Helping a Brainwashed

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AbdulAziz

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Helping a Brainwashed
« on: July 09, 2011, 12:43:31 PM »
Suppose I was brainwashed by religion and now I am believing in one Almighty God.

Please, can you prove me that Almighty God doesn't exists using logic.

:)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2011, 12:49:16 PM »
Can you prove that a fairies, unicorns, magic dragons, and Santa Clause do not exist?  Can you prove Thor does not exist?

You cannot prove a negative like you are asking.  But there is no more reason to believe in God as there is to believe in magic dragons.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2011, 12:50:57 PM »
So you are admitting you cannot at least come up with 1 evidence that he doesn't exists!

Poor the BRAINWASHED!!! :)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Lorddave

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2011, 12:53:56 PM »
Suppose I was brainwashed by religion and now I am believing in one Almighty God.

Please, can you prove me that Almighty God doesn't exists using logic.

:)
God Defies logic and reason.
Emotion defies logic and reason.
God is an Emotion.
Therefore, God is not a real entity but a product of our own emotions.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Felix (R)

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2011, 12:58:14 PM »
Suppose I was brainwashed by religion and now I am believing in one Almighty God.

Please, can you prove me that Almighty God doesn't exists using logic.

:)

I have already proposed a question which you have failed to answer some four five times.   True, two of them were slightly off topic,  The one attempt you made was a link to one of the most poorest representations of Islam I have ever viewed.  You prevaricate constantly .  How many threads are you going to make today without addressing people who post.  You pick and chose what you respond to.  First it was ''I am going to prove allahs existence'' now its ''prove to me he doesnt''.  Theres no need for another thread if you would have just responded to what was being askes and said.  Instead you posted very long little bits of nothing, and cute stories we have all heard before. 

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2011, 01:01:52 PM »
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God Defies logic and reason.
Emotion defies logic and reason.
God is an Emotion.
Therefore, God is not a real entity but a product of our own emotions.

Thanks for the answer however can you explain How god defies Logic and reason!

How is God is an emotion?

Proofs?

Felix:
:)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Thork

Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2011, 01:18:07 PM »
And you are not brainwashed? Who told you about Allah? Did he appear to you and introduce himself. Or were you exposed to Islam from your parents, your schools, your community? Were you taught about and given the option to be say Jewish, or Catholic?

How fortunate were you, to be born into the true religion. That the rest us will be damned because we weren't born to Islamic families. You lucky, lucky man. Eternal happiness will be yours, because you weren't born white or black or in the far east. You are the chosen race. Better than all others. Allah's chosen people. And the rest of us will perish.

Or maybe, just maybe, that whole heap of codswallop was made up 1400 years ago by primitive middle eastern tribes who thought they were better than everyone else and nothing has changed since. ::)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 01:24:56 PM by Thork »

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2011, 01:29:58 PM »
Stop taking the bait, pls.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2011, 02:29:50 PM »
Carl Sagan answers:


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Lorddave

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2011, 04:54:45 PM »
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God Defies logic and reason.
Emotion defies logic and reason.
God is an Emotion.
Therefore, God is not a real entity but a product of our own emotions.

Thanks for the answer however can you explain How god defies Logic and reason!

How is God is an emotion?

Proofs?

Felix:
:)
Sure.
Is God sentient?  Yes. 
Can he ever make a mistake?  No.
Logically he can't be sentient because all sentient beings make mistakes at some point.

Or how about this:
All things have a beginning. 
God doesn't have a beginning.  God has always existed. 
This is a logical paradox.

Or...
All things in the universe obey the same laws of nature.
God doesn't obey the laws of nature.
Again, this is illogical.

Or...
Everything in the universe, with enough time, can be understood.
God can't be understood.
Again, logical contradiction.

Or...
God is all knowing and merciful.  God wants all his "creations" to worship him.  God even has unlimited power to talk to humans.
God does not talk to humans except a very small few (by few I mean 10-20 out of every human who ever existed.).
So, God wants us all to believe and worship it AND could speak to all of us at the same time yet chooses to only speak to a few and tells them to tell everyone else. 
This is an unreasonable expectation.  It would be like me telling you that God wants you to do. 
Oh... he's talking to me....  He says... that you have chosen a false prophet and should repent.
Again, this is an unreasonable request.  You wouldn't believe me now would you?

