Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues

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Skeleton

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2011, 10:42:20 AM »
Lol @ Thorks comments about flight and planes, as if he understands it properly.

Have you considered the possibility that he is simply willfully misrepresenting what he knows?

Oh yes. My comment was designed to make him state his qualifications or lack of in the area he was using as evidence, to enable me to tell if he was genuinely ignorant or merely trolling. It turns out its the latter in this case. Im several steps ahead of him at all times.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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Thork

Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2011, 10:43:50 AM »
Lol @ Thorks comments about flight and planes, as if he understands it properly.

Have you considered the possibility that he is simply willfully misrepresenting what he knows?

Oh yes. My comment was designed to make him state his qualifications or lack of in the area he was using as evidence, to enable me to tell if he was genuinely ignorant or merely trolling. It turns out its the latter in this case. Im several steps ahead of him at all times.
I have never hidden what I do. You could have asked me any time. You didn't need to design a cunning trap. ::)

Im several steps ahead of him at all times.
Quoted 4 truth.

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Skeleton

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2011, 10:49:35 AM »
Lol @ Thorks comments about flight and planes, as if he understands it properly.

Have you considered the possibility that he is simply willfully misrepresenting what he knows?

Oh yes. My comment was designed to make him state his qualifications or lack of in the area he was using as evidence, to enable me to tell if he was genuinely ignorant or merely trolling. It turns out its the latter in this case. Im several steps ahead of him at all times.
I have never hidden what I do. You could have asked me any time. You didn't need to design a cunning trap. ::)

Im several steps ahead of him at all times.
Quoted 4 truth.

Yes, I could have asked you. I trust your word as much as you trust that of Buzz Aldrin.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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Part of the Problem

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2011, 10:59:45 AM »
But again, we don't know whether a flight from Orbitz.com or wherever will arrive on time.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think the point has more to do with how long the flight takes than whether or not arrives or leaves on time.

Those are little more than calculators based on an incorrect model of the earth.

Do you have evidence that the flight times are calculated based on a model of the earth rather than based on past history?  Seriously asking because I would think it would serve the airlines better to look at how long the flight took in the past than to calculate a flight time, regardless of the shape of the earth.
By eliminating all present contradicting possibilities you would arrive at the present truth. It's impossible to arrive at a future truth.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2011, 11:07:19 AM »
But again, we don't know whether a flight from Orbitz.com or wherever will arrive on time.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I think the point has more to do with how long the flight takes than whether or not arrives or leaves on time.

The point is we don't know whether the flight estimates on Orbitz.com will come to fruition.

You can plot a map for a road trip on Google Maps from Point A to Point B and get a travel estimate, but that data relies on the distances on the map being correct and not hitting traffic. You can't blindly say that Google Maps is accurate for all destinations on earth. You're building an estimate.  Maybe the roads have changed. Maybe a road no longer exists. You won't know what the actual time will be until you do the road trip in person.

Quote
Do you have evidence that the flight times are calculated based on a model of the earth rather than based on past history?  Seriously asking because I would think it would serve the airlines better to look at how long the flight took in the past than to calculate a flight time, regardless of the shape of the earth.

What source do you have showing that they build the estimates based on past history?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 12:30:24 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Part of the Problem

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2011, 11:11:25 AM »
Do you have evidence that the flight times are calculated based on a model of the earth rather than based on past history?  Seriously asking because I would think it would serve the airlines better to look at how long the flight took in the past than to calculate a flight time, regardless of the shape of the earth.

What source do you have showing that they build the estimates based on past history?

I didn't claim that they are built on past history.  I just stated an opinion that I think it would serve them better.  You're the one who claimed that the times are based on calculations based on incorrect models of the earth.  I was just looking to see if you had evidence to back up this claim.

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« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 11:13:05 AM by Part of the Problem »
By eliminating all present contradicting possibilities you would arrive at the present truth. It's impossible to arrive at a future truth.

