Plane on a treadmill

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11cookeaw1

Plane on a treadmill
« on: July 18, 2011, 02:55:25 AM »
As plane travels on a treadmill, both are traveling at takeoff speed, what happens.

Edit:
Lorddave raised a good point, the engine is on.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 09:49:25 AM by 11cookeaw1 »

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Lorddave

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2011, 03:09:48 AM »
A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.
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Parsifal

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2011, 04:48:31 AM »
A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

This is not necessarily true.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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berny_74

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2011, 05:04:53 AM »
A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

A plane uses a propeller or jet to produce thrust.  The wheels are either braking or freewheeling so the engine must only overcome the resistance of the wheels travelling on the treadmill.

Berny
Waiting for Thork


To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Lorddave

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2011, 05:14:40 AM »
A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

This is not necessarily true.
Like if the propeller was operational?

A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

A plane uses a propeller or jet to produce thrust.  The wheels are either braking or freewheeling so the engine must only overcome the resistance of the wheels travelling on the treadmill.

Berny
Waiting for Thork



Which is done via air movement. Yes I know. So if the engine wasn't on then the plane would do nothing but spin it's wheels.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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11cookeaw1

Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2011, 08:22:01 AM »
A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

This is not necessarily true.
Like if the propeller was operational?

A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

A plane uses a propeller or jet to produce thrust.  The wheels are either braking or freewheeling so the engine must only overcome the resistance of the wheels travelling on the treadmill.

Berny
Waiting for Thork



Which is done via air movement. Yes I know. So if the engine wasn't on then the plane would do nothing but spin it's wheels.

How does the treadmill stop the plane. How does the small amount of friction manage to overcome to huge thrust of the engines.

It doesn't, the friction is so small compared to the thrust that it does little to the plane.

The plane takes off.

Mythbusters tried it.

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Lorddave

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2011, 08:35:00 AM »
A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

This is not necessarily true.
Like if the propeller was operational?

A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

A plane uses a propeller or jet to produce thrust.  The wheels are either braking or freewheeling so the engine must only overcome the resistance of the wheels travelling on the treadmill.

Berny
Waiting for Thork



Which is done via air movement. Yes I know. So if the engine wasn't on then the plane would do nothing but spin it's wheels.

How does the treadmill stop the plane. How does the small amount of friction manage to overcome to huge thrust of the engines.

It doesn't, the friction is so small compared to the thrust that it does little to the plane.

The plane takes off.

Mythbusters tried it.

Bloody Hell, am I speaking English? What part of "if the engine is not on" do you people not understand?
Myth busters did it WITH THE ENGINE ON!!!!

If the propeller is NOT spinning when you do this it won't do anything.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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sillyrob

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2011, 08:36:06 AM »
A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

This is not necessarily true.
Like if the propeller was operational?

A treadmill is designed to allow a moving object to move while remaining stationary. Since a plane requires air movement around itself at a specific speed to generate lift then the answer is nothing.

A plane uses a propeller or jet to produce thrust.  The wheels are either braking or freewheeling so the engine must only overcome the resistance of the wheels travelling on the treadmill.

Berny
Waiting for Thork



Which is done via air movement. Yes I know. So if the engine wasn't on then the plane would do nothing but spin it's wheels.

How does the treadmill stop the plane. How does the small amount of friction manage to overcome to huge thrust of the engines.

It doesn't, the friction is so small compared to the thrust that it does little to the plane.

The plane takes off.

Mythbusters tried it.
That's a big treadmill.

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General Disarray

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2011, 09:02:14 AM »
Why would the engine not be on if the plane was trying to take off?
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Lorddave

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2011, 09:22:50 AM »
Why would the engine not be on if the plane was trying to take off?
Because the OP failed to give any details.

His very simple statement had no indication that the plane was attempting to take off, what kind of plane it was, or if the plane was even active.  I took it as a question as to if a plane on a treadmill could achieve the needed thrust to lift off from only the running treadmill.

Or to put it more simply:
His description was that of putting a glider plane with wheels on a treadmill and turning it on.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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berny_74

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2011, 03:17:46 PM »
Why would the engine not be on if the plane was trying to take off?
Because the OP failed to give any details.

His very simple statement had no indication that the plane was attempting to take off, what kind of plane it was, or if the plane was even active.  I took it as a question as to if a plane on a treadmill could achieve the needed thrust to lift off from only the running treadmill.

Or to put it more simply:
His description was that of putting a glider plane with wheels on a treadmill and turning it on.

Well if it was a glider and the treadmill was long enough and the wheel breaks where on then the treadmill could act like a catapult and launch the glider.

But generally when one talks of a plane one is not talking about a glider.

Berny
@Thork - glider trained?
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2011, 03:35:46 PM »
This is so old my grampa argued about it on the internets when he was a kid.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Lorddave

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 05:01:23 PM »
This is so old my grampa argued about it on the internets when he was a kid.
Did he use tin cans with string to get his lulz?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Trekky0623

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 11:01:50 PM »
Wheels don't propel airplanes. The treadmill has little affect. It'll take off.

And, the puzzle usually says that the treadmills goes backwards as fast as the plane goes forwards, so if the engine is off, the plane sits stationary.

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General Disarray

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2011, 11:19:17 PM »
If there is no engine, the plane would move with the treadmill, it wouldn't remain stationary.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2011, 09:29:12 AM »
If there is no engine, the plane would move with the treadmill, it wouldn't remain stationary.

Like I said, in every version of the puzzle I've heard, the treadmill only moves if the plane moves forward. Therefore, if the plane doesn't move, the treadmill doesn't move.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2011, 03:04:25 PM »
ITT: Lorddave attempts to be Parsifal.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Lorddave

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2011, 05:47:21 PM »
ITT: Lorddave attempts to be Parsifal.
False.

I don't try, I do. :P
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2011, 02:29:53 AM »
ITT: Lorddave attempts to be Parsifal.
False.

I don't try, I do. :P
Ah, but you've just disproved your own case. You see, real Parsifal would just have said "False." without providing further explanation.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Lorddave

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2011, 07:09:14 AM »
ITT: Lorddave attempts to be Parsifal.
False.

I don't try, I do. :P
Ah, but you've just disproved your own case. You see, real Parsifal would just have said "False." without providing further explanation.
Irrelevant.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Trollin-R-Us

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2011, 10:58:48 PM »
well this is going in circles

Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2011, 11:03:37 PM »
well this is going in circles

What do you mean? The OP had his question answered.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
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Pongo

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Re: Plane on a treadmill
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2011, 01:00:04 PM »
The plane takes off.  The wheels are completely independent of the engine.  You can set the treadmill to 600mph and the plane will still take off.