God punishes us for asking for evidence yet expects us to follow a man who had seizures and spoke as though he were channeling God's voice.
God also has multiple followers with multiple religions all serving "God" and multiple stories.  Yet God does not remove anyone nor set the record straight.  But if you're wrong (whichever religion is right) then you are tortured eternally.

Logic dictates that if 5 people all tell you a story that's different and that story supposedly came from the same being (God) then all stories are likely false.

Need more?
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2011, 11:09:46 PM »

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And you are not brainwashed? Who told you about Allah? Did he appear to you and introduce himself. Or were you exposed to Islam from your parents, your schools, your community? Were you taught about and given the option to be say Jewish, or Catholic?

How fortunate were you, to be born into the true religion. That the rest us will be damned because we weren't born to Islamic families. You lucky, lucky man. Eternal happiness will be yours, because you weren't born white or black or in the far east. You are the chosen race. Better than all others. Allah's chosen people. And the rest of us will perish.

Well I told you, I was brainwashed and I started to believe that I was truly brainwashed, so I am seeking for help, seeking for someone to prove me that the Perfect God doesn’t exists, because when I tell the people who were brainwashed like myself they proof me wrong so I get brainwashed again, is there really any hope to help me!?

You see we brainwashed we were taught by our (Self believed God) that we are to help other people realize that God exists, there is life after death, we were asked to guide those who are misguided so I felt sorry for those who really are learned and have far more knowledge than myself yet they can’t believe in the existence of God. I asked myself is it really that hard to believe he exists, but you people proved me its really hard, so I came to realize that I was brainwashed, now I want to help my fellow brainwashed ppl but I have nothing to prove that what I am saying is correct and what they are saying is wrong :)

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Logically he can't be sentient because all sentient beings make mistakes at some point.

Oh can you tell me which God you are talking about? Because the god those who were brainwashed are talking is something different, to them their God can’t be compared to other things, the moment you think you possibly compare God with something then you are not talking about the Muslim God but maybe talking about Jesus, Zeus or whatever but you are not talking about Allah.

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All things in the universe obey the same laws of nature.
God doesn't obey the laws of nature.
Again, this is illogical.
Now I know where the confusion is is coming from, the brainwashed defined God in a different way you guys are defining God. So you are considering God is In the universe and should obey the law of nature! LordDave if someone told you that you can fly, teleport, kill people instantly by your mind and you really existed! But we know all other things can’t do like what you can do! Should we deny your existence just because you can do things or have different nature than us? Remember I am supposing you are existing! Would it be logical to say you don’t exists just because the difference in qualities and attributes! Hmmm interesting!

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Logic dictates that if 5 people all tell you a story that's different and that story supposedly came from the same being (God) then all stories are likely false.

But what if all the 5 people said the same story, would you consider that story to be true? Just asking  ::)
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2011, 11:24:35 PM »
I wonder if that God doesn't exists why more than 4 Billions are saying that the God they believe in has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists! They claim God has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact that God does exists. History can prove those messengers existed!! Miracles of prophets and messengers of God have come to people through the ages. How come a book that existed 1400 years back and the predictions and prophecies of that book have come true even in this century! is there another book written by human includes such as the Quran? If no then maybe I understand why we are brainwashed!
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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Jie

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2011, 11:57:43 PM »
I wonder if that God doesn't exists why more than 4 Billions are saying that the God they believe in has sent down miracles, revelations and messengers to give clear proofs He exists!

There are also millions if not billiions of people that believe in Santa Clause, who can miraculously enter millions of houses in a single night to leave an assortment of gifts (but there's a catch... you have to be nice or he won't come).

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They claim God has sent prophets and messengers with many proofs throughout the ages for people to be able to clearly see with their own eyes and to be able to use their own senses the miracles and proofs pointing to the fact that God does exists.

Agreed, indeed they do claim that. However, their proofs don't seem to hold up.

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History can prove those messengers existed!! Miracles of prophets and messengers of God have come to people through the ages.

True, history can show evidence that some of these messengers existed. Oddly enough, history doesn't do the same for the miracles themselves. Strange, that.

 
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How come a book that existed 1400 years back and the predictions and prophecies of that book have come true even in this century!

You'll have to elaborate on that. Anyway, the Christians seem to be claiming the same thing, and they were here first.

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is there another book written by human includes such as the Quran?

You mean in terms of predictions? Ever heard of a dude called Nostradamus? I've heard he also wrote a book that makes some predictions.
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow, a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it's called the present" -- Master Oogway, from Kung Fu Panda

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AbdulAziz

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2011, 01:37:44 AM »
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There are also millions if not billiions of people that believe

Are there among them any who use logic and reasoning!? I mean among the 4 Billions!

