. A working proto-type that can perform all these functions doesn't exist.

they cant even send us radio waves, cell phones, or even TV yes, but you say they can link up and give us GPS tracking?

GPS is a signal like any other. There is no reason why high altitude dirigibles cannot provide GPS coverage.

GPS can even be provided by towers on the ground. Look up the Loran System.

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Quote
Performance

    Service ceiling: 70,000 ft (21,000 m)
    Dual envelopes, made of Dyneema (sometimes called Spectra)
  Navigation: 6 onboard GPS units connected to the ship's engines
    Payload capacity: 3,000 lb (1,451 kg)
    Cruising altitude: 65,000 ft (20,000 m)
    Lifting gas: Helium and Nitrogen
    Line-of-sight: 300,000 mile² (480,000 km²)
    Maximum duration aloft: 18 months

why would it have to use GPS to track its self?

There is no reason why a stratellite dedicated to broadcasting television or other signals cannot have a GPS receiver onboard.

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also, as with toms magically disappearing weather balloons, why don't i see these in the sky?

Again, they may be there, but they are either not illuminated or mistaken for stars or satellites.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 07:00:39 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2011, 07:10:02 PM »
1) ok, so you admit its a weather balloon?

2) Id still be able to see them

3) http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=38638.msg1048396#msg1048396

4) true.

5) if im looking at it though a telescope id know if it was a star or not, in fact if I could see the moons surface with said device I could tell if it was a star or not. Also you just said they may have saw a satellite. I thought those didn't exist. You also missed my link to the video.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 07:24:59 PM by Roundy »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2011, 08:30:01 AM »
1) ok, so you admit its a weather balloon?

I never said that it was not a balloon.

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2) Id still be able to see them

Assuming it was illuminated, it would be a barely discernible spec in the sky. At night there are thousands of such specs in the sky. How can you tell which are which?

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3) http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=38638.msg1048396#msg1048396

That Loran is using different frequencies than GPS is irrelevant. Both Loran and GPS are using the same triangulation technology to pinpoint a user's position.

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5) if im looking at it though a telescope id know if it was a star or not, in fact if I could see the moons surface with said device I could tell if it was a star or not. Also you just said they may have saw a satellite. I thought those didn't exist. You also missed my link to the video.

If that string wasn't there in the pictures it would just look like a tiny pale dot in the sky. You wouldn't be able to tell it from a star.

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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2011, 11:26:54 AM »
1) ok, so you admit its a weather balloon?

I never said that it was not a balloon.

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2) Id still be able to see them

Assuming it was illuminated, it would be a barely discernible spec in the sky. At night there are thousands of such specs in the sky. How can you tell which are which?

Quote
3) http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=38638.msg1048396#msg1048396

That Loran is using different frequencies than GPS is irrelevant. Both Loran and GPS are using the same triangulation technology to pinpoint a user's position.

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5) if im looking at it though a telescope id know if it was a star or not, in fact if I could see the moons surface with said device I could tell if it was a star or not. Also you just said they may have saw a satellite. I thought those didn't exist. You also missed my link to the video.

If that string wasn't there in the pictures it would just look like a tiny pale dot in the sky. You wouldn't be able to tell it from a star.

Tom, What part of a telescope don't you understand?

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/06/ufo_weather_balloon_caught_in.php

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1613090/page/4/view/collapsed/sb/6/o/all/fpart/1

http://www.ufonv.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1110

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Skeleton

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2011, 04:09:51 PM »
Over the course of 30 years of intensive study Rowbotham performed experiments which have demonstrated on numerous occasions that there is no curvature to standing water, disproving the Round Earth theory.

Numerous occasions = twice showing a flat earth (results themselves incompatible with Rowboathams own perspective theory, and on one of these occasions performed by someone who was a close personal friend of SBR and could be significantly biased) and every single other time they showed roundness.

Get with the programme, Bish.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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thefireproofmatch

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2011, 04:18:16 PM »
Well, as I recall, one of the concave-earther's main experiments was putting pieces of wood together and comparing it to the horizon:



Lining up pieces of wood is not even close to being as straight as a ray of light.

Fixed
we're expected to throw up our hands and just BELIEVE.

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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2011, 01:23:07 PM »
I think Tom ditched another topic.

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General Disarray

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2011, 05:02:30 PM »
I think Tom ditched another topic.

Yep, that's what happens when he loses.
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trig

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2011, 07:45:28 PM »
even if it was only a few hundred, on a clear day why can no one observe such balloons?

They are too far away.

So says the man that can see a beach ball at 50 kilometers with his telescope.

Is there no limit to the made-up claims you just blurt out without even checking whether they contradict each other? If you can see a beach ball at 50 km, you can also see a stratellite at 200 or 300 kilometers, or even a lot more. And if the GPS is mounted on stratellites you definitely have to have them closer than 200 kilometers from your GPS receivers or you will not be able to give altitude indications whatsoever.

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Ski

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2011, 07:55:02 PM »
With a clear envelope and/or Yehudi lights, I'd imagine a stratellite would be difficult to observe.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2011, 09:31:04 PM »
Ski mentions things like this 'Yehudi lights' and I get to spend a pleasant half hour or so chasing this down.   I love this website.    :)

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2011, 01:49:34 PM »
I think Tom ditched another topic.

I've answered your questions. A stratellite would just look like a pale nearly imperceptible dot in the night sky. There are plenty of little dots in the night sky. Look up at the sky. There are too many dots to count. You can't know which are which.

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The Knowledge

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2011, 04:46:56 PM »
I think Tom ditched another topic.

I've answered your questions. A stratellite would just look like a pale nearly imperceptible dot in the night sky. There are plenty of little dots in the night sky. Look up at the sky. There are too many dots to count. You can't know which are which.

Yes you can, some of them move. Those are your satellites. Wow, if you guys can't distinguish stars from satellites then you'll find it difficult to have your theory taken seriously.
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2011, 04:54:12 PM »
I think Tom ditched another topic.

I've answered your questions. A stratellite would just look like a pale nearly imperceptible dot in the night sky. There are plenty of little dots in the night sky. Look up at the sky. There are too many dots to count. You can't know which are which.

Yes you can, some of them move. Those are your satellites. Wow, if you guys can't distinguish stars from satellites then you'll find it difficult to have your theory taken seriously.

Planes and stratellites also move.

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markjo

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2011, 07:29:12 PM »
Planes and stratellites also move.

Not if they're simulating geostationary satellites.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2011, 10:38:31 PM »
Planes and stratellites also move.

Not if they're simulating geostationary satellites.

Point?

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The Knowledge

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2011, 05:44:30 AM »
Planes and stratellites also move.

Not if they're simulating geostationary satellites.

Point?

The point is your argument is pretty weak.
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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Roundy

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Re: Rowbotham's style of logic
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2011, 08:28:16 AM »
I think Tom ditched another topic.

I've answered your questions. A stratellite would just look like a pale nearly imperceptible dot in the night sky. There are plenty of little dots in the night sky. Look up at the sky. There are too many dots to count. You can't know which are which.

Tom, What part of a telescope don't you understand?

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/06/ufo_weather_balloon_caught_in.php

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1613090/page/4/view/collapsed/sb/6/o/all/fpart/1

http://www.ufonv.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1110