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General Disarray

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2011, 11:44:36 AM »
Or, you could go to the websites of the airports in question, and track the flights as they happen to see if they arrive on time.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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berny_74

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2011, 12:22:46 PM »

I know you have not been on this site long - but you are falling down one of TB's clever traps.  He will get you so frustrated in arguing the most baseless points that in reality he's able to skip the actual points that have all been ignored.

He is actually pretty good at it - I pulled up the Quantas flights earlier but stopped posting because of previous attempts that resorted to pusher birds(Pongo), conspiracy pilots and sleeping gas(Crustinator) and Thork who takes a realistic flight plan and then keeps you in holding patterns for hours on end.

Also anything requiring historical records is automatically suspect by TB unless it proves a point he likes - he also has the ability to invoke and reject bendy light on a whim.  And using any predicting almanac is useless to him no matter what effective results are used.

Berny
Sees where this thread is going

I gave fair warning and we're now gone from the map to the logistical nightmare of flights and flight times.

Actually you plug all the details into the FMS.

It works it all out. The FMS must know the shape of the earth, but their source code is a closely guarded secret. Now you know why. That kind of info would be dynamite in the public domain. 

I assume you are not interested in TomartiniTM?
So what happens when you're cruising along at 20,000 fleet and your FSM dies?

More importantly how did they fly before the age of FSM?

And even more importantly - no matter how many documents you point out - companies using and relying on aircraft successfully manage their times and get everything going where they're supposed to.

Berny
No.  If it has tomatoes in it its a Caesar with pickles and extra Tabasco.
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Thork

Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2011, 12:27:56 PM »
So what happens when you're cruising along at 20,000 fleet and your FSM dies?
It can die? Don't even joke about something like that.  :-\

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2011, 01:26:49 PM »
Pick a flight number.  Look at it on different days.  Its always the same deperture and arrival time.  Just like a bus in a town.  It flies a route, back and forth
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Thork

Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2011, 01:39:59 PM »
Pick a flight number.  Look at it on different days.  Its always the same deperture and arrival time.  Just like a bus in a town.  It flies a route, back and forth
Because regardless of how the aircraft is doing, the pilot makes it so. Running late. Go faster. To early, slow down. No pilot wants to incur late penalties for his company. That will get you coffee and a chat with your Line manager on your day off. There won't be any biscuits. Its not that kind of meeting. >:(

Too early and you may get thrown into the hold. You are unlikely to get out on time. You were put there for being naughty.

So the speed and distances can vary wildly. The time will more than likely be the same every time as the pilot tries to ensure this, but it has contingency built in for him.

Flight times prove nothing.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2011, 01:58:14 PM »
So, while this discussion on flight times is most entertaining and a waste of time, How is the Sun able to shine all the way from the top of the map to New Zealand at the bottom during the month of June?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2011, 02:33:40 PM »
So, while this discussion on flight times is most entertaining and a waste of time, How is the Sun able to shine all the way from the top of the map to New Zealand at the bottom during the month of June?

Does the sun shine much on New Zealand during summer in the North? No. When it is summer in the North it is winter in the South and the days are very short. Vice versa when it is summer in the South.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 05:20:10 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Skeleton

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2011, 03:07:01 PM »
So, while this discussion on flight times is most entertaining and a waste of time, How is the Sun able to shine all the way from the top of the map to New Zealand at the bottom during the month of June?

Does the sun shine much on New Zealand during summer in the North? No. When it is summer in the North it is winter in the South and the days are very short. Vice versa then it is summer in the South.

I suggest you actually try plotting the areas of sunlight at different times of day and year on the map. I think you will find it gives some surprisingly impossible patterns. I notice you have not yet addressed the problem of how the sun gets from the west side of the map to the east side while still travelling at the same speed it did during the rest of the day. Because thats a real corker of a problem, and a solution is beyond you.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2011, 03:24:35 PM »
Quote
I suggest you actually try plotting the areas of sunlight at different times of day and year on the map. I think you will find it gives some surprisingly impossible patterns.

Where do you suppose I get this daylight data from, the false Round Earth model?

Quote
I notice you have not yet addressed the problem of how the sun gets from the west side of the map to the east side while still travelling at the same speed it did during the rest of the day. Because thats a real corker of a problem, and a solution is beyond you.