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Agreed, indeed they do claim that. However, their proofs don't seem to hold up.

Their logical proof at least was accepted by most normal people, why most people find it easy to believe what the Prophets said and find it hard to believe the complicated theories the Atheists are coming up with :)

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True, history can show evidence that some of these messengers existed. Oddly enough, history doesn't do the same for the miracles themselves. Strange, that.

Wrong claim, do you know anything about "Knowledge Of Hadith" (علم الحديث) if for example 100 from UAE saw the moon split, 100 from USA saw the moon split, 100 from Egypt saw the moon split, 100 from Italy saw the moon split....etc and they said exactly the same thing and gave exactly the same description there is no way that would be a lie, this is what happened to most of Prophet Mohammed's Hadiths

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You'll have to elaborate on that.

Read this

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23589.msg499113#msg499113

Quote
You mean in terms of predictions? Ever heard of a dude called Nostradamus? I've heard he also wrote a book that makes some predictions.

Yes but no way it includes what the Quran includes, the reason for my claim can be justified after reading more than thousands of Quran irrefutable miracles
"And say, `All praise belongs to ALLAH; HE will soon show you HIS Signs, and you will know them.' And thy Lord is not unaware of what you do."

"Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? "
(Translations of Allah's Words)

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PizzaPlanet

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2011, 01:47:29 AM »
all sentient beings make mistakes at some point.
What?

All things have a beginning.
Huh?

All things in the universe obey the same laws of nature.
When and how did you verify this?

Everything in the universe, with enough time, can be understood.
Evidence?
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

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Lorddave

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2011, 06:45:40 AM »
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Logically he can't be sentient because all sentient beings make mistakes at some point.
Oh can you tell me which God you are talking about? Because the god those who were brainwashed are talking is something different, to them their God can’t be compared to other things, the moment you think you possibly compare God with something then you are not talking about the Muslim God but maybe talking about Jesus, Zeus or whatever but you are not talking about Allah.
I'm talking about your God.  You wanted me to tell you why it doesn't make sense and I am.  And if you're going to tell me that your God isn't sentient then I can say that he isn't all merciful either since that's a comparison as well is it not?

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Quote
All things in the universe obey the same laws of nature.
God doesn't obey the laws of nature.
Again, this is illogical.
Now I know where the confusion is is coming from, the brainwashed defined God in a different way you guys are defining God. So you are considering God is In the universe and should obey the law of nature! LordDave if someone told you that you can fly, teleport, kill people instantly by your mind and you really existed! But we know all other things can’t do like what you can do! Should we deny your existence just because you can do things or have different nature than us? Remember I am supposing you are existing! Would it be logical to say you don’t exists just because the difference in qualities and attributes! Hmmm interesting!
Well first off, if I could do those things I would show everyone in the world, not just a few people.  Then I'd ask the scientists to figure out how I can do these things.  But since your God can't be understood ever, then such tests are impossible for it.

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Logic dictates that if 5 people all tell you a story that's different and that story supposedly came from the same being (God) then all stories are likely false.
But what if all the 5 people said the same story, would you consider that story to be true? Just asking  ::)
I probably would, unless someone said otherwise.
Since the world isn't ruled by one single religion, then it's clear that is not the case isn't it?
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Lorddave

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2011, 06:49:11 AM »
all sentient beings make mistakes at some point.
What?
It's called Learning.

Quote
All things have a beginning.
Huh?
It is illogical to assume that something has always existed.  I never said it was impossible.  It simply defies reason.

Quote
All things in the universe obey the same laws of nature.
When and how did you verify this?
The Universe is Nature.  Anything in the Universe is part of nature.  Therefore, all things must obey the laws of nature.  The laws may bend and twist based on various factors, but you aren't going to have a meteor hit the Earth and decrease it's Entropy.

Quote
Everything in the universe, with enough time, can be understood.
Evidence?
If all things are part of the Universe and the Universe's natural laws never change, then all things have a pattern, however complex.  If that's the case then with enough time, it can be learned and understood.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Tausami

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2011, 07:09:16 AM »
How about that the Bible and Quran both say things that have been disproven, and that one shouldn't believe things that have no proof?

Here's a question: disprove Greek mythology. Obviously it's wrong, but disprove it.

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Crustinator

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2011, 08:36:22 AM »
Please, can you prove me that Almighty God doesn't exists using logic.