I never described the sun as teleporting from one side of the map to the other. The sun is circling around the North Pole for six months out of the year and then it circles the South Pole for six months out of the year, thus giving us our seasons.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 03:31:23 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2011, 03:26:21 PM »
Your only explanation for airlines crossing 40,000km in 12 hours is its a conspiracy?  Are you implying that a 747 can fly 3333 km/h?



i now consider 40,000 a published figure.  It was published on this site for peer review by FE theorists and it was not disputed.

And no, I did not type that with a straight face
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 03:28:13 PM by Theodolite »
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2011, 03:27:05 PM »
Your only explanation for airlines crossing 40,000km in 12 hours is its a conspiracy?

Who said that?

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2011, 03:29:03 PM »
Your only explanation for airlines crossing 40,000km in 12 hours is its a conspiracy?

Who said that?

Please try and keep up, its not a complicated thread


Pick a flight number.  Look at it on different days.  Its always the same deperture and arrival time.  Just like a bus in a town.  It flies a route, back and forth
Because regardless of how the aircraft is doing, the pilot makes it so. Running late. Go faster. To early, slow down. No pilot wants to incur late penalties for his company. That will get you coffee and a chat with your Line manager on your day off. There won't be any biscuits. Its not that kind of meeting. >:(

Too early and you may get thrown into the hold. You are unlikely to get out on time. You were put there for being naughty.

So the speed and distances can vary wildly. The time will more than likely be the same every time as the pilot tries to ensure this, but it has contingency built in for him.

Flight times prove nothing.

Your deliberately unobservant reply is not worth an entire post in reply
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 03:32:39 PM by Theodolite »
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2011, 03:29:37 PM »
Your only explanation for airlines crossing 40,000km in 12 hours is its a conspiracy?

Who said that?

Please try and keep up, its not a complicated thread


Pick a flight number.  Look at it on different days.  Its always the same deperture and arrival time.  Just like a bus in a town.  It flies a route, back and forth
Because regardless of how the aircraft is doing, the pilot makes it so. Running late. Go faster. To early, slow down. No pilot wants to incur late penalties for his company. That will get you coffee and a chat with your Line manager on your day off. There won't be any biscuits. Its not that kind of meeting. >:(

Too early and you may get thrown into the hold. You are unlikely to get out on time. You were put there for being naughty.

So the speed and distances can vary wildly. The time will more than likely be the same every time as the pilot tries to ensure this, but it has contingency built in for him.

Flight times prove nothing.

I didn't see anything about a conspiracy mentioned.

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berny_74

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2011, 03:35:54 PM »
So what happens when you're cruising along at 20,000 fleet and your FSM dies?
It can die? Don't even joke about something like that.  :-\

Everything can die....  What if you run out of gas - does the little air-turbine power that on top of all the avionics?

@Theodolite
Didn't I just warn you about TB sucking you in?

Berny
Don't you subscribe to the Boyscout motto while flying - be prepared for everything?
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2011, 03:44:48 PM »
The following places, which contain educated people who are capable of telling if it is day or night, are reporting daylight at this moment.

The area with the lines through it are dark at the moment

The lines are rough, but I am sure you are smart enough to tell what it is



July 17, 2011    1545 PDT
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 04:10:50 PM by Theodolite »
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2011, 03:47:49 PM »
The following places, which contain educated people who are capable of telling if it is day or night, are reporting daylight at this moment.

Really? Who are they reporting to? Are people calling you and telling you about the position of the sun or the amount of daylight they are receiving?

How did you come up with those lines anyway, from a false Round Earth model?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 03:49:49 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2011, 03:48:58 PM »
The following places, which contain educated people who are capable of telling if it is day or night, are reporting daylight at this moment.

Really? Who are they reporting to? Are people calling you and telling you about the position of the sun or the amount of daylight they are receiving?

Before we get into the topic of sources, I think you still havent answered who drew this map, and what data they used


I just heard Shao Khan say "Finish Him!"


As we are all scientists here, and we know you can only disprove theories, find me any data that contradicts my information, and publish it here for review.  I guaranty that every city within those areas report the conditions I am implying.


BTW, this is how science is done.  Kind of the opposite of how you guys operate.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 04:09:52 PM by Theodolite »
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Skeleton

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2011, 05:23:02 PM »
Quote
I suggest you actually try plotting the areas of sunlight at different times of day and year on the map. I think you will find it gives some surprisingly impossible patterns.

Where do you suppose I get this daylight data from, the false Round Earth model?

Quote
I notice you have not yet addressed the problem of how the sun gets from the west side of the map to the east side while still travelling at the same speed it did during the rest of the day. Because thats a real corker of a problem, and a solution is beyond you.

I never described the sun as teleporting from one side of the map to the other. The sun is circling around the North Pole for six months out of the year and then it circles the South Pole for six months out of the year, thus giving us our seasons.

Get sunrise and set times from meterological web sites around the internet. It is public domain information and furthermore is 100% accurate. My friend who is a keen photographer frequently does this, wherever he is in the world, to find sunset times for photographic purposes. There is also ephemeris info which will tell you exactly where on the horizon the sun will rise and set, and if you could ever be bothered to plot that on your map I would love to see how you explain it.

Of course you didnt describe the sun teleporting, that would be an admission that your model is rubbish. Imagine the scenario... it is the 21st of September and someone in the pacific on the equator is watching the sun set in the west. The sun is sinking at the normal sun speed... but wait! Wait! The Japanese need to see it rising in just a minute! Hells bells, its on the wrong side of the disc! Quick somebody, drag it round to the other side of the earth so the eastern countries can see it!
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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trig

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2011, 05:27:02 PM »
The following places, which contain educated people who are capable of telling if it is day or night, are reporting daylight at this moment.

The area with the lines through it are dark at the moment

Speaking of intelligent people, don't you think people from Australia would tell the rest of the world that the only compasses that work there look like this?



As I think you already mentioned, North and East are not perpendicular, but you may not have seen how non-perpendicular they are.

And the situation is almost as bad in the West Coast of the USA, where Tom Bishop says he lives.

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Skeleton

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2011, 05:32:11 PM »
quote author=EnigmaZV link=topic=30588.msg762220#msg762220 date=1249099444]
To be honest, I'm not a big supporter of that geographic model anyway, but I lack the time and computer skills to do an animation of my own.

If I recall, he likes the idea that Antarctica as a continent exists, which isn't such a bad idea.  Here are a few rough animations of the sun's orbit:



Note that this is simply an azimuthal projection and does not accurately represent the Flat Earth or the orbit of the sun.
[/quote]

Eat that, Bishop.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2011, 05:35:54 PM »
Dont forget, there needs to be a massive indent at the north or south end, depending on where winter is  (similar to my rough sketch)
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #87 on: July 16, 2011, 03:32:12 AM »
Actually i'm with Tom on this one. He finally managed to explain that huge mountain of ice in the pacific ocean, near equator. That one has been confusing me for years.
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Beyond the rays of the sun the waters surrounding the earth will naturally freeze.


I believe it's the same icewall, which sank the Titanic in 1997.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 03:38:16 AM by Syntax »

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Nolhekh

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #88 on: July 16, 2011, 04:36:34 AM »
So, while this discussion on flight times is most entertaining and a waste of time, How is the Sun able to shine all the way from the top of the map to New Zealand at the bottom during the month of June?

Does the sun shine much on New Zealand during summer in the North? No. When it is summer in the North it is winter in the South and the days are very short. Vice versa then it is summer in the South.

I never said summer.  Please reread my post.

So, how does the Sun shine in new Zealand during its winter, when the sun is on the opposite side of the Earth?  I'm sure we would have heard of a 6 month period of total darkness.  Especially for the seamen who sailed that ocean during the second world war...  such as my grandfather?  Or even people who may have flown to such countries such as Thork, or Wardogg?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 04:40:27 AM by Nolhekh »

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2011, 06:55:29 AM »
I think we can safely assume that Thork doesnt travel far from his home town.

Failing to understand the shape of the earth is kind of a career stopper
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you