Can't prove a negative. You bin already told 47437 times.

/thrad

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Jie

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2011, 09:59:16 AM »
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There are also millions if not billiions of people that believe

Are there among them any who use logic and reasoning!? I mean among the 4 Billions!

You fail (unsurprisingly, given your post history) to see my point. The number of people who believe something has no bearing on whether it is true or not. In other words, the fact that billions of people believe in gods cannot be taken as evidence that gods exist.

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Agreed, indeed they do claim that. However, their proofs don't seem to hold up.

Their logical proof at least was accepted by most normal people, why most people find it easy to believe what the Prophets said and find it hard to believe the complicated theories the Atheists are coming up with :)

Throughout history there have been many instances where the majority  of people have accepted ideas that have later turned out to be wrong. By the way, what do you mean by "complicated theories the Atheists are coming up with"? I cannot properly respond until you clarify this.

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Quote
True, history can show evidence that some of these messengers existed. Oddly enough, history doesn't do the same for the miracles themselves. Strange, that.

Wrong claim, do you know anything about "Knowledge Of Hadith" (علم الحديث) if for example 100 from UAE saw the moon split, 100 from USA saw the moon split, 100 from Egypt saw the moon split, 100 from Italy saw the moon split....etc and they said exactly the same thing and gave exactly the same description there is no way that would be a lie, this is what happened to most of Prophet Mohammed's Hadiths

I find your argument to be absurd in the extreme. First, the USA didn't even exist at the time the event supposedly took place. Second, even among Muslims there is debate on whether the event described already happened or whether it refers to a future event, mainly because of the lack of contemporary witnesses. See here: link
Specifically:
Quote
Here is a passage from 'The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam'
by Cyril Glasse on the above subject:

    There are no contemporary accounts of such an event. It is far more likely that the Koran is speaking allegorically of a sign of the Last Day, rather than of a miracle.  (page 274).

Anyway, I couldn't find ant reference to those groups of 100 witnesses from different countries that you mention. Please include your source, or I'll have to dismiss your claim as bare assertion.

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Quote
You'll have to elaborate on that.

Read this

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=23589.msg499113#msg499113

Don't just send me to another long post of yours that doesn't even address my question. I find it rude!  >:(

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You mean in terms of predictions? Ever heard of a dude called Nostradamus? I've heard he also wrote a book that makes some predictions.

Yes but no way it includes what the Quran includes, the reason for my claim can be justified after reading more than thousands of Quran irrefutable miracles

Well, of course it doesn't. It's a different book!  ::) By the way, if you want to convince me that the miracles in your book are irrefutable, you'll have to show me contemporary evidence for them that comes from sources external to your book. Otherwise I'll consider them refuted by lack of support.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 10:01:26 AM by Jie »
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow, a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it's called the present" -- Master Oogway, from Kung Fu Panda

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Tausami

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2011, 10:10:42 AM »
I assume that by "the complicated theories that atheists are coming up with" you mean science. If so, I recommend that you read up on the scientific method. We accept things because they've been proven using that method.

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sillyrob

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2011, 10:21:15 AM »
What's the point in even arguing with a Christfag, or as of late, a Muhammedfag?

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Tausami

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2011, 10:46:42 AM »
What's the point in even arguing with a Christfag, or as of late, a Muhammedfag?

It makes the board more interesting. Besides, letting him play missionary makes him feel special.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2011, 10:58:46 AM »
Only if you haven't been here long enough to read all of it several times.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2011, 11:01:35 AM »
Yeah, but it's like old episodes of Top Gear, you've seen them a hundred times and you still get angry every time Clarkson slanders Birmingham but you love them anyway.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2011, 11:05:25 AM »
It would be interesting if he actually debated. 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Thork

Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2011, 11:28:53 AM »
Speaking of which a new episode of Top Gear starts in half an hour. I may make a Top Gear thread. ... after Top Gear of course.

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Crustinator

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2011, 04:32:06 PM »
What's the point in even arguing with a Christfag, or as of late, a Muhammedfag (peace be upon him)?

Fixed for reverence.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2011, 08:23:11 PM »
No one has come up with one good reason for Abdul yet.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?

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Jie

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Re: Helping a Brainwashed
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2011, 09:57:29 PM »
No one has come up with one good reason for Abdul yet.

Are you saying that no one has been able to prove a negative?  ???
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow, a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it's called the present" -- Master Oogway, from Kung Fu Panda